Monkton Posted June 20, 2006 Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Okay, I've been trying to be patient but I can't anymore. It's been 3 weeks and my Cutlass is still not running right. It's a 1991 Cutlass Supreme with the Quad4 in it. It had a rough time idling about 2 months ago and got worse but I neglected to take care of it. One morning it started and stalled, but started back up again when I cranked it over. Ran rough, but was drivable. Then it started to shake when I got any more than 1/4 of the way into the throttle. Got it to my Dad's house and it just started running extremely rough. We thought coil packs, nope, two new ones later it's the same. Spark plugs, nope, 4 new AC Delco's and it still runs like shit. Compression? Nope, all of them are consistent and where they should be. Maybe it was the ICM? Nope, replaced that, still the same. The actual housing for the coilpacks and the terminals was obviously the culprit, the two middle terminals were weak when we ohmed them out. Got a new one, put it in the car... slightly better but it's still won't run right. Then we started it up after I got out of work on Saturday and HOLY S**T! It was running fine! Yes! I got my Cutlass back! My Dad gets inside and eases on the throttle, sounds alright. Gets on it about a little more than a 1/4 the way and BANG! Loud pop and it's running like shit again and the engine is shaking like it was before. Maybe we have a clogged catalytic converter making the engine unable to breathe? Took it off and all it did was get much louder. Seriously running out of ideas guys and I want my car back so baaaaaaaaad. Anyone have any suggestions or should I just give up on this car? If it makes a difference, it's got about 127,000 miles on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2006 Sorry for the double post, but when my Dad checked the computer he got the error code for the manifold sensor or something that sounds like that and we got a new one today and put it in. Ran slightly better and no more error codes. But still not well enough to drive at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89GP_SE Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 after the work you do to the car each time, do you do the idle relearn process, I know that happens to me sometimes and I have to do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted June 21, 2006 Report Share Posted June 21, 2006 Vacuum leak of some sort maybe?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Okay, now it gets even weirder. We did the spark test where we just see how good of a spark we were getting from housing terminals. 1 and 4 were great sparks but nothing from 2 and 3. That was about a week ago and we replaced the housing so we thought we had it. We did the test last night and guess what? 1 and 4 had nothing but 2 and 3 were sparking like crazy. We hooked a diagnostic tool into the computer and when it was running coil pack A and B would go back and forth between on and off. So now we're leaning towards we have an effed up computer. Anything else that could cause something like this to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSI Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 If the ICM and coils are good, It does sound like your ECM. Some auto stores can test it for you. Of course it has to be removed from the car. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kknobl Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 Very very offhand shot in the dark - but do you know when the cat was last replaced? I had a the cat get clogged on my Saturn a couple years ago, and the same kind of stuff was happening. Running rough, very poor acceleration, backfires, fun stuff. Good luck with it. The Quad4 can be a bitch to work on, and frustrating when you can't figure out what in the hell is wrong with it, but when they take a notion to run right, they're strong little engines. Had an Quad4 N-Body some years back, and that thing could go... But I digress...Best of luck with solving your problems! Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted June 22, 2006 Report Share Posted June 22, 2006 he said that he removed the cat, so that vairable is out of the question. i'd want to lean towards a computer, if its alternating what coil packs to run off of, thats just odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 he said that he removed the cat, so that vairable is out of the question. i'd want to lean towards a computer, if its alternating what coil packs to run off of, thats just odd. Maybe we have a clogged catalytic converter making the engine unable to breathe? He said that in the first post, so I don't think he removed it. I guess that's possible, but I'd try a new ECM first. Tap on it once or twice and see if that helps anything. Does the Q4 have a timing belt or chain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZ34 Posted June 23, 2006 Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Crank sensor? I'm not sure if the Q4 has one, but if it does, that's something I would look at replacing. It's a key component in the ignition system, and if it's the original then chances are it's in pretty bad shape by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2006 Not crank sensor. When we hooked the computer up to the Snap-on diagnostic tool everything was fine, but the coil packs kept alternatiing between on and off. It's not cat, it doesn't have one on so that's not a possibilty. Ordered a new ECM today. Hopefully it will fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2006 Changed the computer... nothing is different. Engine still breaks up when you get on the throttle. Please, don't make me bring it to a garage. Any more advice will be greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Videos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac6KSTEAWD Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 I am leaning to either a bad Crank Position Sensor, or a Cam position Sensor. The way its running is identical to my TGP when I had some bad injectors. But you tested the spark, and show no spark. So theres only 4 things that control spark, computer, sensors, coils, ICM. You have replaced 3 of the 4, so its only got one left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Check out the quad 4 forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 I am leaning to either a bad Crank Position Sensor, or a Cam position Sensor. The way its running is identical to my TGP when I had some bad injectors. But you tested the spark, and show no spark. So theres only 4 things that control spark, computer, sensors, coils, ICM. You have replaced 3 of the 4, so its only got one left. Wouldn't the bad crank sensor or cam position sensor trigger the check engine light? And slick, I posted this at the forums and one guy said maybe my timing chain might have a broke tooth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 Should cause an SES light, but you always should pull the codes anyways just to be sure. Not all codes trigger an SES light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 No codes though, my Dad did some thing to it and the check engine light blinks once, then two times quickly (code 12) which means communication has been made. No codes other than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 All he did was jump the pins, thats how you pull codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cutlass Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 You waited after it flashed about 3 times right? it will repeat a code 12 a few times, THEN give engine codes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac6KSTEAWD Posted June 27, 2006 Report Share Posted June 27, 2006 A bad CPS or CamPS will not give a code unless the data is erratic that its receiveing. Ask anyone that has replaced a CPS, and I would almost bet none of them had a code. I didnt have a code on my 3 cars that had a bad CPS. You did replace the ignition control module didnt you? or just the coils? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I replaced the ICM and the coils and the coil housing, althought I'm iffy about the housing because it came from a jy. Getting a new one tomorrow, maybe that's the problem. My Dad doesn't seem to think I have a CPS, where would it be located? Oh and Supreme Cutlass, We let it flash waaaay more than 3 times, so it isn't pulling anymore codes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cutlass Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I replaced the ICM and the coils and the coil housing, althought I'm iffy about the housing because it came from a jy. Getting a new one tomorrow, maybe that's the problem. My Dad doesn't seem to think I have a CPS, where would it be located? Oh and Supreme Cutlass, We let it flash waaaay more than 3 times, so it isn't pulling anymore codes. Just making sure, then my guess would be the CPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 It has a crank position sensor. Its pretty much right above the oil filter. I changed the one on our Blue Q4 International Cutlass yesterday...just take the alternator off and you'll have an easy shot at it. The part only costs $20 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkton Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 My car doesn't have a Camshaft Position Sensor (CMP) because it's a quad4 right? Also, is it common in these quad4's for the ignition coil housing to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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