Watch out JUD im comming to get you... 100 MPH trap speed

[kuntzie]

well my goal was to hit 14.4 and i did it... i said if i did im getting a cam and port and polish.... the tgp is gunna get even faster... ya i need slicks too.. 1989 5-Speed Turbo grand Prix, i also have a 10" sub and box/ amp in the car as well as the spare tire, a jack and johnsonbar. i also hit a 14.803 at 97.24 MPH with a 220 lbs passenger.. no video camera this time but i did exacty 20 passes through the track only 5 hitting 14s and almost all the rest hitting 15.1-15.3

 

FASTEST 1/4 mile time

 

reaction time 1.5460

60 ft 2.2140

330 ft 6.1169

1/8 mile ET 9.3278

1/8 MPH 77.87

1/4 ET 14.4010

1/4 MPH 97.37

 

 

HIGHEST MPH

reaction time 1.1289

60 ft 2.4010

330 ft 6.4363

1/8 mile ET 9.6342

1/8 MPH ???

1/4 ET 14.6660

1/4 MPH 100.69

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[z284pwr]

well my goal was to hit 14.4 and i did it... i said if i did im getting a cam and port and polish.... the tgp is gunna get even faster... ya i need slicks too.. 1989 5-Speed Turbo grand Prix, i also have a 10" sub and box/ amp in the car as well as the spare tire, a jack and johnsonbar. i also hit a 14.803 at 97.24 MPH with a 220 lbs passenger.. no video camera this time but i did exacty 20 passes through the track only 5 hitting 14s and almost all the rest hitting 15.1-15.3

 

FASTEST 1/4 mile time

 

reaction time 1.5460

60 ft 2.2140

330 ft 6.1169

1/8 mile ET 9.3278

1/8 MPH 77.87

1/4 ET 14.4010

1/4 MPH 97.37

 

 

HIGHEST MPH

reaction time 1.1289

60 ft 2.4010

330 ft 6.4363

1/8 mile ET 9.6342

1/8 MPH ???

1/4 ET 14.6660

1/4 MPH 100.69

 

 

Ah, very nice indeed , however, gotta love the inconsistent times there, good thing you aren't bracket racing

 

A cam will make your life even worse with a 5spd BTW, hell our 3.1/5spd N/A is bad enough, you turbo 5spd guys are nuts.

 

Your poor turbo won't be very happy about the new air flow either

 

 

[kuntzie]

that turbo will be retired by the end of next month lol.. ya by best run was started in 2nd gear, didnt burn the clutch at all squeeled the tires for a good few seconds though. im also getting the manifolds proted slightly too. and ya no bracket racing for me yet. i still getting used to 5-speed driving, it was my first time at the track with 5 speed, and 3rd time ever. also ive been driving 5- speed for 3 months lol

[AWeb80]

Kuntzie, why not just do the 3400 swap or what ever.....?

[mfewtrail]

Nice trap! Did you add the rocker arms after buying the car or were they already in there? I'm gonna guess you added them since your 100.69mph trap is nearly 4mph than what skalor trapped(on this particular old timeslip I have of his http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/tgpslips/skalor_getrag.jpg ).

 

Do you mind if I add your 14.4 run to the TGP 1/4 mile list Jeff?

http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/

 

Also, what track did you run at? You and Dave need to race each other.

[TGPilot]

A cam will make your life even worse with a 5spd BTW, hell our 3.1/5spd N/A is bad enough, you turbo 5spd guys are nuts.

 

Why do people say a 5-speed makes things worse? Do some of you not know how to shift at all? I understand that an auto will allow you to mat your foot to the floor like a girl and just drive in a straight line down the strip...but if you know how to shift it allows you to put more power to the ground than a power robbing auto car.

 

Now with a performance shift kit and clutches in an auto I can see how it will help to not have the auto tranny slipped gears while it is upshifting...but I do not see any performance 4t60's on the market yet. Guess I will have to pick up that ball also here pretty soon (had stepped away from it with the false lures of someone else on this forum ).

 

OH KUNTZIE!...if you have only been driving a 5-speed for a few months and that was your "first" time to the strip with it you have my admiration!! That is awesome man! Good Looking car and FAST too!

[kuntzie]

Kuntzie, why not just do the 3400 swap or what ever.....?

IMO that is the stupidist thing to do as the turbo grand prix no longer looks factory. i want 12s on the stock looking top end might not happen but eventyally i will hit 12s. im told with slicks i would run constant 13s as my tires were actually burning out at the line many times.

 

Nice trap! Did you add the rocker arms after buying the car or were they already in there? I'm gonna guess you added them since your 100.69mph trap is nearly 4mph than what skalor trapped(on this particular old timeslip I have of his http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/tgpslips/skalor_getrag.jpg ).

 

Do you mind if I add your 14.4 run to the TGP 1/4 mile list Jeff?

http://home.alltel.net/mfewtrail/

 

Also, what track did you run at? You and Dave need to race each other.

skalor added the rockers and gutted the vat before he sold mr the car vut never got to the track. i will get a scan of the timeslips and u can post them no problem.

 

i went to st. thomas speedway. it was cold out (under 50 F for sure) not sure on the F but like 8*C for u canadians

the track is very low altitude somewhere around 500ft IIRC and skalors 14.6 was most likely over 2000 ft above sea level

 

A cam will make your life even worse with a 5spd BTW, hell our 3.1/5spd N/A is bad enough, you turbo 5spd guys are nuts.

 

Why do people say a 5-speed makes things worse? Do some of you not know how to shift at all? I understand that an auto will allow you to mat your foot to the floor like a girl and just drive in a straight line down the strip...but if you know how to shift it allows you to put more power to the ground than a power robbing auto car.

 

Now with a performance shift kit and clutches in an auto I can see how it will help to not have the auto tranny slipped gears while it is upshifting...but I do not see any performance 4t60's on the market yet. Guess I will have to pick up that ball also here pretty soon (had stepped away from it with the false lures of someone else on this forum ).

 

OH KUNTZIE!...if you have only been driving a 5-speed for a few months and that was your "first" time to the strip with it you have my admiration!! That is awesome man! Good Looking car and FAST too!

 

yup i know the car can do better as my 2-3 shift is my only slow shift. thanks aswell. and for everones info the car was indeed lowered while going down the track. thanks for the comments on the car BTW. I will definitly have Videos up next time i go

[skalor]

Good times!!! I can wait to see what she can do once that cork of a turbo is replaced.

[Guest TurboSedan]

damn good job Jeff! with a 100mph trap i would think you should be able to reach 13s with no other mods - just get that 60ft down with some slicks.

 

i've thought about trying to launch in 2nd gear but i'd be afraid of burning my clutch up. it's just a stock clutch so i'm lucky enough as it is that it's holding up.

 

i'd love to see what your TGP puts down on the dynojet.

[GOT2B GM]

Nice times Jeff, next time you plan on going, give me a call. I want to make a few passes with my TGP.

[kuntzie]

damn good job Jeff! with a 100mph trap i would think you should be able to reach 13s with no other mods - just get that 60ft down with some slicks.

 

i've thought about trying to launch in 2nd gear but i'd be afraid of burning my clutch up. it's just a stock clutch so i'm lucky enough as it is that it's holding up.

 

i'd love to see what your TGP puts down on the dynojet.

 

 

im going in for a more recent dyno tomorrow for a before and after of my head and intake work... the shop that is doing it for me is gaurentees me 60 WHP with the work stated and a crane cam ( 2020 or 2030) i could go more agressive too but i dont know for sure what to go with.

also i got slicks for the next time i go to the track.... within 2 weeks. i hope with the work done and the slicks to shave a whole second of my 1/4 milei know it sounds un realistic but the slicks should hit me a 13 right there so i dont know for sure + my times got better through the nihgt as i didnt hit 14 till the 15th run

[skalor]

I had issues when I got the car dynoed, which is the graph above. I had an SES light that I thought was just the VSS code that I kept getting, but I also had a code 42 or 43, I can't remember which one. Basically, I was losing 7 degrees or so of intial advance. I don't think 171 hp & 206 ftlbs of torque could make a 3390 lb car plus driver run a 14.6. I'm anxious to see what she makes, so be sure and post the graph.

[kuntzie]

TIMESLIPS! (click to inlarge)

 

 

[z284pwr]

A cam will make your life even worse with a 5spd BTW, hell our 3.1/5spd N/A is bad enough, you turbo 5spd guys are nuts.

 

Why do people say a 5-speed makes things worse? Do some of you not know how to shift at all? I understand that an auto will allow you to mat your foot to the floor like a girl and just drive in a straight line down the strip...but if you know how to shift it allows you to put more power to the ground than a power robbing auto car.

 

Now with a performance shift kit and clutches in an auto I can see how it will help to not have the auto tranny slipped gears while it is upshifting...but I do not see any performance 4t60's on the market yet. Guess I will have to pick up that ball also here pretty soon (had stepped away from it with the false lures of someone else on this forum ).

 

Well, I guess I just fail to see how losing a mere 100 pounds is really worth the trouble for 1. 2, Yes I do know how to drive, but I do also know that spinning tires is NOT how you go fast Oh and I do also realize that shifting isn't just the thing, its actually putting the power TO the GROUND.....not much power is being put the ground if the tires are just spinning. No much power then huh, nope. I'm all for manuals when it will hook up, but when you spin the tires through 1st and 2nd gear, your tires wasted spinning the tires doesn't help get you any E.T. Notice how the 5spd cars really don't have much advantage or any faster than the automatics. because they aren't getting the traction thanks to the gearing just spinning the tires.

 

I guess I have just been around drag racing enough to realize that I don't care if you have an automatic or a manual, if the power isn't being submitted to the ground, what’s the point it don't matter? Yes, an automatic does rob power, yes they are heavier, yes you can get a 5spd to shift just as fast yourself but in the long run, what does it gain you if you are short shifting every gear just to get traction or you are just spinning the tires through the most valuable part of your E.T.? No much gained there shifting and putting the car out of its power range or just spinning your E.T. away.

 

So lets see here, how does a 5spd make it worse again.....You have too much power, not enough traction, you just spin the tires so you slow down. Hence why I said a 5spd is hell and adding a cam will make it worse because it will add more power making the already bad traction issue even worse right. Oh and we can get into the Auto-X issue to, SAME thing, what good will the manual shifting gain you when you get up off a corner, get on it and it just spins, losing time....

 

However, like I said, still very nice times. Look at that 100 MPH trap, that’s killer, look at the E.T. though, what does that tell someone right away, terrible traction in the 1st 60 feet then it hooked up and took off like a freight train. Now look at the fastest E.T., he gained TWO tenths and LOST 3 MPH. He had a .187 faster 60ft time and GAINED .265 in E.T. just from better traction. Why, because he started in 2nd gear, he has lost an entire gear and is just using the same gearing that the automatic has except you are putting more stress on the drive train and clutch. Same thing will go with Auto-X, you get out of the hole with more traction, and you will get to the next corner in LESS time.

 

Slicks is a whole different story though, surely a 5spd with slicks would do some serious times, if the trans doesn't break the trans of course.

 

So I'll continue to stand by my philosophy, high powered/torque cars: Automatic > Manual.

 

Considering we have a 3.1 N/A 5spd and a 3.1 N/A Auto, the 5spd I think I have a pretty good point, the 5spd is eons faster in this case. However, add the 100HP/TQ and the Turbo/Auto suddenly has no problem keeping right up out of the line, plus doesn't have the traction issues from the 60ft to 330ft which is where the bulk of the good E.T. comes from as shown in the timeslips above.

 

Okay, sorry, end rant, I just had to defend my opinion on why a 5spd would be hell.

 

Oh yeah, if I deciphered you message right about a performance auto and trying to build one, good luck I am definitely interested in any info/parts you may have come across and selling?

[jeremy]

those are some nice runs

[TGPilot]

 

Okay, sorry, end rant, I just had to defend my opinion on why a 5spd would be hell.

 

Oh yeah, if I deciphered you message right about a performance auto and trying to build one, good luck I am definitely interested in any info/parts you may have come across and selling?

 

No rant...just voicing your opinion man! I am a die-hard manual driver. I have been racing and driving manuals on road courses and drag strips most of my life. When I was put into an auto race car once I never felt such a lack of control than I did in that thing. Kitted auto's do work great...but to me a manual I can do much much more with a car!

 

As far as the auto trannies go...I am picking up the ball there because I am getting emails regularly about that also. The 5-speed is doing real well in testing 616ft/lbs at the input shaft at 7000RPM and 4000 lbs simulated load.

[Guest TurboSedan]

IMO that is the stupidist thing to do as the turbo grand prix no longer looks factory. i want 12s on the stock looking top end might not happen but eventyally i will hit 12s. im told with slicks i would run constant 13s as my tires were actually burning out at the line many times.

 

i hear ya there. i don't want to upgrade to 3x00 top-end because i personally think the 3.1 MPFI plenum just looks alot nicer. not to mention the "3.1 Intercooled Turbo" is kind of nice too

 

but...it has to go considering my plans for the car...particularly the turbocharger. i'm REALLY liking the GT3071R-WG. same big turbine that Jud has with his GT3076R-WG (biggest available with T25 inlet flange as far as i know) but a smaller compressor side. still alot bigger compressor (and turbine of course) than the GT28RS or even the GT2871R though. basically i want the biggest turbine available (with T25 inlet flange) but don't want to go too overkill with the compressor. with the GT3071R-WG compressor i'm almost afraid it would surge considering how shitty the MPFI intake flows so just another reason it's gotta go.

 

i want to be able to make power to 6k and i don't think it's gonna happen with the MPFI heads/intake. in my car you can practically feel the torque drop off right after it hits its peak at 3200 RPM. it just doesn't keep on pulling hard (like it hits a wall) and there is just no point to letting it go past 5000 RPM. i'm hoping the 3x00 top-end and bigger turbo will help with that...even at the expense of losing torque and more turbo lag. which might just be a good thing in terms of traction.

 

i still love 5-speeds despite the Getrag 282 is just geared too damn steep for the LG5 (IMHO). i wish there was a numerically lower FDR we could use. i know i have bitched alot about this but to be honest i really have alot of things i could do that would help alot - new struts, better/wider tires, L-body 1st & 2nd gears, and staged boost control at least in 1st gear. moving the power band up a little with 3x00 top-end and larger turbo might let me run full (12psi) boost in 2nd gear without ripping up the tires. or maybe not. we'll see but one thing is sure - those torque happy long skinny MPFI intake runners and super-ultra-quick spooling stock turbo aren't helping traction one bit and they are definately hurting the top-end.

 

not saying you can't hit 12s with the stock heads/intake at all, but i think 3x00 would be worth it. after all it's just bolt on.

 

[kuntzie]

u know how you cant port all the way through the intakes.....for an extra 250 bucks the will cut them open and put them back together after they completely port them... my car pulls very hard as it is right now, i can put in in 2nd so its at 4k and punch it and squeel the tires for a good while..no way a 3x00 top end will touch my car

[z284pwr]

u know how you cant port all the way through the intakes.....for an extra 250 bucks the will cut them open and put them back together after they completely port them... my car pulls very hard as it is right now, i can put in in 2nd so its at 4k and punch it and squeel the tires for a good while..no way a 3x00 top end will touch my car

 

X2

 

I just fail to see the worthiness of 17 CM gained over the 3400 heads. *I hope I can read the 60*V6 store flowsheets properly. I have ported Gen II heads and Intakes myself, plus the cam and there is a noticeable difference on top end as compared to stock. This is basing both off of the same car and transmission too so I think its a pretty fair assumption. Its fast enough for me, I'll stick with a GT2871R as it matched up to my engine really good throughout the powerband so I'll keep my intakes and just step down a turbo and call it a day

 

 

[skalor]

u know how you cant port all the way through the intakes.....for an extra 250 bucks the will cut them open and put them back together after they completely port them... my car pulls very hard as it is right now, i can put in in 2nd so its at 4k and punch it and squeel the tires for a good while..no way a 3x00 top end will touch my car

 

I wanted to respond as well that my former car actually pulls very well up top. I think when Jeff came to pick up the car he was surprised at how much it pulled in the upper rpms.

[kuntzie]

u know how you cant port all the way through the intakes.....for an extra 250 bucks the will cut them open and put them back together after they completely port them... my car pulls very hard as it is right now, i can put in in 2nd so its at 4k and punch it and squeel the tires for a good while..no way a 3x00 top end will touch my car

 

I wanted to respond as well that my former car actually pulls very well up top. I think when Jeff came to pick up the car he was surprised at how much it pulled in the upper rpms.

 

 

Josh, Should i make them a video???? and did u ever try a 2nd sear start?[br]Posted on: May 03, 2006, 02:16:55 PM_________________________________________________also ya the car is crazy in the upper RPMs.... also just to let everone lnow my disco ptoato arrived in the mail about an hour ago, as well as a new manual boost controller

[futuretgper]

http://www.turbograndprix.com/new_page_2.htm <------- Jeff M's work (it has been posted before)

 

Gen III P&P his UltraFlow Gen II's are pretty close...at the very least, from his numbers, his heads are better than stock 3x00 heads and close to a GenIII with P&P...

[Garrett Powered]

DAMN, I dont remember seeing all those comparisons on that chart! I am seriously looking into getting those ultra flow gen IIs. I tried to talk to Jeff about them heads like three-four years ago and I knew it would probably be like 1200 -1400 bucks, but now I got another motor and the cash so I am ready to do it up. anybody got the ultra flow IIs besides Jeff M?

[LukeZ34]

Damnit.. all this 5 speed talk makes me want another one..

[Guest TurboSedan]

http://www.turbograndprix.com/new_page_2.htm <------- Jeff M's work (it has been posted before)

 

Gen III P&P his UltraFlow Gen II's are pretty close...at the very least' date=' from his numbers, his heads are better than [b']stock[/b] 3x00 heads and close to a GenIII with P&P...

 

well, it would be nice if they were available but as far as i know they aren't. and they are expensive too, which isn't surprising really considering it would probably take alot of work to get the GEN-II heads/intake to flow that well.

 

today i found a 2001 LG8 3100 at the local j/y. complete top-end for $150 so i'm taking this route instead of messing with the stock stuff.

 

oh kuntzie i believe you when you say your car pulls very well up top - your time slips show it. i guess i was basing my comments more on my experience with my engine sorry.