backyardpb Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Ok fellas, here is my current situation. As most of you know I have installed the 3.1 TGP engine in my beretta. So you know, its running great but I am still confused about somethings. I have never owned a boosted car before, nor have personally driven one so im not sure what im looking or hearing for. Heres my setup Im running the regular 3.1 tgp engine setup For my boost controller im using a Turbosmart dual stage boost controller I installed a HKS Super Sequential blow off vave on the lower turbo plumbing Im using an Autometer boost gauge which also displays my vacuum This is what I thought I would see/hear At idle my boost gauge reads about 20inches of vacuum. I thought that when at idle, while watching my boost guage, if I were to increase engine rpms I figured I would see vacuum diminish and see boost on the gauge. I have no boost at idle when opening full throttle for any period of time, instead the needle goes to zero. What should I see on my boost guage when at idle, accelerating etc......??? I also thought that when snapping the throttle I would hear the blow-off valve work......I don't hear the blow-off valve, I did put my hand under the valve, snap the throttle to see if it was actually working. It does expel air after snapping the throttle just doesn't make that blow-off valve sound I thought I would hear. And yes, it is an actual authentic real hks ssqv not a knock-off. During my road test ---- When accelerating out of first the boost guage climbs to zero, I shift into 2nd accelerate hard.....boost guage stays steady at 0 maby 1 pound of boost......I gun into 3rd.....I hear the turbo and watch the guage climb to 5 before I have to come to a stop because of a stop sign. Why am I not boosting in first and second? Let me know what you guys see and feel when diving your turbs. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Sounds to me like you are not making boost while driving. you will not make boost per say when there is no load on the engine. You need to be accelerating to make a load. A few questions to narrow things down... On your dual stage how or where are you tapped into the system to sense boost/vacuum? Is it a bar setting or psig setting? Where is the BOV tied in to sense boost/vacuum? Are you a manual or automatic tranny car? Stock TGP turbo or something larger? If you are only making 4-5 psi max then you are not controlling the wastegate actuator and it is opening at it's preload setting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardpb Posted June 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 The car is a 5seed, im running the stock TGP setup - no modifications done to turbo - T25 garret My boost guage is tapped right into engine vaccum from the upper plenum. The Dual Stage Boost Controller is tapped into the brass elbow via silicon hose which runs to my T Connector which runs one line to the controller and one to the actuator. - yes, this is installed correctely. Im not sure if 5psi is my maxpressure remember i had to come to a stop before i could go anymore. when I road tested its also possible i was dealing with a leak. I want to know what to look for, what my guage is suppose to be showing when accelerating, snapping throttle, deaccel etc.... Just want to know what a properly working turbo system should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 If you are "sure" the boost controller is setup right...which tapping from the "pressure" source (brass elbow) of the turbo doesn't sound correct to me. If you have a line from the elbow to a T, then the T feeding both the controller and the wastegate actuator....you are feeding direct boost pressure from the brass fitting to the wastegate actuator which is not controlling anything. You are feeding direct pressure to the wastegate actuator which has a preload of 4-5 psi which will limit your max boost to 4-5 psi. You need to think of the actuator and the brass elbow as a loop. In that loop you need something in there to limit the amount of pressure going through it and getting to the wastegate actuator. The solenoid (either stock or aftermarket) needs to be in between the brass elbow and the actuator. Who made your boost controller? Model? Just so I can look at their specs and instructions...that is if you want help setting it up properly. You should see max boost set in the boost controller immediately with LOAD ON THE ENGINE. I am at 14.1 psig on my 5-speed within 1 second from the time I drop the hammer. You will not see boost on a needle gauge if there is NO LOAD on the motor... i.e: blipping the throttle. I can go 30' and have full boost pressure so going through a few gears you should see it whether the stop sign is 30' or 300' in front of you. Oh this is going to be crude looking!! Boost controller ^ ! ! Turbo brass nipple --------------------------> "T" = WRONG! ! ! v Wastegate Actuator Needs to be: Pressure Sense Line for Controller to Manifold After Throttle Body ^ ! ! ! v Brass nipple <---------------> Boost controller <-------------> Wastegate Actuator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardpb Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 My boost controller is properly installed. My boost controller is the Turbosmart Dual Stage you can view its instructions by clicking the link, the opening the pdf file. http://www.turbosmart.com.au/index.php?s=downloads My HKS SSQV Blow off Valve is tapped using one vaccum line from the bov to engine vacuum - to be exact its the little nipple that was once used for the automatic transmission vacuum line. Could running my vacuum boosted brake system affecting this in anyway? Thanks for your help bud...keep it comin. goodnight - kev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 My HKS SSQV Blow off Valve is tapped using one vaccum line from the bov to engine vacuum - to be exact its the little nipple that was once used for the automatic transmission vacuum line. Could running my vacuum boosted brake system affecting this in anyway? Thanks for your help bud...keep it comin. goodnight - kev Perfect place for a BOV! I will take your word for it on the boost controller. Just the way you described it sounded wrong. You can try something though to see if you have full boost or not...disconnect the line going to the W/G actuator. That will take the control away and should give you max boost. You may have a defective W/G actuator diaphram and it is allowing backpressure to open the W/G flapper. If you still have no/low boost with the circuit disconnected then either you are losing boost...or the diaphram is defective. Mine is bad and will only allow 7 psi when on control. If you have vacuum brakes...do you have a high pressure check valve in place? You need to make sure you do not have boost blowing into the booster. You will damage it and lose a ton of boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z284pwr Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 I will suggest making a pressure tester thing....so easy to make....this will tell you about any major leaks..... With whats said so far, I'm thinking W/G actuator as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Kenny, make sure to warn him of the effects of unplugging the boost for a test, don't want him (new to this ya know ) freaking when he hits fuel cut, engine falls on its face/dies out and the Service Engine Soon light comes on It will be a short test as the turbo "should" spool up and blow past 8 psi within seconds of WOT. I am gone.............. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardpb Posted June 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 I do have an actuator tester. The actuator is working properly. I also do have my check valve in place, which is also working properly. I removed my radiator and some front end parts to gain access to my turbo plumbing, im pretty sure I found a poblem. It was necessary for me to modify the bracket that mounts my clutch slave cyl., The thing is I didnt modify it enough and it looked like a poor seal from the turbo to the lower intercooler pipe. I fixed that today, wasnt able to test it yet because im not going to put this old piece o crap radiator back in. I have new one coming. I will let you guys know how things turnout. Again, I understand how a turbo operates and performs. I just had never ridin in a vheicle that was boosted, im not exactley sure what Im looking for. There were many people telling me I should have boost just by reving the engine, say in park or neut. Some people said its normal not to have boost in first and second gear. There were just to many people telling me what I should see....even tho they have never ACTUALLY heard, seen, touched or ridin in a turbo boosted vheicle, as is the reason im talking to you guys. So just so I understand this is what I should expect. No boost until load is put on the engine..... so I should see some boost in all gears. Thanks for all the help guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 Thanks for clearing things up, no worries on learning, we all started out in the same place at one time Glad to hear you may have found your problem, would not worry too much if it does not work out though, not too bad to figuer things out, just give good "details"; updates on what you find and what you have done so we can do our best. As for the turbo and how she blows Idle and even revving it up won't make any boost, the turbo will spin faster to feed the higher rpms but boost won't happen until there is a load such as being in gear. Most all turbos will give boost in first gear if the foot/gas pedal asks for it, especially the T25 in front of a engine over 3 liters so, should get some kind of boost in any gear, if not then could be the turbo hanging up (see, that "detail": your turbo's condition ), plugged cat or anything plugged after the turbo. And of course big exhaust leak before the turbo. And you are right, vacuum will drop (less vacuum) right as you floor it in neutral, but will be higher than idle after the engine achieves your gas pedal command for that higher rpm. Might be a good idea to proof read the topic here about the differences with a TGP to other 3.1L setups, might find something in there that was missed and might not only help you, but save you too such as still having a small stock fuel pump from a NA 3.1L motor . Good luck after the new radiator! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backyardpb Posted June 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 I do have a better fuel pump, It was necessary when I did the 5speed swap......I keept losing fuel pressure and the car would bog at high rpm during hard accel. I figured the stock one was bad so I kept replacing it.......Then I finally got a better one and have no problems at all....I going to bed. peace out fellas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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