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to be or not to be


GrandPrix34

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i have a bit of a dilema facing me right now...I am in the process of purchasing a 90 GTP, but a big question is starting to loom over my head...take the 90 GTP or stay wit my 93 SE 3.4 DOHC...At first glance it seems though everyone would take the GTP but my 3.4 only has 74,351 on the odo., so its still relatively new...so my question was, wat do you guys think is better, buy the GTP or just keep building up the 3.4. Its fast too, i already got 2 v6 mustangs, camaro RS and a z28 (guy fishtailed too much, but hey it dont matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winnings winning!!) and the next mod was a "fastchip" and underdrive pullies...

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If you've had the 93 for a while, then you know a lot of it's history and IMO the first 100k is critical, engines can reach 100k like new or like crap depending on care and maintenance. Am I wrong?

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You've got a Cutty Convertible shawn? I didn't know that, lol

 

There's a nice one here that's been tempting me for a while now. I'm surprised it's been sitting on the lot for 3 months.

http://www.forthaysautosales.com/supreme.html

White interior, white top, red exterior, 39,000 miles, lots of options.. damn gorgeous car.

Like I said, if they drop the price, the temptation to trade may just get to me :D

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Man would I love to put a 3.1 Turbo manual in the Cutty that LukeZ34 has a link to. That is a real good looking car! What do those Convertables go for $$ anyway? What years did they make the convertable? 8)

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91-95. The 95 has a rounded dash, only 4000 were made and primarily with the 3.4 The 95's for $5000-$8000. depending on condition. If you want a convt, I would look on ebay and keep an eye out. A 94 black with red leather just went for $3000. I bought my 95 off there a few weeks ago, buy callin the dealer and makin and offer. I won't tell the price, but it was under $4000. Mine is the Triple Black too with all the options except HUD. I am currently deciding between modifications....3.8 non sc, 3.8 sc, or go all out spend $10,000, back half the car and install a LS1. WooHoo.

 

I am sellin my 93 coupe by the way, if anyone is instrested. :-)

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91-95. The 95 has a rounded dash, only 4000 were made and primarily with the 3.4 The 95's for $5000-$8000. depending on condition. If you want a convt, I would look on ebay and keep an eye out. A 94 black with red leather just went for $3000. I bought my 95 off there a few weeks ago, buy callin the dealer and makin and offer. I won't tell the price, but it was under $4000. Mine is the Triple Black too with all the options except HUD. I am currently deciding between modifications....3.8 non sc, 3.8 sc, or go all out spend $10,000, back half the car and install a LS1. WooHoo.

 

I am sellin my 93 coupe by the way, if anyone is instrested. :-)

 

Hell, get an ASG 5.0 V8...may not be the best engine, but dammit, it's still a V8!

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Yeah they stuck an LS1 in a new Impala, but think back, the original Lumina concept car had a v8 as well. Why not have ASG put a 400 sbc in instead of the wheezy 305? There's no reason it wouldn't fit.

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You missed one important part, I said I may back half the car. Thus making it a RWD. After talking to Art Morison and some others, a V8 will not fit. So I am thinking about a 3.8 Turbo from a grand nasty. It is all in the planning a stages. I think I can do the whole frame and suspension for $6000. There is just something about being able to dop rear wheel burn outs in a a w-body drop top cutty. It will take me several years to do this in stages. But again, I am only in the planing stages.

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Yeah they stuck an LS1 in a new Impala, but think back, the original Lumina concept car had a v8 as well. Why not have ASG put a 400 sbc in instead of the wheezy 305? There's no reason it wouldn't fit.

 

Actually, there's every reason why it wouldn't fit.

1. Tranny bolt pattern is 100% different.

2. The engine is too long to fit sideways. Not because it's a V8, but because on an RWD engine, the accessories are all placed in FRONT of the engine. Look at an FWD engine (even the V6's) and you'll see the accessories are placed BESIDE the engine to give more room in front. Even the water pumps are beside the engine.

 

A V8 has to be designed from the ground-up to fit an FWD. The timing cover needs to be designed to place the accessories beside the engine. The pulleys need to be designed so that they're flatter. The tranny bolt pattern needs to be FWD. The LS1 (and LT1-derived) engines that GM put in their FWD cars were actually custom prototypes.

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Then how do they put the 305s in there? I've seen it done, they do fit. And the original Lumina concept car was a V8, sbc. On a V8, every one that I've ever seen, the alt, psp, and acc are all along side the engine. A sbc short water pump really doesn't intrude much without a spacer and fan attached to it. If worse came to worse, a guy could use an electric water pump I guess, but that's race only. The problem with putting a V8 in a W isn't length, it's width on cyl's 1 and 2. These cars came with inline 4s, so length can't be an issue. The fact that they're as wide as a 3.8 and long as a 2.5 is the issue. And along the bellhousing lines, adapter plates are used, you can get an adapter plate for damn near anything now. I saw on a car show on ESPN once, a 6000STE AWD, with a sbc. Everything looked stock, no bigass rims, no bigass tips, just like Pontiac would have made it. It was trick, and it showed that pretty much any intermediate has room for a V8.

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Who is "they"? I've never seen a 305 in a W-body unless it was an RWD conversion on a tube or boxed frame chassis.

The Lumina concept was built by GM. If you've ever seen pics of the LS1 Impala and Grand Prix G8 engines, you will see it's NOT the same timing cover and accessories.

Length IS the issue. Ever see where the accessories are mounted on an inline 4? Right beside the engine. The pulleys do not extend more than a couple inches past the front of the timing cover. All RWD V8 engines I've ever seen (LS1 variants included) have accessories mounted more forward of the timing cover. Take a look at the front of a 4.9L Caddy pushrod V8. It's front timing cover is as flat as can be.

Also take a look at power steering pump placement on an FWD prototype version of the Gen III LS1 V8's. It's neatly tucked between the heads, overlapping the lower intake manifold. On an RWD, the entire assembly and pulley are mounted more forward.

An SBC simply will not fit without a custom cast timing cover and accessory mounts. I can take measurements if you don't believe, my truck has a Gen III SBC.

 

Also, adapter plates (as used in Fieros) adds 1" to the length, making it even more impossible to mount that beast sideways.

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