Turbocharged400sbc Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 yeah thats right folks i'm asking fer your thoughts on this project overview of the 442...i know...opinions are like uranus...everyone has one, and it's wayyyy out there I am almost done on a whole DVD on the 442 with all the vids, all the pics, this project overview and all of my SI/SII Hybrid work (still working on that writup....it's LOOONG!) with the pictures integrated into the writup I am actually looking to be able to use more than 75 MB each disk well anyways..i'm looking fer your thoughts...does it cover the aspects of the car you find interesting? does it seem jumbled at all? any and all recomendation would be appreciated...I cant count on Al...he's non PC compatible...but also gramatically lobotomized Thanks guys, here it is: 94 Olds 442 Twin engine Project Overview: What do you do when your best friend and fellow mechanic, Al, wants his 1994 two-door Cutlass Supreme to go faster, and you have suddenly acquired a 1990 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo, for free? Now what if the car has to be drivable every workweek, all work being done on weekends… I'll tell you: You fire up your plasma cutter remove the engine, transaxle, subframe and front strut buckets from the Trofeo. Then you proceed to remove the harness and ECM/BCM and other electronics from it, leaving LOTS of "useless" gismo's behind. Then you take the Cutlass, gut it and engineer a tube chassis and rollcage, basically “back half†the car, while removing everything no longer required with a PLASMA cutter (one of my best investments). To make it short, the front strut buckets from the Trofeo were welded in the (old) rear strut position and outriggers from the new chassis to bolt the front Trofeo subframe into the rear of the cutlass. After bolting in the 3800 V6/Transaxle into the subframe and bolting the subframe/engine back into the car, then in went the fuel cell, the Aeromotive 450lb/hr fuel pump, and the Aeroquipe AN-8 and 6 braided stainless fuel lines and fittings. All this so he can drive it while the Trofeo's harness was reduced to bare essentials and to make a VATS/PassKey simulator for the ECM to bypass the factory antitheft system. With the front ventilated disk brakes from the Trofeo now in the rear of the 442 an adjustable proportioning valve was installed to allow for proper brake bias. When the harness was finished 53lbs. of a 65lb. harness was eliminated, now comprising of the ECM, VATS simulator, engine/trans harness and a separate fuse/switch panel everything was installed. The VATS bypass is a simple 555 based signal generator (30Hz ground pulsed) and was made to simulate the OEM VATS signal so that the engine will run without killing the injector pulse. After the rear battery was installed, the main 4 gauge power/ground cables were run to each engine’s starter/block and to the 442’s factory primary power center and then came the music! TWO V6's with open exhaust! For now the front 3100 exhaust goes through a Flowmaster 2 chamber and exits at the passenger side exhaust tip. The rear engine is an open down pipe right now, but will be going to the left-rear cutout in the 3.4L LQ1 DOHC Cutlass dual exhaust, both with matching tips. To control both of the transaxles separately as well as together required dual shifters, each shifter is independent from the other so that we can drive with either engine in case one of them breaks down. It also makes for easy front, then rear, wheel burnouts. Just put the other shifter in park! By far the most troublesome issue with a twin engine car is finding the right throttle cable setup. The rear throttle cable, currently consists of custom throttle cable ends/adjusters made on a Bridgeport Mill, with a commercially available Teflon lined sheath, and right now uses 0.7mm steel cable and utilizes roller bearings at each end to reduce friction by removing two 90 degree bends. This is the 19th generation and was allot work but at least this final version, puts the rear 3800 at WOT where we need it, and seems to have solved the friction/breakage issues of the previous try’s. We still have to mess with the progressive cam linkage on the rear throttle to fine tune it further. As with all cars the parts swapped from the Trofeo to the cutlass were not mechanically sound, and in the interest of making the car bulletproof, parts were replaced with OE quality Reman components, the axles, wheel bearings, tie rod ends, struts and so on, then we went for a ride! Where the front used to just unload and spin the tires, now the rear just squats and goes, rarely do the front tires spin, so far the 442 has pulled consistent 1.90s 60 foot times. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Each of the 442 engine’s have separate: cooling systems, ignition systems, secondary electrical systems and ECM(rear)/PCM(front), transaxle shifters, alternators, fuel pressure regulators, separate four-gauge power and ground cables from the rear mounted battery; which supplies power to the 3100 starter as well as the factory front fuse box/electrical center, and power to a fuse block for the rear 3800's ECM and switches, along with separate Tachometer and oil pressure/coolant temperature gauges. Both engines share: the Aeromotive 100psi 450 lb-hr fuel pump and AN-6 &-8 lines and the fittings to each engine’s fuel rail/regulator from the twenty gallon fuel cell. The throttle cables are linked with a progressive opening rear throttle. The primary electrical system is charged from the front engines alternator; but in case of failure the rear alternator just needs to be plugged in to take over charging duties. Engine/Transaxle Modifications: The 3800 LN3 VIN C (rear) engine from the 90 Toronado Trofeo has mainly porting modifications and the top of the pistons were deburred/smoothed with the combustion chamber cleaned up. All of the chambers measured 5cc larger after cleanup, preparing them for detonation resistance with the future turbocharging. The intake/heads/exhaust manifolds have been port-matched. The heads have received a good amount of porting and polishing along with back cut and radiused, intake and exhaust valves. The intake has had the injector bumps removed, inside the intake runners for better flow. Also, the AC compressor and P/S pump have been deleted. The original Magnavox ignition coils and module were replaced with the later Delco II ignition module and individual coils with Accel wires. The transaxle is factory stock but with a dimpled vacuum modulator and my urethane bump stops in the 1-2 and 2-3 shift accumulators. An ATF pump was installed to circulate transmission fluid (rear transaxle in N eng off) while he drives with just the front engine for better fuel economy, this is accomplished with 3 one way check valves and an external and internal trans cooler. The 3100 (front) engine has been fully port matched, with the heads receiving a good amount of porting, and back cut valves with the decks being shaved 0.010 inch and the friction type rockers adjusted to proper preload. The intake has had the injector bumps removed from inside the intake ports to improve flow, also the cast iron exhaust manifolds have been fully ported and polished. The down pipe has been replaced with a single wall 2.25-inch tube and has had the catalectic converter deleted and replaced with a Flomaster 2 chamber muffler. Ignition cables have been replaced with Accel wires. The transaxle has had a full performance rebuild with a higher stall converter, performance clutches, and Torrington thrust bearings. This transaxle also received my urethane 1-2 and 2-3 accumulator bump stops, for firmer shifts. Future Modifications: Future modifications include a TD06-17c-8cm^2 Mitsubishi turbo for the 3.8L (and maybe Nitrous) to help push her off the line, and a DIY EFI MegaSquirt V2.2 ECM to control it at that point. The Mitsubishi TD06-17c-8cm^2, is the stock turbo for 91-93 4.3L turbocharged Cyclone/Typhoon. According to the compressor map it will easily make a good boost curve and support 400Hp. But the turbo will be sent out to be modified to the TD06-20G-16cm^2 specs and compressor wheel, which will give a bit more lag on the bottom end (a small shot of N20 will help that!), but should peak at 24psi boost and flow enough air to make 550+Hp. The 3800 turbocharger setup will be Fabricated by Al and myself, we have welders, a plasma cutter, drill press and more-plus access to a Bridgeport Mill and other equipment using the factory tube manifolds with the original outlet cut off and welded over with a new stainless steel manifold/turbo mounting flange welded to a modified X over pipe, then from there out the turbo down pipe to exit at the left-rear exhaust tip. The right-rear exhaust tip is for the front 3100, and will be a 3800 when we get another donor vehicle. The Mitsubishi TD06 turbo will be cooled by the rear engine coolant, and provided oil from the oil press port (oil return will be welded into the side of the oil pan). Then on the Compressor side, a large K&N (8 inch diameter x 9 inches long) will feed the inlet through a 3-inch tube from the driver’s side of the rear engine’s radiator. From the Compressor outlet to a standard air to air intercooler mounted in front and below the rear radiator then to a Heliarc welded case (still working on the design-it wont be done till and ready, hopefully, for the 07 racing season) that will hold the Air Conditioning Evaporator that is currently in the dash and will be fed from the AC compressor on the front engine further cooling the hot compressed air and then piped to the throttle body of the 3800. In the beginning, extra fuel enrichment will be by one, or more, SAAB, or similar, cold-start fuel injectors engaged by Hobbs switches (pressure switch-adjustable) and adjusted with a wideband O2 sensor (the MS EFI will use the exact same sensor-to help us tune the fuel maps) rich enough to prevent engine damage. This should work adequately for 6-12 Psi of boost using a "Grainger" Boost control valve. Over 10-14 Psi will definitely require the MegaSquirt EFI system with ~45lb hr~ injectors, and with the new version of MegaSquirt’n’spark it will also be able to control a DIS ignition system and adjust the spark adv curves with it. Whether or not the 3800 short block will handle 24 Psi is up to debate, but from what I’ve seen of the Australian (Holden) SI 3800’s, 24 psi is possible. Interior & exterior, changes/modifications: For the present the interior is being left stock, to keep the tech inspector from getting too curious. Al still has to finish the new center console for the shifters, since we can’t afford two Hurst ratcheting narrow pistol grip shifters side by side, yet. The door panels have been stripped and will be redone as the factory seatbelts were removed. The factory carpet is being used but the OEM thermal/sound padding was removed and replaced with Cool-Tec thermal/acoustic barrier. The factory seats are modified to work with the 5 pt racing harnesses and are bolted to the factory mounts. With some speaker grills screwed to the rear firewall, it will make them think that it's a giant subwoofer box. The rest, the tech inspector doesn’t nitpick, after all he tends to think we're another FWD. They might look closer after the first run though as the sound of two V6's through open exhaust pipes is defiantly unique!!!! Right now we have a set of really light Pontiac GP Torque-Star rims with Dunlop 225 tires. Plus, we still have to do rear wheel wells/fender flares to fit new rims and 255, or wider, rear tires. Planning on flaring the front fenders to fit 245's at least, and for rims we are planning on some torque thrust II's or other Rally type aluminum rims for a vintage 442 vibe. We are also debating putting the 70 442 hood scoop on the front hood with the same year 442, rear deck wing/spoiler, narrowed to proper scale. Handling & Performance: Al did a couple WOT corners and said it handles real well. It corners completely level! This is also with the front sway bar and ventilated dual piston front brakes from the ‘90 Trofeo that are now in the back of the 442. That sway bar really keeps her level. The 442 weighs 4330lbs with Al and a half full fuel cell; we had removed a lot of stock weight like interior parts and rear floor pan/suspension and added a little more, the engine/transaxle/subframe. The 442 has run at the current weight, a 13.81 at 98.21 in 96+ degree heat and 60% humidity this is with a consistent 1.90s 60ft time. With the new throttle cable setup a 13.5 it is probably the best we can hope for until the 3800 gets turbocharged/nitrous; then it's a whole new ballgame. The best improvements in ET would be to get more power from the rear 3800 as the car, when it launches, tends to squat the rear, so to reduce 60-330ft times will really improve the ET. At some point we may yank the front engine and see how it does with just rear engine/drive. This will probably happen when we get a 3800 for the front. Al seems to think he may beat my Nova but I doubt it, as it is already hitting 13.5's at 102/103 with less than $3,500 in it right now. It will have a new plate Nitrous system and two new 8-inch slicks to help combat the traction problems (we have a spool and that helped), we have experienced. I still haven’t back-halved the nova to fit my two 33x18.5-15 MT ET Drag slicks on a Dana 44 rear to ditch that damn 8.5 10 bolt rear-end. We still have work to do, but at least she's ready for the drag strip, and we want to get some #’s! How do the engines work together? The way we figure it, the transmissions takes care of the differential in power bands and rev speed between the two engines, which are linked by the road. Basically, the more powerful engine ends up decreasing the load on the "slower" engine, thereby allowing it to rev faster and freer through the gears. We are pretty much using the torque of the 3800 to accelerate the car through the wheels that have the most weight transferred to them upon acceleration. That’s why we accelerate fast, even though the 3100 is spinning the front tires. The less load the 3100 has, because the 3800 is accelerating the car under WOT, the freer it is to rev and up shift when it needs, helping to pull the front of the car down the road/track faster. The stronger engine carries a proportionally larger portion of the vehicle’s mass. The 442 will always be a work in progress and it is truly a homebuilt ‘94 Olds Cutlass 442 (425 ci-4 wheel drive-2 (twin) engines). Not bad for Redneck/Low buck Hotroding! We are proud to be following in the footsteps of the Original Hurst “Hairy†Olds Twin 425cid V8 monster, a ‘66 Olds 442 that could spin the four tires the whole way down the quarter-mile! Link to see the 442 running video: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/privatesn123/442_2engines.zip Link to see the 442 DRIVING! http://oldsconnection.com/forum/post_files/442_Drives.zip Link to see the Driving video at CARCRAFT.COM, Readers Rides Live! http://www.carcraft.com/av/116_cc_live/index.html The most recent video of the 442 at US-41 dragway in Morrocco, IN can be found at: http://videos.streetfire.net/Player.aspx?fileid=02290DD0-992B-453F-B23D-9486F012 42C7 In conclusion, I think it's safe to say we have a 13-second, W-body Cutlass, sleeper, on our hands with a $3,500 total investment, So far, that is! Redneck Engine-uity for sure! James Williams, Al & Amanda Schiavo JAAWS Engineering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 wow that is a long post....I think I will wait until tomorrow to read it Go4DaMo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted May 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 wow that is a long post....I think I will wait until tomorrow to read it thats cause it's twice the W goodness sorry, it is really long...and i kept it to the minimum...you should see the detailed version Go4DaMo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patgizz Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 i think you're best off with matching engines. Go4DaMo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted May 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 i think you're best off with matching engines. if ya read it all....thats the goal... 462 cu inches....turbocharged [br]Posted on: May 01, 2006, 01:33:59 PM_________________________________________________ wow that is a long post....I think I will wait until tomorrow to read it so...your thoughts? does it sound complete enough? just looking fer feedback...thanks guys... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go4DaMo Posted October 26, 2023 Report Share Posted October 26, 2023 I want to see this car. None of the links work. Please advise. I'll drive there if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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