Guest TurboSedan Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 well my hopes of using a Getrag 282 from a J/L-body went right out the window. my brother and i went down to Denver today to go junkyarding. i immediately found a 2.8/5-speed Beretta and found some big problems: - the slave cylinder setup is way different. on a W-body 282, the slave cylinder attatches to the transmission and actuates the throwout bearing shaft inside the bellhousing. however, on an L-body 282, the slave cylinder mounts onto a bracket, and actuates the throwout bearing outside of the bellhousing! hard to explain but it's very easy to see once you take a quick look underhood. now for a minute there i was thinking that i could simply switch over to the L-body style slave setup (which would require swapping out the TO bearing shaft too), but there is one big problem with that - the slave cylinder and bracket is placed right where the turbocharger on an LG5 engine would be - the other HUGE problem is the L-body 282 case itself. it simply CANNOT be used in a W-body because there is nowhere to bolt up a W-body 282 tranny mount. there isn't even a boss there that you could drill & tap - the case appears to be a completely different casting. the L-body 282 doesn't use a mount that sits between the cradle and transmission itself like a W-body 282 does. it uses what looks like a dogbone style mount on the front lower side of the transmission, and another one on top of the transmission in front of the throttle body. the upper tranny mount actually doubles as the slave cylinder bracket. i must have found at least 10 Getrag 282s in Berettas and Corsicas. every one of them was between '88-'90 so a later year L-body may be different. i did not find any Getrag 282s in J-bodies, however i did find a '91-ish 2.0/Isuzu 5-speed Cavalier and it had the same wierd external slave cylinder type that the L-bodies had. one thing i noticed was that the Izuzu trans (RPO MK7) looks wayyy different than a Getrag 282. i only found one W-body Getrag 282 which was in an '88 or '89 Grand Prix. i grabbed the shifter, cables and shifter boot from that car so i would have some extras. the j/y that had this GP was selling transmissions for $29.99 today but i decided not to pull it. fluid was pretty low/dirty and the outer end cap for the TO bearing shaft was missing. likely would have needed a full rebuild so i didn't bother with it since i already have an extra perfectly good W-body 282 sitting in my garage at the moment. anyway, i think the only way you could gain the benefit of the L-body 282's lower 1st and 2nd gear ratio (numerically) would be to have L-body 282 internals installed into a W-body 282 case. or at the very least get the W-body 282 rebuilt using 1st and 2nd gears from a J/L body 282. i am not sure if this is possible or not? my quest for easier launching and more traction in 2nd gear will have to rely on wider 245s and staged boost control. so stock W-body 282 gearing for now....at least until i need to get my 282 rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 You should be able to swap out the internals into a w-body case. I was thinking that might end up being a problem. Changing out the gears really isn't that hard to do so it wouldn't be a big deal. Probably would be worth the time & effort so you have useable gears. If I ever go 5 speed I will definately be modifying the gears a little. I am thinking about changing around a few of the gears, considering all of the different 282 gear ratio combos there were available, I can make just about any gears I want. I'm glad you figured out it won't physically fit though. Saves me some time. Thanks. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 You should be able to swap out the internals into a w-body case. I was thinking that might end up being a problem. Changing out the gears really isn't that hard to do so it wouldn't be a big deal. Probably would be worth the time & effort so you have useable gears. If I ever go 5 speed I will definately be modifying the gears a little. I am thinking about changing around a few of the gears, considering all of the different 282 gear ratio combos there were available, I can make just about any gears I want. I'm glad you figured out it won't physically fit though. Saves me some time. Thanks. Shawn yeah i would like to do just that. i'll have to look into it more because i really don't know anything about the internals at all. it's too bad we can't get a numerically lower FDR. 3.61 is as low as it gets. according to 60*V6 the J/L V6 282 has these ratios: 1st - 3.50 2nd - 2.05 3rd - 1.38 4th - 0.94 5th - 0.72 FDR - 3.61 W-body 282 V6: 1st - 3.77 2nd - 2.19 3rd - 1.38 4th - 1.03 5th - 0.81 FDR - 3.61 if i were to have one built i would like it to have this: 1st - 3.50 2nd - 2.05 3rd - 1.38 4th - 1.03 5th - 0.72 FDR - 3.61 ...basically build a hybrid 282 using 1st, 2nd & 5th gear from the J/L version of the 282 along with 4th gear from the W-body 282 all installed into a W-body 282 case. there is only one ratio for 3rd gear available so no choice there (and i wouldn't change it anyway). if having one built this way is possible then i might have to go get me an L-body 282 after all. i'll have to run this by the transmission shop here and see what they think.[br]Posted on: April 11, 2006, 12:25:06 PM_________________________________________________well i stopped by ATS here in Gillette and he told me that it should be no problem to rebuild it using different gears from an L-body since it's the same transmission internally. he said the rebuilt kits were around $150 and it called for 4.9hrs labor ($60/hr). so about $450 to have it rebuilt the way i want it. i'll have to make another trip to Denver sometime soon. there seems to be no shortage of L-body Getrag 282s there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I had another problem with the J/L/Fiero trans to W 282 swap. The thing I found was that the W inner axles don't fit in the other carline's trans!! Everyone on Pennocks said I was crazy but I had a fresh 88 fiero getrag and a 89 cutlass intl getrag next to each other and I can tell you 100% that the axles don't swap. I can't seem to find inner joint part numbers, but I suspect if I could they wouldn't be the same. I am gonna pick up a couple more W transes from a bud and hopefully a J/L so I can build the trans I want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 damn, I know what I'm doing to my getrag before I put it in... thanks a lot for the info Josh! better highway mileage to boot too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 I had another problem with the J/L/Fiero trans to W 282 swap. The thing I found was that the W inner axles don't fit in the other carline's trans!! Everyone on Pennocks said I was crazy but I had a fresh 88 fiero getrag and a 89 cutlass intl getrag next to each other and I can tell you 100% that the axles don't swap. I can't seem to find inner joint part numbers, but I suspect if I could they wouldn't be the same. I am gonna pick up a couple more W transes from a bud and hopefully a J/L so I can build the trans I want good to know that would have sucked to find out the axles were different after you already had the transmission back in the car! anyways, i'm determined to get this 282 built with the gears i want. it sucks not being able to put the power down in 2nd gear i'll probably still spin in 1st gear but at least the car should be easier to launch. lower RPM in 5th would be nice too. right now it's at about 2700 RPM in 5th gear at 75mph according to my UB3 cluster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianteel Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 well if you asked me first i would have told you it would not have worked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 i like seeing 1st hand i mentioned wanting to use an L-body 282 a few times but never actually made a post about it. i actually went down to Denver with my brother to find a 3.50 FDR A523 5-speed for his Spirit R/T and thought i would try to get a 5-speed from a Beretta if it looked like it would work. which it didn't of course. my brother pretty much had the same luck. the only A523 we found was in a Shadow that had 233,000 miles. it sucked coming back pretty much empty handed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossman429 Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Dang, Josh....doesn't sound like you guys had a whole lot of luck. You could be the first to have a 282 HYBRID trans! Good luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 my brother and i got his trans today from a j/y down in Douglas. we managed to pull the A523 out of an Acclaim in 2hrs and they only charged him $60. not bad. this is for an A523/A568 hybrid trans going into his Spirit R/T. i found another '88 Beretta GT with a Getrag 282 while i was there and will be going back for it soon. at least i don't have to drive all the way down to Denver! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontiacjeff Posted October 11, 2006 Report Share Posted October 11, 2006 Sorry to dig this up, but it's worthy of continued discussion. I just found a 88 GP SE 2.8/5-speed. I am awaiting it's day at auction. Something needs to be cleared up about the gear ratios. All I have read, heard of, and seen regarding the 282 gear ratios is the 3.77 does not exist. Please, someone, anyone, quote me directly from GM published text that the actual W-body gear ratios are 3.77/2.19/1.38/1.03/.81 with the 3.61FDR. I am working on THE definitive Getrag ID for web publication. So far I have been able to confirm only this: the V-6 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/.94/.72/3.61 (87-94 FWD, 86-88 Fiero) the 2.0L turbo box: 3.50/2.19/1.38/.94/.72/3.61 (87-90 Sunbird, GA, Skyhawk) the std. Quad 4 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/1.03/.81/3.61 (87-9? Olds, Buick, Pontiac, Chevy) the HO Quad 4 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/1.03/.81/3.94 (late '91-94 only) the W-body V-6 box: ???/???/???/???/???/??? the W-body Quad 4 box: ???/???/???/???/???/??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted October 12, 2006 Report Share Posted October 12, 2006 I'm almost 100% positive that the W-body Quad4 box has the same ratios as the W-body v6 box. you can literally get about 43mph at 6500rpm in a Quad 4 w-body with 215/60R16 tires in 1st gear. I think that's about right with the 3.77:1 first and the 3.61:1 FDR It also runs 78mph is exactly 3k on the tach in 5th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Sorry to dig this up, but it's worthy of continued discussion. I just found a 88 GP SE 2.8/5-speed. I am awaiting it's day at auction. Something needs to be cleared up about the gear ratios. All I have read, heard of, and seen regarding the 282 gear ratios is the 3.77 does not exist. Please, someone, anyone, quote me directly from GM published text that the actual W-body gear ratios are 3.77/2.19/1.38/1.03/.81 with the 3.61FDR. I am working on THE definitive Getrag ID for web publication. So far I have been able to confirm only this: the V-6 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/.94/.72/3.61 (87-94 FWD, 86-88 Fiero) the 2.0L turbo box: 3.50/2.19/1.38/.94/.72/3.61 (87-90 Sunbird, GA, Skyhawk) the std. Quad 4 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/1.03/.81/3.61 (87-9? Olds, Buick, Pontiac, Chevy) the HO Quad 4 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/1.03/.81/3.94 (late '91-94 only) the W-body V-6 box: ???/???/???/???/???/??? the W-body Quad 4 box: ???/???/???/???/???/??? Hm, Jeff.. you wouldn't be the one working on my buddy Brandon's transmission, are you? Were you the one who did John K's tranny? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 13, 2006 Report Share Posted October 13, 2006 Sorry to dig this up, but it's worthy of continued discussion. I just found a 88 GP SE 2.8/5-speed. I am awaiting it's day at auction. Something needs to be cleared up about the gear ratios. All I have read, heard of, and seen regarding the 282 gear ratios is the 3.77 does not exist. Please, someone, anyone, quote me directly from GM published text that the actual W-body gear ratios are 3.77/2.19/1.38/1.03/.81 with the 3.61FDR. I am working on THE definitive Getrag ID for web publication. So far I have been able to confirm only this: the V-6 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/.94/.72/3.61 (87-94 FWD, 86-88 Fiero) the 2.0L turbo box: 3.50/2.19/1.38/.94/.72/3.61 (87-90 Sunbird, GA, Skyhawk) the std. Quad 4 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/1.03/.81/3.61 (87-9? Olds, Buick, Pontiac, Chevy) the HO Quad 4 box: 3.50/2.05/1.38/1.03/.81/3.94 (late '91-94 only) the W-body V-6 box: ???/???/???/???/???/??? the W-body Quad 4 box: ???/???/???/???/???/??? i got my numbers from 60*V6.com: http://60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=25036 who knows though, they might be wrong! the 3.77 1st gear in the W-body makes sense though, after all it's in a heavier car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassdude96 Posted October 14, 2006 Report Share Posted October 14, 2006 the LO Quad4 was only a 3sp auto in the w-body Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 I saw a 5speed Z24, and saw the slave today. WTF, its wierd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 yeah, that's the external slave cylinder. it actually mounts on the same bracket as the transmission mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBULS Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 L Body transmissions switched to a different slave cylinder in 92..............might want to keep looking. I do believe the case stayed the same through all the years though. As for 60* numbers, they are copies of a post I made on a Beretta forum a while back, and are correct..............my info came from a number of different sources, including service manuals and older articles in mags............but I've cross-checked just about all of them in one way or another BTW......... *I* want to put a 282 into my GP (I think the 284's gears are dogshit) with a 92-94 Q4 gearset................so apparently I need a W-Body tranny and the guts of a newer Q4.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 17, 2006 Report Share Posted October 17, 2006 I do believe the case stayed the same through all the years though. the J/L body 282s i've seen have no place to bolt on a W-body transmission mount (on the bottom). i would like to have J/L V6/282 gears installed in my W-body case. i hate that 3.77 1st gear even 2nd gear is too steep for me (or maybe i just need better tires lol). more overdrive in 5th would also be nice for highway mileage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted October 19, 2006 Report Share Posted October 19, 2006 the LO Quad4 was only a 3sp auto in the w-body Ours are both HO's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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