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Aluminum Cradle...Swap?


RJansen658

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Today I went to the junk yard to find a better cradle.... Mine didn't look to good, and I was forced to flex around the lower control arm brackets when I changed the bushings. I scoured the junk yard only to find that most of the cradles weren't much better than my own. So I am left with two options as I see it....

 

Option 1: Get my cradle acid dipped, and then either powdercoated or epoxycoated. Or Epoxycoat myself.

 

Option 2: Upgrade! Not sure if its possible, but could I use an aluminum cradle from a newer w-body? My Lumina is a 93', would an aluminum cradle bolt right up?

 

I want to go aluminum. But I need more info first.... has this been done before? What year did GM start putting aluminum cradles into w-bodies? Is it a bolt in upgrade? I assume I would need the lower control arms, and possibly the rack and pinion as well. With my current cradle the rack is bolted directly to it, is it the same on the newer aluminum cradles? And also, if it is the same, would the coupler for the steering column shaft be the same size?

 

I didn't think about the aluminum cradle while I was there, and they didn't have many newer w-bodies anyways, so I didn't really get the chance to inspect one for myself. Hopefully someone on the forum has done this, or has a car with an aluminum cradle and would be willing to collaborate some information with me. I am pretty sure that they didn't start using aluminum until at least 97' because I was looking at some 96' Lumina's and Monte's, none of them had aluminum.

 

Also just some random info.... I saw an Oldsmobile Aurora and the console shifter handle had a performance shift button built into it! I am going to research it further, but it will greatly improve the "custom look" for those who are doing L67 swaps since most older w-bodies didn't have the performance shift option and it is gained when you do the swap (as long as you use a PCM that supports it). It appeared the shift handle was a direct swap, but I didn't like the trim, and the handle appeared... bulkier. Perhaps with the right color, and modifications.... the only other option I have seen is the performance/regular shift buttons found in the early 90's Bonnevilles, however they use a curved bezel that would be difficult to integrate into the Luminas older "boxy" console design.

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well if you want a brand new craddle, its about $2,200.00 from GM. Have fun with that unless money is no issue. But if anything Id go with option 1

 

But ya know, as long as you have a craddle that functions, putting all that time and money into making it look 'nice' is just a waste IMHO.

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Money is an issue of course, but I want my car the nicest I can get it, I don't mind hard work. And I can get a used cradle from the junk yard for $40.

 

Do you by chance know if an aluminum just bolts right up?

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Get the aluminum cradle anyways cause used ones go for a few hundred. I'm pretty sure it will bolt up but you need different A arms. On the 97+ it's a direct swap.

 

Also beware of the early model (2000) aluminum ones as there were problems with them cracking. They were on 00+ Montes and Luminas, and 04+ GP's. Not sure about Regals.

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Gutless, you are positive? What is different? The cradle bushing mounts located differently?

 

Damn! I was seriously hoping I could swap in an aluminum cradle.....

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they are different somehow. the guys with the two engine '4-4-2' cutlass coupe (a 93 or 94 I think) looked into that and decided that it would have to be modded to fit.

 

also, how bad is the frame? what you describe sounds like the normal flexibility of the frame brackets. they are stiffere when bolted through by the nut and bolt going through the control arm bushing.

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Yep, find the guy with the Cutlass that has the 2 engines. He knows the specifics as to why it doesn't fit. If I find his SN, I'll post it, and you can send him a PM. He doesn't get on too awful much.

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Gen 2 cradles (including the aluminum one) are very different. They might as well have come off a different car... which they pretty much did, because gen 2 and gen 1 W's share very few chassis parts.

 

Yeah Turbocharged400sbc knows the specifics, and he's posted the difference before. There were lots.

 

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Gen 2 cradles (including the aluminum one) are very different. They might as well have come off a different car... which they pretty much did, because gen 2 and gen 1 W's share very few chassis parts.

 

Yeah Turbocharged400sbc knows the specifics, and he's posted the difference before. There were lots.

 

 

yeah i'm still alive... :biggrin:

 

yes they are very different, but in good ways, much more engineering went into the 2nd gen parts, control arm design is better, as are the brakes...

 

http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,38066.0.html

 

thats my original thread (it seems like ages ago lol) i havent updated it but i will just paste this there...and link back to this thread also for future searchers

 

yes it is do-able, at least for a couple of rednecks with a plasmacutter and my next big purchase a HTP InverTIG 201 (2300$ it costs less than my plasmacutter!!! i want to get it in the next year or so)

 

first off the front and rear puck mounts have to be moved outboard (well the rears at least, gime a sec)

the front kickups to the unibody are taller on the gen 2 but if the puck is left out it can be solidly bolted to the G1 unibody with drilled holes in the proper spot.

the steering racks mount the same way and with the same c 2 c spacing on the rack mount ears, as for proper location that would have to wait till it is mocked up

you will have to use the G2 lower control arms and swaybar, which of course requires that you also use the G2 spindle/knuckle (with the larger brakes! which is another good thing, and even alum also!)

and also possibly the strut though i have not yet looked into that.

 

so yes it is possible, but with major work and only then as a complete package deal of the subframe, rear pucks, swaybar, control arms, spindles, brakes, and struts.

the multiple benifits might well be worth it in the end, but many wouldnt have the tools or ability to fab the modifications required, i would venture a guess and say that we may be the first once we get around to it, the 442 is already turning into a unique test bed for stuff we are working on and a alum subframe swap would make it that much more different, but first we would be swapping it into the rear engine compartment as we would only have to reposition the front outriggers of the tube chassis which is easier...

 

I will be buying the TIG welder so that i can do the work on the custom sheetmetal intake for the SI/SII Hybrid 3800 engine project but also to be able to modify the alum subframe, every bit of weight we drop off of her 4330lb ass will help us go faster :twisted: and i see a possibilty of the modified subframes being marketable to Gen 1/swapped Gen1 guys also looking to upgrade their brakes as well as weight loss. so i could possibly weld up a jig and make a few of em...

 

i'm not saying this is a front burner project for us (the turbo fab on the rear 3800 and dropping in the front 3800 are first!) but it's just below the SI/SII Hybrid project on my list...so i'd say around 3 years down the road...but who knows maybe longer, the 442 is in constant evolution...

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