3.1L starts and dies

[snipe]

Where to start, I bought this 89 regal last fall. It had been sitting for the last 6 months, started right up but had a tap sounds like bad lifter #1 cyl, no big deal what can you expect for $200. drove it about 2 blocks and it died. Got it restarted drove about 4 blocks shut it down, put fuel system cleaner and some fresh gas in it. drove another 4 blocks it died, restart and it wouldn't run for more than a few seconds. (Tap does go away after being run)

Towed it to my garage, changed fuel filter, and again starts but as soon as you "goose" the gas it dies. Still thinking its fuel problem, put a gage ono the fuel rack 42 psi, not fuel.

Put it in the back stall and have worked on it through out the winter in between other jobs. Changed ECM, same problem, steadly getting worse runs for a shorter period of time every time I try it until it only starts runs maybe 5 seconds and dies. never any codes.

Now this gets strange. Put new plugs in it, it started right up. Let it run at idle for a while (double checked jack stands etc) put it in gear and run the speed up as the trans shifted you could feel the engine stumble but it continued to run, bring the speed down it stumbled again. Goosed the gas and the engine died, but restarted, shut it down came back a couple hours later and again it starts and dies. I've tested the crank shaft pickup changed out the DIS module and coil packs still the same problem, starts and dies. I'm out of ideas, any suggestions?

[Robby1870]

Well, when I broke my vacuum line on my MAP sensor, it would run for a while then die. So, check that for a small leak in a vacuum line, check O2 senor, if its old/bad, the car will run like crap. Check the Catalytic Converter, if its clogged, the car wont run hardly at all. What about your ICM (ignition control module), the thing the coils plug into? If that is bad, it will stumbe real bad, actually thats a good place to start, judging by what you have said. And, since you said you checked the cranks sensor, I would say ICM.

 

Robby

[Robby1870]

Well, when I broke my vacuum line on my MAP sensor, it would run for a while then die. So, check that for a small leak in a vacuum line, check O2 senor, if its old/bad, the car will run like crap. Check the Catalytic Converter, if its clogged, the car wont run hardly at all. What about your ICM (ignition control module), the thing the coils plug into? If that is bad, it will stumbe real bad, actually thats a good place to start, judging by what you have said. And, since you said you checked the cranks sensor, I would say ICM.

 

Robby

[JS91Z34]

Does it run on all six before it dies or does it stumble before it dies? You could also try checking your TPS?

[Slade901]

Well, I just fixed a car with similar issue like what you are having now.

 

First, what I did was that I check all sensors like the MAP, Air Charge Temperature sensor, Throttle Position Sensor, Automatic Idle Speed Sensor, Coolant Sensor, Oxygen Sensor. Sure enough the Air Charge Temperature Sensor, Oxygen Sensor, and Automatic Idle Speed was bad. I fixed the Air Charge Temperature Sensor by cleaning the tip because it was covered with hardened substance.

 

Crank the engine and it run for a while and then dies a few minutes. Tried to crank it again and tried to rev it up and then dies.

 

I was thinking of back pressure build-up and so I removed the Oxygen Sensor and crank the car and the engine runs fine. Tried to rev it at 2000-3000 rpm and still the engine is running fine. Let the car run for 20 minutes or more and still the engine is running and it did not die (be warned that the exhaust will be coming off where the Oxygen Sensor was removed from and it is very noisy and watch out of fumes and perhaps backfire). Turned off the engine and reconnected the Oxygen Sensor and cranked the engine and it run for a while and then died. Confirmed that the Catalytic Converter is bad and replaced a new one and the car is running fine now.

 

If I were you, just go ahead and remove the Oxygen Sensor and try to crank your engine and see if the car does not die off then you know you have a bad (plugged/poisoned) catalytic converter (be warned that the exhaust will be coming off where the Oxygen Sensor was removed from and it is very noisy and watch out of fumes and perhaps backfire).

[Slade901]

Another possibility would be that the EGR is bad.

 

One simple way to fix a bad EGR is to by-pass it using an EGR block off plate. To put the EGR block off plate, you must remove the EGR and put the EGR block off plate on the base and then put the EGR over it. Basically, you are blocking the passage way of the EGR.

 

Expensive way would be to buy a new EGR. There might be some less expensive EGR

[snipe]

It looks like I confused a few with the DIS (distributor less ignition system)module, sorry about that, I was talking about the ICM.

Thanks for the tip on pulling the O2 sensor(good idea for next time), I'd already drilled a 7/16 hole about 6" infront of the CAT to check for back pressure.

When I was able to run the engine I'd hooked an induction timing light to each wire every plug would miss intermitently, that's what led me to change first the plugs then the ICM.

Keep the ideas coming, I'll let you know when I find the right one.

[Robby1870]

you said it was missing. What about the coils themselves? Did you change them? If its missing intermittently, theres only so many things it could be and from what you have said, you have changed them all except the coils

 

Robby

[Slade901]

I forgot to mention this about the fuel pump. My 1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme did have some problem about idling for a few minutes and if I turn it off for a while and tried again then it would start and I can drive it fine and twice a week between commute the car dies.

 

I did test the fuel pressure and it was within the specs. I even replaced the fuel regulator to no avail. Finally, decided to check the Fuel pump (have to remove the gas tank) and the filter for the Fuel pump was already disentegrated (metal mesh filter) and blocking the pathway for the fuel may have destroyed the valve on the fuel pump which allows the pressure to go back into the gas tank via the fuel pump at higher speeds.

 

Anyway, since the metal mesh filter on the fuel pump was messed up, I replaced with a new one and the bottom of the tank was dirty and I have to use a vacuum to remove dirt and contaminants.

 

I am not sure if repair shop would clean your tank if you let them replace your fuel pump. I am glad I did and learned along the way. BTW, I have to run my car when it runs to used up all the gas and then put water in the tank to minimize explosion. Even the tank is empty of gas, the gas vapor as still there and will cause explosion and so I added water in the gas tank and I took my time for that repair.

[snipe]

The coils were changed at the same time as the ICM, although the old coils tested properly.(spare parts) and I did jumper the fuel pump while I had the filter off to test flow and then pressure as stated above.

While waiting for a power steering job to come in yesterday, I pulled the Idle Air control motor, it was gummed up. Cleaned, tested and reinstalled.

Second start the engine kept running. let it Idle and the IACM adjusted engine RPM as the engine got warm. I slowly increased RPM at approx 1000-1200 rpm it shut down. Did this twice, now it will start and run about 10-15 seconds (twice as long as before).

One part at a time, will I run out of parts or will it run first? :?

[rglguy]

3 words, spark plug wires

 

same sorta prob on a 3800 i had ina dleta 88, chaged wires it was all good, forget chekcing reistance, just go get new ones

[snipe]

I went out and got a new set of plug wires, still the same thing. Runs every now and then, but rough and as soon as I give it gas it dies.

[Slade901]

Snipe

 

You mentioned that you drilled a hole just above the cat to check for pressue. Try leaving that hole open and also remove the O2 sensor out completely. Crank the engine and see if it still dies after a giving it a gas.

 

Put some injector cleaner on your gas tank just in case the injector is a little bit gummed up.

 

Remove the air cleaner assembly so that that the throttle body is exposed directly and could get air properly while testing the engine.