Help me make this work

[backyardpb]

Hey guys, my beretta tgp project is near completed, the engine and trans are bolted in and my custom made engine mount is holding, i just got the downpipe, crossover and turbo, and lines all fit. Im still puzzled on a couple of things.

1. my pcm prom/chip is still programed for the 91 beretta gtz with auto trans. I have installed a getrag 282 5speed from an 89 beretta. after doing so I never flashed the prom for the 5speed swap. Now I have an engine from a 1990 tgp. I was not able to obtain the engine wiring harness from the tgp nor the chip/prom.

2. How am im going to go about controlling the boost? aftermarket boost controller? from what I understand the tgp chip controls that solenoid bolted to the plenum to control boost right?

3. What should I do about my pcm/prom/chip?

4. EGR system, would running a chip programmed for a tgp beable to run my 91 egr valve and engine harness? should i just egr delete?

5. Blow off valves, recommended? needed?

I need some help fellas, the weather is looking good and so is my bank account. I need to get this car on the road.

 

[Intlcutlass]

I would recoment a blow off valve for sure....

 

It will keep the turbo spun up between shifts, and elongate the life of the turbo.

 

The other stuff I cannot intelligently say, and I don't want to misguide you...

 

 

[Guest TurboSedan]

Hey guys, my beretta tgp project is near completed, the engine and trans are bolted in and my custom made engine mount is holding, i just got the downpipe, crossover and turbo, and lines all fit. Im still puzzled on a couple of things.

1. my pcm prom/chip is still programed for the 91 beretta gtz with auto trans.

 

i thought the GTZ was HO Quad-4/5-speed only?

 

I have installed a getrag 282 5speed from an 89 beretta. after doing so I never flashed the prom for the 5speed swap. Now I have an engine from a 1990 tgp. I was not able to obtain the engine wiring harness from the tgp nor the chip/prom.

2. How am im going to go about controlling the boost? aftermarket boost controller? from what I understand the tgp chip controls that solenoid bolted to the plenum to control boost right?

3. What should I do about my pcm/prom/chip?

4. EGR system, would running a chip programmed for a tgp beable to run my 91 egr valve and engine harness? should i just egr delete?

5. Blow off valves, recommended? needed?

I need some help fellas, the weather is looking good and so is my bank account. I need to get this car on the road.

 

 

you'll definately need a TGP chip (or at least some way of adding fuel & timing). you would melt the pistons pronto if you try to run the turbo 3.1 on regular NA 3.1 chip. you'll also need a 2-bar MAP sensor of course. also, you really won't be able to use a regular TGP chip since you have a 5-speed. you'll need to edit the TGP chip (of find someone that will for you until you have the stuff to do it yourself) for use with a 5-speed or you'll have some issues. for a project like this i would look look into getting an ALDL cable and datalogging software so you can see for yourself what is going on and what changes need to be made.

 

you don't really need a TGP wiring harness. from what i can tell the only thing different about the TGP wiring harness is that it has a plug for the wastegate solenoid (not needed if you use a MBC), the MAP sensor plug is a little different, 02 sensor plug and AIT sensor plug is in a different place, and it uses vacuum EGR. you could probably use an '89+ NA 2.8/3.1 wiring harness if you use a MBC, lengthen the O2 sensor wire and AIT wires, and then modify the existing MAP sensor plug so it fits the 2-bar MAP sensor. it also has different plugs for the primary fan and intercooler fan but i don't know if that will really matter since this is going into a Beretta.

 

i use a $35 MBC from M&M Racing. i am actually using a TGP engine harness but the wastegate solenoid plug is unused/tucked out of the way. as for EGR, i think there is a way of converting the digital EGR to vacuum EGR but i'm not sure what needs to be done. although like you mentioned - you could just disable the EGR function in the chip.

 

definately use a BOV. you can probably get a 1g DSM BOV from ebay for like $20 or find one in a salvage yard for less than that. i thought the 1g DSM BOV was annoying so i went aftermarket.

 

otherwise...we need more info. you are using TGP injectors aren't you? regular NA 3.1 injectors will not cut it.

[backyardpb]

The injectors I am using are the TGP injectors, extending the air temp, and o2 sensor wires is no problem. Luckly the engine came with the 2 bar map sensor still attached with wires so I can modify that to work.

I suppose my only problem is trying to obtain a chip from a tgp, and to my understanding a tgp chip from a 1990 tgp ecu will fit my

91 beretta ecu correct?

 

 

Im also going to just delete my EGR - were I live emissions are not tested.

[slick]

Hey guys, my beretta tgp project is near completed, the engine and trans are bolted in and my custom made engine mount is holding, i just got the downpipe, crossover and turbo, and lines all fit. Im still puzzled on a couple of things.

1. my pcm prom/chip is still programed for the 91 beretta gtz with auto trans.

 

i thought the GTZ was HO Quad-4/5-speed only?

 

They were also available in a 3.1/5speed combo also.

[GOT2B GM]

I thought GTZ's were either Q4 MTX or 3.1 ATX

[backyardpb]

As far as I know the 91 gtz 3.1 liter did not come with the 5 speed option, I did a trans swap from an 89 beretta.

 

lol can we stay on topic tho...

 

another question,when I bought the engine from the yard they had the exhaust manifolds removed, they didnt give me a gasket that goes between the turbo and x-over nor was there a gasket for the turbo exhaust out to the down pipe. Will they seal with out gaskets or is there suppose to be a gasket there? were would I get these?

 

[Guest TurboSedan]

that's fine - there is no gasket between the turbine housing and crossover pipe or between the turbine housing and downpipe.

 

i would think a TGP chip would work in your ECM but i don't know enough about L-bodies to be sure.

[Bossman429]

I thought GTZ's were either Q4 MTX or 3.1 ATX

You are correct!

GTZ Q4 only got a 5 speed

GTZ 3.1 only got auto. The only way you could get an auto GTZ was w/ the 3.1/Auto

 

3.1/ 5 speed were available in the base Berettas, and are possible in a GT, but highly unlikely. I believe an Auto trans was a part of one of the GT option packages available. A GT 5 speed would have been ordered specially, but I wouldn't mind having one.

[z284pwr]

I thought GTZ's were either Q4 MTX or 3.1 ATX

You are correct!

GTZ Q4 only got a 5 speed

GTZ 3.1 only got auto. The only way you could get an auto GTZ was w/ the 3.1/Auto

 

3.1/ 5 speed were available in the base Berettas, and are possible in a GT, but highly unlikely. I believe an Auto trans was a part of one of the GT option packages available. A GT 5 speed would have been ordered specially, but I wouldn't mind having one.

 

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner

 

GTs did come with 5spds but yes they seem to be quite rare.....

 

Black '92 GT 5spd W26 *GTZ/INDY FE7 Suspension*, 3.1 with TGP manifolds/crossover turbo - 5spd > *.Beretta.....

 

Oh yeah, the L-body ECU Should work, however, I dunno about the wiring up of the boost controller, but with a 5spd, just get a MBC one like suggested and you should be okay, keep it mellow around 7 psi or so and you should be fine, as you will have more traction problems than 10-12psi would warrant anyways

[backyardpb]

K guys, my ecu part number is 01227730, I found a junkyard near me that has an ecu from a tgp. the tgp was an automatic however.

Should I purchase this ecu and use the prom from it? will a prom programed for an auto work ok even tho I have a 5speed?

 

I never really had any issues with my car after I did the 5speed swap, I never had the prom programmed for the 5speed setup.

 

I work at a chevorlet dealership and I attmepted to enter a TGP's vin in TIS (what gm uses for service programing) spo I could burn a new prom. I couldnt get one TGP vin to work? weird.

 

 

[TGPilot]

I have a very basic AZRC .bin with the 5-speed flags set and the followers in to allow for a "decent" drive with a 5-speed LG5 setup.

 

I am currently trying to rework the Auto LG5 chip to be completely 5-speed and no auto parameters involved. This will allow for much better on-off throttle behaviors. It will work like a 5-speed chip instead of a hacked auto trying to control a 5-speed.

 

I do not have it on my laptop...it is on the office PC so I will get it posted later today.

 

 

[backyardpb]

im trying to find a TGP chip from my local yards, I called many places, they have ecus from 1990 and 1989 grand prixs, but they are not sure if they came from a TGP. There telling me to come match mine up, I told them I would need the vin numbers that the ecus came from to determine if one is for a tgp, are there any numbers on the proms that I would be able to use to distinguish if it is a tgp ecu?[br]Posted on: April 03, 2006, 12:24:26 PM_________________________________________________Ok guys, found a junk yard with a TGP, in grand prixs the the ecus are located on the right side under the hood right?

 

 

[TGPilot]

Yup...Passengers side under the fender well plastic cover. Three 10mm nuts. You might bring a small flatblade screw-driver to help get the wiring plugs loose.

 

You might also want to grab the ECM mounting bracket so you have something to hold it in place when you do your install.

[backyardpb]

well, I got my TGP ECU, swapped memcals. I ran my battery cable to the trunk, started plugging in connectors, then I came about another little problem, lol . My brake booster hose used to go into the plenum, the tgp plenum does not have the tube for the brake booster hose, was there a reason for this? was the vaccum supplied elsewere for booster, are the boosters on tgps hydroboost?

As far as I know I wouldnt think that running my booster directely from the plenum would affect anything.

 

 

For you guys that use blow off valves were is the best place to put it in the turbo plumbing?

 

 

Thats all the questions I have for now. Sorry If I sound like im nagging on you guys, its just that im not really familer with TGP's.

Im down to the little things that are making me scratch my head every now and then.

Thanks fellas

[Bossman429]

TGPs were hydro boost, no vacuum to the brake booster. I have heard that there is just a plug in the back of the intake, take the plug out and use it like normal. Others who have done this may chime in.

 

A BOV can really go on any charge pipe, but many people put them on the pipe from turbo outlet to the intercooler inlet. It is out of the way down there, just make sure you test fit so it will mount up without running into anything. It's really a matter of preference on where you put the thing. Wherever it is conveinient to mount. I have a BOV on my GTS on the pipe from intercooler outlet to the throttle body, and it works fine there.

[joberlee]

TGPs were hydro boost,

 

Um... I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree with you on that one.

 

TGPs used the fabulous Power Master 3 ABS system. It uses electric boost and the abs is all in the master cylinder as one unit, not a hydroboost. You can run your booster from the manifold, but a new brake booster check valve might be a good idea.

[Bossman429]

I wanted to say electric boost, but chose to use the poster's words, so he would know what I was talking about.

It all boils down to the same conclusion, no vacuum booster.

[joberlee]

i hit the button to post my comment and it said there was a new comment posted while i was writing. So i took the opportunity to correct the terminology being used. Nothing personal.

[backyardpb]

Ok, so im running my brake booster like it was on the NA 3.1 plenum. Come time to install my boost controller, blow off valve and boost guage heres a couple more questions that im sure of but not exactley.

 

Boost guage - When installing the boost guage where should the hose run? Im assuming that brass elbow on the turbo.

 

Boost Controller - Im going to be using a manual boost controller, how exactely do these control the wastegate actuator?

 

Blow off valve - Im going to assume that any engine source vaccum line ran to this would operate the BOV correctely. Im assuming that once the throttle is snapped closed, the extra vaccum created at this point actuates the blow off valve diaphram releasing the boost that will smash back into the turbine into the atmosphere. Its the engine vaccum that releases the boost not the boost itself correct?

if this is the case, wouldnt it be wise to have an adjustablem BOV such as a Greddy type rs?

 

This weekend I plan on starting the car for the first time, I just need some spark plug wires and plugs. Any reccomendations?

 

You guys have defenitly reduced the time I use scratching my head! Thanks for your help

- Kevin

 

[TGPilot]

Boost Gauge and BOV can be on the same pressure/vacuum circuit. On a 5-speed car you no longer need the VERY NICE port where the vacuum modulator once plugged in at the throttle body. It makes a perfect place to control the BOV. I will take pictures of mine tonight to show you how I routed my line.

 

Now the boost controller needs to be on that brass elbow you were talking about hooking up the BOV and gauge to. You will put the controller between that elbow and the wastegate control diaphram (the can with a rod on it connected to the rusty side of the turbo). With a manual boost controller you are restricting the flow of pressure to the diaphram. The less amount of air that gets to the diaphram the more it takes to open...which increases your boost pressure. That little can has a diaphram and spring in it. The spring is preloaded to 4.5PSIG. That preload allows the rod to be pulled on to keep the wastegate valve closed when there is no pressure applied so it doesn't flap open on you and NEVER produce boost.

 

So if you have 12 PSIG applied to the MBC but restrict the flow through the MBC to 4.5PSIG on the outlet of the MBC you will make 12PSIG boost with the turbo. Make sense?

[backyardpb]

I did some more research and learned more on the operation and installation of a MBC. Makes perfect sense. this thing will be running soon. Ill get you guys some pictures.

[Guest TurboSedan]

you can see how i did my BOV and MBC here:

 

http://www.turbosedan.com/cutlass/engine/DSC02354.JPG

 

i like the BOV on the lower pipe because i think it would be an eyesore on the upper pipe IMO. btw, i took the plug out of the rear of the TGP plenum and now have my brake booster vacuum line going there just like it used to be when the engine was NA.[br]Posted on: April 12, 2006, 12:11:00 PM_________________________________________________

I just need some spark plug wires and plugs. Any reccomendations?

 

AC Delco R42LTS plugs gapped at .040 and Magnecore KV-85 spark plug wires (pn#6540).

[TGPilot]

I did some more research and learned more on the operation and installation of a MBC. Makes perfect sense. this thing will be running soon. Ill get you guys some pictures.

 

If you have questions do not hesitate to ask them. You may think it is a stupid question...but there are many things a couple of the 5-speed swap guys have come across that was not so obvious to us to start with till we asked and the light bulb lit over our heads!

[backyardpb]

Awsome, magnecor is actually not to far from my home, I read about there product on there site and im impressed. defnietely going to get a set.

 

Sometimes I wish there wasnt such a huge aftermarket on turbo products.....too many decsions!

boost controllers

BOV's

Gauges!

 

ahhhhhhh too many to pick from.

 

I think Im going to go with a Turbosmart dual stage boost controller. I like that fact that you can switch between two boost settings.

Im not sure about the blow off valves or gauges.