Going back to manifolds

[5speedz34]

My headers suck period.

 

I want to go back manifolds, the thing is I would like to get them ported and possibly ceramic coated or wrapped.

 

What do you guys think? I'm just looking for a nice port and polish in the manifolds and maybe the crossover, but I don't know shit about porting or polishing. How much would it cost to get it done?

 

Thanks

[Guest TurboSedan]

maybe replace the subframe too

[5speedz34]

maybe replace the subframe too

 

Well, I think I need to pull the subframe to get the headers off....with that said my plan is to maybe replace it, but the "notch" really doesn't bother me too much to tell you the truth, you haven't seen it though. I will be replacing a few other things while I do it also.

 

If I do replace the subframe I plan on getting it powdercoated. I know the 04+ W-bodies got a aluminum subframe. Would there be any advantage in getting one fabbed up? I wonder how much work it would take? [br]Posted on: May 09, 2006, 05:23:22 PM_________________________________________________Well, I also posted on 60* and Ben seemed to tell me that the manifolds are built around the bores for the bolts so there really isn't much room to port anything. He also seemed to say that getting them wrapped would increase my KR. He said my best bet is just to ceramic coat them and be done with it.

[GP1138]

Don't tell Aaron.

[5speedz34]

Don't tell Aaron.

 

You guys never saw what he posted about on Real Fiero Tech....yeah he likes to say shit behind peoples backs.

[GP1138]

Don't tell Aaron.

 

You guys never saw what he posted about on Real Fiero Tech....yeah he likes to say shit behind peoples backs.

 

Link plz kthx.

[5speedz34]

Don't tell Aaron.

 

You guys never saw what he posted about on Real Fiero Tech....yeah he likes to say shit behind peoples backs.

 

Link plz kthx.

 

I'll PM it to you I really don't want to polute this thread.

[White93z34]

what makes you want to go back to manifolds? what about the headers is bad?

 

they looked well-built when i saw them last may, and i'd certinally not loose any sleep over the notched subframe, it was done correctly.

[5speedz34]

what makes you want to go back to manifolds? what about the headers is bad?

 

they looked well-built when i saw them last may, and i'd certinally not loose any sleep over the notched subframe, it was done correctly.

 

Well, Ben doesn't think the car can be tuned without 6 02 sensors and a aftermarket ECM. Granted, I haven't looked into anyone else to do the tuning. So consequently the car runs like shit, it runs rich as hell, and fouls out the plugs. The headers have pin whole leaks and the welds look like a 5 year old did them (in Aaron's defense it was the first time he welded). The headers rub on alot of different things. Dogbones, fans, they have even melted part of the the throttle cable!!!!! They are ceramic coated but get extremely hot!

 

Pretty much to much of a hassle. I would like to take them off and go to manifolds so I can at least drive the car, then down the road get some headers done.

[J]

we can do polishing at my place with my dremel, or go to my dads shop and possibily extrude hone them. I'm glad to hear your going to take the headers off, maybe you can enjoy the car. Also PM me the link to Aarons thread

[White93z34]

so, out of curiousity what all is making the car run so poor? do you think the headers really contribute that much?

 

but on the flip side, i do see what you mean about the headaches you are having from them, it did seem like they made the engine bay awful cramped.

 

then again you can use the research that aaron did with these headers to possabily make a better set if you so desired.

 

and if you need any help in the project, give me a shout.

 

and x3 on PMimg me the link to that thread.

[digitaloutsider]

x4 on the link!

[19Cutlass94]

Just incase your wondering about the cost of a brand new Al. subframe, GM gets $2,200 for a brand new one. Thats just the subframe alone, nothing else.

[5speedz34]

we can do polishing at my place with my dremel, or go to my dads shop and possibily extrude hone them. I'm glad to hear your going to take the headers off, maybe you can enjoy the car. Also PM me the link to Aarons thread

 

Well, like I said I don't think there is much to do about getting the ported, but I haven't seen a set myself personally. That would be awesome when it comes time to do it though!

 

so, out of curiousity what all is making the car run so poor? do you think the headers really contribute that much?

 

but on the flip side, i do see what you mean about the headaches you are having from them, it did seem like they made the engine bay awful cramped.

 

then again you can use the research that aaron did with these headers to possabily make a better set if you so desired.

 

and if you need any help in the project, give me a shout.

 

and x3 on PMimg me the link to that thread.

 

The headers don't/won't make the car run right. I stopped driving it after the car wouldn't start since it was running so rich and made the plugs foul out. Ben can't tune it unless I get 6 O2's (one for each cylinder) and a aftermarket ECM. Like I said down the road I would like to make some.

 

Just incase your wondering about the cost of a brand new Al. subframe, GM gets $2,200 for a brand new one. Thats just the subframe alone, nothing else.

 

My plan was on getting one made, since I don't think they bolt into the 1st-gens. Plus I don't know how much of a benefit it will be getting one.

 

x4 on the link!

 

Well, I'll post the link, but I don't want this to turn into a bashing Aaron thread. If that happens I want this thread locked because I will be only doing the same thing he did to me.

 

http://realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2102&highlight=tony

 

This was after I im'ed him about throttle body sizes because I want to go back to the stock LQ1 size and work my way up since the LS1 on there is to huge IMO.

 

[joey b]

Why not put 1 sensor in and see how it reacts? Won't cost anything extra since you are going to buy a sensor anyway.

[5speedz34]

Why not put 1 sensor in and see how it reacts? Won't cost anything extra since you are going to buy a sensor anyway.

 

What?

[Vegeta]

I haven't ruled out the possibility of a heated O2 sensor working, but its still probably not going to want to tune because of the delay in getting the reading from the exhaust valve to the O2. The fact that it has the primary length, collector length, and then more length to the Y where both halves collect = less heat and lots of delay. The stock O2 wasn't getting anywhere near operating temp until 2nd gear or so on a WOT pull from a stand still. No way you can tune it. Can't blame me for not being able to tune what isn't setup to be tuned to begin with:P

 

Yes, I would shorten the headers and use the stock ECM or aftermarket ECM with individual EGT/O2 sensors for each cylinder with long tube headers.

 

[patgizz]

I haven't ruled out the possibility of a heated O2 sensor working, but its still probably not going to want to tune because of the delay in getting the reading from the exhaust valve to the O2. The fact that it has the primary length, collector length, and then more length to the Y where both halves collect = less heat and lots of delay. The stock O2 wasn't getting anywhere near operating temp until 2nd gear or so on a WOT pull from a stand still. No way you can tune it. Can't blame me for not being able to tune what isn't setup to be tuned to begin with:P

 

Yes, I would shorten the headers and use the stock ECM or aftermarket ECM with individual EGT/O2 sensors for each cylinder with long tube headers.

 

 

excellent explanation, and 100% true of gm's with non heated O2's. and that far back, who knows if heated O2 will even work effectively? the first thing ANYONE in the know ever told me about EFI GM's with non heated O2 sensors was to be wary of placement with headers, because they won't get hot enough to be effective. when i had no $ for a heated O2 and put headers on my truck, it NEVER ran right with the 1 wire sensor. after switching tothe heated sensor it was nice and drivable. but this was way closer to the engine than it sounds like "previous owner" put yours. on tony's car, "the builder" may as well have stuck it in the tailpipe, because it's doing the same thing where it is now. "don't have ben tune it, he knows what he's doing and will point all the things i screwed up" - yeah buddy, take it somewhere else where they can tune without a properly functioning o2 sensor LOL.

 

can you stick heated o2 in the collector of one header to see what happens? i know its not the perfect tuning aid but most of the rwd cars and trucks came with it in one manifold only.

 

plus the fact that they hit the dogbone, burn your throttle cable, and are up against your fan and probably will melt it is a big turn off. i'd rather have stock manifolds and be able to drive the car.

[5speedz34]

I haven't ruled out the possibility of a heated O2 sensor working, but its still probably not going to want to tune because of the delay in getting the reading from the exhaust valve to the O2. The fact that it has the primary length, collector length, and then more length to the Y where both halves collect = less heat and lots of delay. The stock O2 wasn't getting anywhere near operating temp until 2nd gear or so on a WOT pull from a stand still. No way you can tune it. Can't blame me for not being able to tune what isn't setup to be tuned to begin with:P

 

Yes, I would shorten the headers and use the stock ECM or aftermarket ECM with individual EGT/O2 sensors for each cylinder with long tube headers.

 

 

excellent explanation, and 100% true of gm's with non heated O2's. and that far back, who knows if heated O2 will even work effectively? the first thing ANYONE in the know ever told me about EFI GM's with non heated O2 sensors was to be wary of placement with headers, because they won't get hot enough to be effective. when i had no $ for a heated O2 and put headers on my truck, it NEVER ran right with the 1 wire sensor. after switching tothe heated sensor it was nice and drivable. but this was way closer to the engine than it sounds like "previous owner" put yours. on tony's car, "the builder" may as well have stuck it in the tailpipe, because it's doing the same thing where it is now. "don't have ben tune it, he knows what he's doing and will point all the things i screwed up" - yeah buddy, take it somewhere else where they can tune without a properly functioning o2 sensor LOL.

 

can you stick heated o2 in the collector of one header to see what happens? i know its not the perfect tuning aid but most of the rwd cars and trucks came with it in one manifold only.

 

plus the fact that they hit the dogbone, burn your throttle cable, and are up against your fan and probably will melt it is a big turn off. i'd rather have stock manifolds and be able to drive the car.

 

Orginally it was only on one bank, and thats when Ben saw it in person. I later had it moved down to opposite end of the collector with no change.

 

Like Ben said I could always go to a heated O2 but at this point im tired of fucking around with it.

[joey b]

is it possible that if you put one 02 sensor in only one of the primaries that it may help be able to tune?

[5speedz34]

is it possible that if you put one 02 sensor in only one of the primaries that it may help be able to tune?

 

that's the way it was before hand, when Ben hooked up his scanner.

[Vegeta]

Well, if you stuck it in only the rear banks pipe it may have a chance with the heated O2. It was originally put on the front bank...down below the downpipe area. That should give you an idea of just how far the exhaust traveled before the O2 ever saw it.

[Turbocharged400sbc]

...........

 

Just incase your wondering about the cost of a brand new Al. subframe, GM gets $2,200 for a brand new one. Thats just the subframe alone, nothing else.

 

My plan was on getting one made, since I don't think they bolt into the 1st-gens. Plus I don't know how much of a benefit it will be getting one..............

 

they dont fit, i have all the measurements and untill our recent setbacks i was gonna buy an 00 imp subframe and stuff from the Jyard (i got priced 150$) and TIG eld the brackets into place...it looks like the front horns may bolt solid to the 1gen puck mounts (solid no rubber puck installed) and eventually get it in the 442 and have a JIG to make more...i just havent seen enough interest in it...you have to swap to the late brakes/spindle control arms etc.

 

as for benifites...how about 50+lbs off the front...AND the excelent late model brakes.

 

but for now we are putting that on the back burner...it's turbo time...

[joey b]

comical. Maybe the o2 sensor can read the future. Why not move it closer to the engine. Of course, you would still have to worry about the structural defects of the headers, but hey you'll still be able to blow the doors off of all the Z06's you come across.

 

But seriously, unless it is different on your side of the state. Good luck finding manifolds.

[Vegeta]

http://www.realfierotech.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=47269#47269

 

Its still my fault he built headers that I can't tune for...