Updated: Help!!! Cutlass running really rough and smells like raw gas!!!

[SigEpCutlass]

Guys,

 

I need your help really badly! I went home for my Mom's B-day this weekend, and now my cutlass is stuck in MD at my parents house. Thank god my mom lent me her Subaru to get to work today in PA.

 

Here's the problem: Over the past few weeks, my cutlass developed an occasional rough idle and misfire upon acceleration. While it did that, I guess it had a slight backfire too. It would run like that only after the car ran for a certain period of time, or it would just turn over that way. I could turn the car off, wait a minute and then restart with no problems. It got worse and worse over the past week. I figured, the misfire was being caused by the need for new plugs and wires. The old ACDelco plugs/wires are almost 3 years old and have over 53,000mi on them. Same stats go with the coil packs.

 

I bought new Taylor Spiro Pro 8mm wires and NGK Iridium IX plugs from Summit Racing, and installed them yesterday (my god the rear plugs were a bitch even with a ratchet strap rotating the engine forward!) I thought everything would be fine after that. WRONG! The problem is now twice as bad!!! Now the cutlass is not drivable for more than a short distance. I made sure that the spark plug gap was set to .060inches. I'm certain that I did the plugs and wires correctly. My Dad went back over my work and confirmed that I put the plugs & wires on correctly. The wires are on the coilpacks in the correct order, so the problem isn't from the cylinders firing in the wrong order.

 

Cutlass' Current status:

 

Suck at my parents house 3 fucking hours away from the Philly area!!!

Barely drivable

Runs really really ROUGH even idle

Severe Misfire on acceleration

SMELLS LIKE RAW GAS COMING OUT THE EXHAUST

I tried disconnecting the battery to reset the onboard computer. No change.

Tried idle relearn...no change.

 

My dad thinks I lost a fuel injector?

 

WTF is going on? My parents are probably going to either have AAA tow it to the Chevy dealership near their house or drive it there tonight to get worked on. What am I looking at here? Sombody help!

 

[SigEpCutlass]

Btw, car has a little under 103,000 miles on it. The fuel filter was last changed about 53,000 miles ago at the same time as the plugs, wires, and coilpacks. When the car was running, it was not leaking gas on the floor of the garage either. Help!!!

[GnatGoSplat]

If you have an inductive timing light, you can check the plug wires going to each cylinder when it's running bad. If you see 2 bad plugs going to the same coil, it's a bad coil. If the problem is now permanent, you should be able to tell by pulling the plugs and seeing if any are moist looking. 2 moist plugs on the same coil = bad coil. One moist plug most likely = bad injector.

 

My 1st instinct when I first read your description is it's a bad coil. A single bad injector doesn't have symptoms that severe.

 

[slick]

I'm thinking the same thing as Shawn. Either a bad coil(s) or even an ICM.

 

Too bad I don't have any laying around anymore, or I would send you a good one to test with.

[SigEpCutlass]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'll give my Dad a call and see if he has an inductive timing light. I'm pretty sure he does. Either way Shawn, can you elaborate on what I would ask him to do/look for? I'm assuming you just turn the car over, and then use the timing light? TIA!

[GnatGoSplat]

Start the car and let it run. If it's intermittent, you'll have to drive the car or run it till the problem shows up.

When the problem shows up, connect the timing light to each plug wire one at a time and watch the strobe. If it's a bad coil, the timing light will flash rapidly for plug wires connected to good coils, and flash intermittently or not at all for bad coils.

 

I have an inductive timing light because it's a very handy tool for diagnosing bad coils without actually having to disassemble anything.

 

[SigEpCutlass]

Thank-you Shawn! I haven't heard from my Dad yet if he has one. If he does, I'm sure he'll try that before having it taken to the dealership for me. Thanks again for all the ideas Shawn & Slick. If anyone else has any, please don't hesistate to post 'em.

[Monkton]

Same thing is going with my Cutlass. It started out as running rough when at first but got better as I drove, then about two or three weeks ago it just crapped out and became un-drivable. For me it hasn't been the ICM or coil packs, bought new ones. It's not a headgasket. Possibly fuel injection, but my Dad seems to think that maybe their is a pinched wire or the housing for my coilpacks is bad... still haven't figured it out completely.

[Z34-5speed]

Check the o2 sensor.

 

Kyle

[Euro]

.60 gap? isnt it .45? or is that just for 3.1 MPFI not the 3100

[Crazy K]

I do the same spark test on all cylinders, BUT You don;t need an inductive timing light if you don;t have one.

 

I simple detach one plug at a time and and shove a screwdriver into the end. I lay screwdriver w the plugwire on top of the intake manifold and crank the engine. you'll see sparks from the engine to the driver and back. shut the engine off while replacing and removing the plug wires.

'

same as above, it will show if a coil pack is bad only, though.

 

p.s. check engine light on???

[19Cutlass94]

Id check the plugs first when the engine is cold. Pull em out and see what they look like. If they are fine, your ready to check the coils. With the car running, take some insulated pliers and pull each wire off its coil. If you see a spark ( believe me, you will ) then that is good. Test this on all 6. Im willing to bet one of these will be your problem.

[SigEpCutlass]

My Dad did the test as Shawn suggested. Everything was okay with the coils and wires/plugs. Got a call from the dealership...not good news either.

 

Injector #4 is not firing at all and needs to be replaced. Cost $620 for parts and labor. Fuck me...

 

Thanks for all the help guys.

[SigEpCutlass]

p.s. check engine light on???

 

Nope as terrible as it was running, it was not causing the check engine light to come on

 

.60 gap? isnt it .45? or is that just for 3.1 MPFI not the 3100

 

It says on a sticker on the frame under the hood that the gap should be .060inches for my 3100. I guess that 3.1 is different?

[GnatGoSplat]

Injector #4 is not firing at all and needs to be replaced. Cost $620 for parts and labor. Fuck me...

 

Wha??? $620, that's ridiculous. Are they wanting to replace all of them?

Replacement injectors should have the same flow rate, so you can replace them singly. I replaced mine for $45. I also had to get a plenum gasket set that I think only set me back $15 or less. That's all! Worked fine replacing just 1 injector, and it's been fine for over 72k miles. No other injector has failed since, so just because one goes bad does NOT mean others will follow.

 

[SigEpCutlass]

I'm not sure if they're replacing all of them or not. I just told my Dad to have them do whatever was needed to get it running right. I just need to be able to get my cutty back this weekend, so I can give my mom her car back. I do know about $200 of that is diagnostic testing and labor. Criswell Chevy in Gaithersburg, MD is a fantastic dealership from what few dealings I've had with them, but they also have really high labor charges. You may often find them featured in car magazines as they specialize in vettes and exotics like Lotus and Lamborghini.

[SigEpCutlass]

Well here's what I know as of now and it's still not good:

 

#4 Cylinder wasn't firing...OK compression check...replaced injector & now it's firing BUT...

#3 Cylinder isn't firing...looks like they are going to have to replace another injector

 

The dealership is wierd and has 2 shifts that work on cars. So, my car won't be worked on again until 6pm-4am by the night shift. I called the dealership this morning and they'll be authorizing everything they do now with me. Shawn, I think you've rightfully raised my suspicions as to where my money is going!

 

So here's what I figure they did: Ran the diagnostic told them cyl #4 not firing. They just replaced the injector without checking how many ohms of resistance the injector had. They probably didn't check any of the others 5 injectors either, and then just put the plenum back on. This is just fucking great...

[19Cutlass94]

You should have done it yourself. Its easy and only requires a few hand tools. Plus you would have saved a bunch in the money depo.

[SigEpCutlass]

LOL JAY I would if I could...believe me. Like I said in the initial post, the car crapped out at my parent's house on Sunday 3hrs away from where I work and live. The parts stores were closed etc, and the car was not drivable back to Philly. I absolutely had to be at work for some important meetings on Monday morning, so my mom lent me her car. Taking Monday off to fix the car was unfortunately not an option.

 

Forgot to update this from way back when...

 

Injector was replaced, and connector on another was loose. With new upper intake & EGR gaskets, & labor the total was under $600...thank god.

[joey b]

Over the past few weeks, my cutlass developed an occasional rough idle and misfire upon acceleration. While it did that, I guess it had a slight backfire too. It would run like that only after the car ran for a certain period of time, or it would just turn over that way. I could turn the car off, wait a minute and then restart with no problems. It got worse and worse over the past week.

 

I'll bet 20 dollars that it is your ICM. It will take about an hour max to fix. It sits under the coil packs. Remove it and take it to NAPA to be tested as the testor at Auto Zone will not suffice.

 

Evidence it is likely the ICM:

1. It takes a while to fail

2. It is not constant failure

3. Turning the car off remedies the problem

 

EXACT same situation has happened to me MORE THAN ONCE. Each time....ICM. BTW, do not pay the stealership 300 for a new one plus labor. They can be bought for 100 at autozone or advanced. 130ish at NAPA.