xxXRandyyXxx Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 The brake fluid isn't reaching my rear brakes. There is no cank in the brake line or anything. The rear brakes dont work at all, i have pushed the pedal as far as she goes, and the rotor still turns by hand with NO problem. The ABS light on the dash is on. If anyone has experienced this problem or can help me out please responde. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patgizz Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 have you pulled a line off to see if fluid is getting there? these rear calipers suck horribly and like to freeze up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxXRandyyXxx Posted May 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 i have never taken off the brake line, but i did lubricate the calipers REALLY good, so they should be fine, but i am almost 100% positive the brake fluid isnt getting there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 by lubricate calipers, you mean the sliders/pins move very freely? Maybe the piston is siezed? is that even possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxXRandyyXxx Posted May 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 it is possible that the piston seized, but if no brake fluid is reaching the calipers, there is also a major problem before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patgizz Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 pull a freakin brake line already. you can't tell if fluid is getting there without it, could very well have a seized piston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subceng Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 if you have the rear calipers siezed you should still get fluid to the bleeders, the pistons would not move but you should have fliud to try to get them to move, this sounds like master cylinder does your pedal go all the way to the floor when you try to bleed them or does it stop half way down? it may be the fronts are pressured up and not allowing full flow to the rears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 First, what kind of car, engine, year you have? Can you still turn the rear rotors while someone presses the brake pedal and engine is OFF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crc Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 Probably a problem with master cylinder like someone suggested, especially considering you're getting an ABS code.. E-brake might also need adjusting.. For fluid check just loosen the bleeder screw a bit on the caliper and see if any brake fluid squeezes out after applying a bit of the pedal. And the internals of the calipers themselves DON'T suck.. It's just the damn sliders.. The calipers are actually very durable and can be refurbished fairly inexpensivley with a kit.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 4, 2003 Report Share Posted May 4, 2003 The biggest reason why I took my stock rotors out was because Ive always had back luck and a piss poor time with getting the piston seated when putting new pads in. Sometimes using the spanner tool and turning the piston worked, most times it didn't. A couple of times I forced it in with a C-clamp. One time I had a piston pop out! The GM book wants me to remove the parking brake cable and bracket, it probably would help, but that's a lot of work involved. The sliders I never had a problem with because I used alloy ones. Matter of fact I just put my old calipers and sliders on my sister's '93. The 94+ piston doesn't give a single problem. Also the sliders don't give any problem, and it's just 1 11mm bolt to remove and the caliper swings up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crc Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 ...was because Ive always had back luck and a piss poor time with getting the piston seated when putting new pads in. Sometimes using the spanner tool and turning the piston worked, most times it didn't. A couple of times I forced it in with a C-clamp. One time I had a piston pop out! Remove the parking brake bracket? oh no.... Do that and you'll need to bleed the line.. never mind it will get messy.. And the pistons on the rears can pop out if nothing stops them once they go out far enough.. you'll have to watch that whenever you are bleeding.. Putting them back in is an excercise in teeth grinding.. you have to contend with the main internal seal. Now, having that GM tool for seating the Rear calipers makes a world of difference. I haven't had any problems borrowing one for free from a local parts store as long as a I paid a refundable security deposit. The other solutiion is pliers, which can easily damage the face of the piston if you're not careful. If you ARE using the tool set and you're still having problems seating the piston than my friend you have other problem(s). Maybe it's time for a cliper refurbishing. For the Fronts all you need is a clamp and some hardwood. I sometimes open up the bleeder screw and that let's me just use my thumb to push the pistons back in and it takes just a couple of seconds (just make sure you have a hose and container with brake fluid all hooked up otherwise you risk reintroducing air) The front calipers are almost industructable, as they should be considering they're doing most of the work. I've come across one's caked with rust, neglected, boots shredded and they still work like clockwork. The rears need hell'va lot more babying. I check them every 4 months.. doesn't matter what kind of expensive pads, rotors, brake lines, or gimmicks installed.. check all corners every 4 months and/or anytime you obviously notice anything while braking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 yeah Ive never had a problem with the fronts. I usually use the old pad instead of the piece of wood if I dont need the pads anymore. and about that special tool, I got ahold of one when I did my sisters rear brakes on friday. It did work pretty well except there's a lock ring on that plate (shaped like a brake pad) that kept binding up on the caliper, but other than that it worked. The '94 rear pistons can be turned in extremely easy. I used pliers gently on the piston (couldnt find my tool) it went right in, no effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crc Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 I don't know but I like the feeling of driving something that has brakes I know I touched, put together and worked on. I almost had a serious accident years ago with my first car after I took it to a local shop for brake work. Damn thing lost pressure for about 9 seconds going down this mountain side road (what timing, just my luck) and I remember just about pissing my pants when I felt the pedal come around again. They would've probably been scraping me off the side of the escarpment if things turned out any other way. Haven't had my brakes done in a shop ever since. An overreaction? maybe.. you should've been in that car though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 I know the feeling. I also know the feeling of not watching the repair being made to your car, making sure they did everything properly, etc especially with brakes. Ive done the brakes on my car since I got it at 16. The shop only put on rear struts for me when I first got it, and didn't know how to do them (like 2nd nature now), and I had a family member get the power steering pressure line in (no time to do it)...so what caused the brake failure? Did you call up the shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted May 5, 2003 Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 Could be master cylinder and could be ABS problem. The main purpose of the ABS is to prevent the wheel from locking up. During normal ABS operation (assuming everything was fine), the ABS will monitor the wheel speed and when it thinks that the rear wheel is going to lock up, it will engage a solenoid to minimize/block fluid pressure to the rear and hoping it prevent the wheel from locking up and gradually will disengage the solenoid when the wheel is out of lock up situation. It's possible that the ABS is malfunctioning and has left the solenoid engaged and preventing the fluid to go to the rear. So Does the rear rotor rotate when someone presses the brake while the engine is OFF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxXRandyyXxx Posted May 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2003 I did try leaving the car off and turning the rotors while pressing the brakes. Still moved no problem. Does anyone know if in the master cylinder, 1 resavoir does rear brakes and the other does the front? Or does one do left front/back and the other front/back? Cause I am hoping to eliminate replacing the master cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subceng Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 the master cylinder is split front /back, the bleeding sequence should be start with the furthest away or longer line and work your way back. you can get bleeder kits that pressure up the line from the bleeder to the master cylinder but can be expensive. one thing you may try is to open the front bleeder on one wheel and leave it open, have a hose on the bleeder going into a bottle to catch the fluid. then bleed the backs to see if it is really pumping the fluid to the back calipers, if it works and the back brakes work, then bleed the fronts make sure you have a full reservoir at all times in both chambers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 The master cylinder is split diagonally, one for the right front and left rear, one for left front and right rear, if that's what you meant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted May 6, 2003 Report Share Posted May 6, 2003 I am assuming you have this car 1989 Oldsmobile supreme inter with disc brakes both front and rear. If you have the 1989 Oldsmobile supreme inter then your ABS is Delco Moraine III or called Delco Powermaster III. This ABS system is also used in 1989 through 1991 Buick Regal, Olds Cutlass and Pontiac Gran Prix. Follow this procedure for your ABS Delco Moraine III or called Delco Powermaster III equipped brake system. System pressure relief: Due to the high pressure in this system, the system pressure must be relieved before disconnecting any hydraulic lines. Make sure the ignition key is in the Off position, press the brake pedal firmly as far as it will go at least 40 times. 1. Relieve the system pressure. 2. With the ignition Off, be sure the fluid reservoir is full. 3. Connect a clear hose to the bleeder valve on the right front brake caliper and submerge the other end of the hose in a container of brake fluid. Open the bleeder valve. 4. Have an assistan slowly depress the brake pedal. As the fluid flows from the caliper, tap on the caliper housing to free trapped air. 5. Close the bleeder valve and have the assitant release the brake pedal. 6. Repeat this step until air is no longer seen in the hose. 7. Repeat this procedure for the left front caliper. 8. Before bleeding the rear brakes, turn the Ignition ON and allow the pump motor to charge the system. The pump motor should stop running within one minute. 9. With the reservoir full, connect the hose to the bleeder valve on the right rear caliper and submerge the other end of the hose in a container of clean blake fluid. 10. Open the bleeder valve. 11. Have an assistant slowly depress the brake pedal, part way only. Allow the fluid to flow for 15 seconds, while lightly tapping on the caliper housing to free trapped air. 12. Close the bleeder valve and have the assistant release the brake pedal. 13. Repeat this step until air is no longer seen in the hose. 14. Check the brake fluid level, then repeat this procedure from the left rear caliper. 15. Once all the calipers have been bled, the isolation valves on the ABS unit should be bled. Connect the bleeder hose to the inner side of the ABS unit and submerge the other end in the container of clean brake fluid. With the Ignition still ON, have an assistant apply light pressure to the brake pedal. Slowly open the bleeder valve and allow the fluid to flow until no more air bubbles are seen. 16. Repeat this procedure to the bleeder valve on the outer side of the unit. 17. Depressurize the system and check the brake fluid, adding as necessary. 18. Before turning the key On, sharply apply the brake pedal three times, using full force. 19. Turn the Ignition key On and allow the pump motor to run. When the motor stops, turn the key Off. Note: If the pumps runs for more than 60 seconds, check the brake fluid level and look for leaks. 20. Depress the brake pedal, using moderate pressure, then turn the ignition key On for three seconds. Repeat this procedure ten (10) times. 21. Depressurize the system and recheck the fluid level. Link that you might want to look at http://www.vtr.org/maintain/brake-bleeding.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxXRandyyXxx Posted May 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted May 7, 2003 I'd like to thank everyone for all their thoughts and replies, this weekend i am totally dedicated to getting these fuckin brakes working. I will try eveything and anything everyone has said. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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