Changing to Synthetic ?

[97cutlass]

Hi All!I'm back looking for some opinions on motor oil .I just recently lost a 3100 engine(bearings,crank).Which had frequent oil changes using mostly Qstate oil & filters and the odd time a fram filter.I had another 3100 swapped in.4-5 days after having the car back,i noticed some dents on the ac delco filter,called the mechanic back forgot to tell me "didn't have time to change the oil" :shock:

 

Oil looked clean but,was concerned about the dented filter.Changed the oil & filter(quaker State again)The very next day,heard a tapping upon starting the engine which lasts for a few minutes when cold.

 

Just yesterday,while browsing the web,I found that these Quaker state filters were in fact the notorious Fram filters painted green.Could this be the cause?

 

I'm planning on doing another oil change within a day or two.I can't however,risk needing any major repairs right now.So,I was thinking of using an ACdelco filter & possibly switching to a synthetic oil.Possibly,mobile 1 or amsol.Is there a procedure to switching to synthetic or just drain & fill ?

 

 

I'd very much appreciate any thought ,suggestion or experiences.Thanks again!Ps.,Sorry 'bout the long post.....

[Guest Anonymous]

How many miles are on the motor? Does it leak any oil now? With synthetic it will seem like your leaking more oil.

 

If I were you I would get an AC filter and switch to Mobil 1 Drive Clean blend. If your happy with that then on the next change go to Mobil 1 Synthetic Blend. If your happy with that and don't notice a lot of oil leaking the switch to full synthetic.

 

There is no special way to do the oil change. Just drain and fill... BUT I'll tell you how I do it. After all the oil drain from the pan take a quart of whatever oil your going to use and dump it in. Let that run down through and drain out. Then change the filter and put your oil in. I always fill my oil filter before putting it on also. Another thing some people do is before starting thew car after an oil change they pull the fuel pump fuse and crank the car over. This let's the oil pump up through the motor before starting it.

Hope this helps and I'm sure more people will add more.

[brian89gp]

Synthetic is better hands down, but if you don't constantly beat on your car and change the oil every 3k miles then normal oil should be fine as well. I switched to synthetic cause normal oil wouldn't last 1k before getting burnt and lumpy :P/

 

That tapping could be piston slap, it is a common problem in 3100's which causes no damage.

[godofthunder]

That 3100 sound, I have it too...

 

We talked about it here a while back....it even happens on the new ones ( I remember SaberZ saying something). Its bascily the rockers caus theres not enough oil up at the top of the engine yet. You can notice with the temp, the warmer it is, the less it does it (it was 60 when I left this morning, no noise at all).

 

There was also a problem like this on the earlier 3.1s as well, our old lumina did it.

 

jon

[JS91Z34]

what weight oil are you guys running that have this noise. If you have piston slap in any motor loud enough to hear it. I wouldn't be driving it. The skirt/skirts of the piston will break off.

[GPRACER]

Synthetic is better hands down, but if you don't constantly beat on your car and change the oil every 3k miles then normal oil should be fine as well. I switched to synthetic cause normal oil wouldn't last 1k before getting burnt and lumpy :P/

 

That tapping could be piston slap, it is a common problem in 3100's which causes no damage.

 

I agree that the synthetic is better for sure, but I have had problems with quaker state in 2.8,3.1,3100, qnd 3400 engines. I use Mobil 1 most of the time and sometimes castrol syntec even though it has a mineral base.

 

I have to disagree on the noise diagnosis, piston slap is common with the 3100 and 3400, but it can be very harmful to the engine. It has nothing to do with valve train noise although it is very similar sounding. The problem is the teflon coating on some of the pistons is wearing off. There is a GM bulletin for this problem, and if I had to count the number of new pistons I've installed for this very reason I'd be here all night. GM say's the problem will not cause further damage, but I have seen at least 2 cases where the knock sensor detected this noise and tried to make adjustments causing all kinds of driveability problems.

 

Here is the bulletin

 

Document ID# 502979

 

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COLD ENGINE TICK OR RATTLE AFTER AFTER START-UP #57-61-24A - (06/11/1998)

REVISION: 06/11/98 DIVS INVL 1 2 3 4 7

 

THIS BULLETIN IS BEING REVISED TO EXPAND THE MODEL YEAR COVERAGE, AND TO ADD THE U-VAN, THE 3400 V6 ENGINE APPLICATIONS AND PARTS INFORMATION. ALSO, THE CAUSE STATEMENT HAS BEEN CHANGED. PLEASE DISCARD CORPORATE SERVICE BULLETIN 57-61-24 (SECTION 6-ENGINE). ______________________________________________________________________

 

SUBJECT: COLD ENGINE TICK OR RATTLE AFTER START-UP (REPLACE PISTON/PIN ASSEMBLY)

 

MODELS: 1994-95 BUICK REGAL 1994-97 BUICK SKYLARK 1994-98 BUICK CENTURY 1994-95 CHEVROLET BERETTA, CORSICA, LUMINA, MONTE CARLO 1996-98 CHEVROLET VENTURE 1997-98 CHEVROLET MALIBU 1993-97 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS SUPREME 1994-96 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA 1994-97 OLDSMOBILE ACHIEVA 1997-98 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS 1996-98 OLDSMOBILE SILHOUETTE 1994-98 PONTIAC GRAND PRIX 1994-98 PONTIAC GRAND AM 1996-98 PONTIAC TRANS SPORT WITH 3100 OR 3400 V6 ENGINE (VINS M, E - RPOS L82, LA1)

 

CONDITION:

 

SOME CUSTOMERS MAY COMMENT ON A TICKING TYPE NOISE THAT BEGINS SHORTLY AFTER COLD ENGINE START-UP AND GRADUALLY DIMINISHES AS THE ENGINE WARMS UP. IN MOST CASES, THE NOISE IS GONE AFTER FIVE (5) MINUTES. IN SEVERE CASES, THE NOISE MAY NOT DISAPPEAR WHEN THE ENGINE IS HOT.

 

CAUSE:

 

UNDER NORMAL DESIGN TOLERANCES WHEN THE PISTON PIN BORE IS PRODUCED AT THE MAXIMUM TOLERANCE AND THE PISTON PIN IS PRODUCED AT THE MINIMUM TOLERANCE (MIN-MAX TOLERANCE) TRACE NOISE LEVELS CAN OCCUR. THIS LEVEL OF NOISE DOES NOT AFFECT THE RELIABILITY OR DURABILITY OF THE PRODUCT.

 

CORRECTION:

 

IF PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE IS DETECTED AND THE CUSTOMER DESIRES THE CONDITION TO BE CORRECTED, REPLACE ALL SIX PISTONS WITH PIN ASSEMBLIES. THE NEW PISTON SETS HAVE A MINIMAL PISTON-TO-PIN CLEARANCE. REMEMBER, PISTON-TO-PIN NOISE OCCURS IN BOTH PARK AND DRIVE AT ENGINE IDLE RPM AND IT VARIES IN INTENSITY DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF PISTONS INVOLVED. A TICKING SOUND MEANS ONE PISTON IS AFFECTED WHEREAS A RATTLE OR DIESEL TYPE SOUND INDICATES MORE THAN ONE PISTON AFFECTED. THE FOLLOWING SHOULD ALSO BE CHECKED:

 

1) ON W-CARS, MAKE SURE THE RIGHT SIDE ENGINE SPLASH SHIELD IS NOT CONTACTING THE ENGINE CRANKSHAFT BALANCER. THIS CONDITION USUALLY HAPPENS COLD AND IS CAUSED BY THE SHIELD CURLING WHEN COLD.

 

2) REFERENCE SERVICE BULLETIN 57-71-06 FOR TRANSMISSION RATTLE NOISE OFTEN CONFUSED FOR ENGINE RATTLE NOISE.

 

3) REFERENCE SERVICE BULLETIN 47-61-36 FOR ACCESSORY DRIVE BELT TENSIONER NOISE.

 

4) CHECK CYLINDER BORE DIAMETER AND PISTON DIAMETER AS OUTLINED IN THE SERVICE MANUAL.

 

IMPORTANT: EXCESSIVE CYLINDER BORE TO PISTON DIAMETER CLEARANCE CAN CAUSE A SIMILAR TYPE NOISE.

 

USE THE PROCEDURE IN THE APPROPRIATE SERVICE MANUAL FOR PISTON REPLACEMENT.

 

NOTICE: WHEN INSTALLING THE NEW PISTON AND PIN ASSEMBLY ONTO THE EXISTING RODS, USE EXTREME CARE TO AVOID DAMAGE TO EITHER THE PIN OR PISTON BORE. IF DAMAGE TO THESE AREAS OCCURS, THE NOISE WILL RETURN BECAUSE THE DAMAGE WILL CAUSE WEAR AND EXCESSIVE CLEARANCE.

 

PARTS INFORMATION:

 

DESCRIPTION P/N QTY APPLICATION ----------- --- --- -----------

 

PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24505806 6 94-95 3100

 

PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24508726 6 96-98 3100

 

PISTON WITH PIN ASSEMBLY 24508727 6 96-98 3400

 

PARTS ARE CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FROM GMSPO.

 

WARRANTY INFORMATION:

 

FOR VEHICLES REPAIRED UNDER WARRANTY, USE:

 

LABOR OPERATION LABOR OPERATION NUMBER DESCRIPTION TIME ---------------- ----------- ---------------

 

J1307 PISTON, ROD AND/OR RINGS USE PUBLISHED LABOR OPERATION TIME

 

FIGURES: 0 ATTACHMENTS: 0

 

GENERAL MOTORS BULLETINS ARE INTENDED FOR USE BY PROFESSIONAL TECHNICIANS, NOT A "DO-IT-YOURSELFER". THEY ARE WRITTEN TO INFORM THOSE TECHNICIANS OF CONDITIONS THAT MAY OCCUR ON SOME VEHICLES, OR TO PROVIDE INFORMATION THAT COULD ASSIST IN THE PROPER SERVICE OF A VEHICLE. PROPERLY TRAINED TECHNICIANS HAVE THE EQUIPMENT, TOOLS, SAFETY INSTRUCTIONS AND KNOW-HOW TO DO A JOB PROPERLY AND SAFELY. IF A CONDITION IS DESCRIBED, DO NOT ASSUME THAT THE BULLETIN APPLIES TO YOUR VEHICLE, OR THAT YOUR VEHICLE WILL HAVE THAT CONDITION. SEE A GENERAL MOTORS DEALER SERVICING YOUR BRAND OF GENERAL MOTORS VEHICLE FOR INFORMATION ON WHETHER YOUR VEHICLE MAY BENEFIT FROM THE INFORMATION.

 

COPYRIGHT 1998. GENERAL MOTORS CORPORATION. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

 

 

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.

WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION

 

 

© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.

 

 

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Document ID# 502979

[grandprix104]

well i guess that answered one of my questions too.

[Robby1870]

Yes, I agree with GPRACER, Piston Slap=bad, always

 

Robby

[JS91Z34]

I have 5 3100 pistons with busted skirts.

[brian89gp]

Yes, I agree with GPRACER, Piston Slap=bad, always

 

Robby

 

I was basing that off of what GM said. I wonder why they would say that no damage can be caused when it actually will?

[Robby1870]

I dont know why they would say its not bad. Cuz when you have piston slap, your going to mess up your pistons and valves, and prolly cause your valves to eventually seat wrong and lose compression. Oh well, thats GM for ya

 

Robby

[JS91Z34]

I dont know why they would say its not bad. Cuz when you have piston slap, your going to mess up your pistons and valves, and prolly cause your valves to eventually seat wrong and lose compression. Oh well, thats GM for ya

 

Robby

 

Wait till you get enough slap going and it snaps the rod in half because of the piston cocking in the cylinder. Let me tell you, it always makes for big holes!!!

[SaberZ]

aye, godofthunder has quite a good memory

 

 

Yeah even these new cars have that sound. It's pretty normal and goes away after a warm up period. Probably cuz the oil isn't as fluid and its cold, so by moving the pistons, the viscosity heats it up, thus causign it to be more fluid and less friction to occur(warmup )

 

 

And I swear by Mobil 1...until i can find Amsol Oil(however its spelled)