1990lumina Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 I don't know if E85 and what I am talking about is the same thing...but anyway...(I searched "ethanol gasoline" and got a few "E85" results...) Anyway, couple months ago a few of the gas stations started posting "Regular may contain 10% ethanol, mid grade may contain 5% ethanol, and premium contains 0 ethanol" So, I want to know how this stuff affects older fuel systems such as the one on my 1990 3.1MPFI engine. Almost all, if not all the gas stations have this sticker on the pumps now, and I've been burning regular like usual......this past fill up I must have got the full 10% ethanol, because the car lacked power, and it got HORRIBLE mileage. So, other then driveability and mileage, how does this crap affect my fuel system? I may start running premium (I know I won't gain anything from it, however I'm getting horrible mileage, and a noticeable loss in power...so I'm pay the extra 3 dollars in the end for something that won't harm my fuel system Anyone have any opinions, or anything??? Will some type of fuel additive make this ethanol blended stuff more efficently burned?? Thanks for any help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 3, 2006 Report Share Posted March 3, 2006 I've been running 10% Ethanol in my '89 Cutlass for well over a year now and I can still crack off 30mpg with it, little to no change here in mileage. Here our 87 and 89 octane are both 10% ethanol and are the exact same price, I run it in everything I own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted March 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I've been running 10% Ethanol in my '89 Cutlass for well over a year now and I can still crack off 30mpg with it, little to no change here in mileage. Here our 87 and 89 octane are both 10% ethanol and are the exact same price, I run it in everything I own. Maybe I just got some bad gas then?? I dunno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I don't think you're really supposed to run E85 unless you have a Flex Fuel car.. and Flex Fuel 3.1s are pretty damn rare. I don't think it's supposed to be good for the regular injectors/various o-rings/something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlsp Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 well flex fuel hasn;t had any affect on my old carbed cars yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 NY has a required 10% ethanol in all ratings of gasoline (it may be lifted soon though) I do see a decrease in mileage, usually just like 2mpg difference. No noticeable change in power though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z284pwr Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 well flex fuel hasn;t had any affect on my old carbed cars yet It will make them run lean, but thats about it, oh, it will run cooler to help prevent detonation too I'm guessing some don't know how ethanol works.... It burns CLEANER, cooler, but, also faster. Bad gas mileage because it burns faster, but better emissions, however, I would strongly recommend NOT using E85. Why, because your rubber fuel lines aren't ethanol capable, SO, it will deteriorate the lines and eat them, 10% should be diluted enough to not though. Oh, it will also eat o-rings, and I'm not sure about O2 sensors? This is all assuming Ethanol and Alcohol/Methanol have the same characteristcs, so it may not be the same, not sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyomingste Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I'm not sure if i'm correct or confusing this with something else but E-85 (85% Ethanol 15% Gasoline) is a ''flex fuel only''. We just had a pump installed in town, I know how this stuff works; if you want to run it you have to have stainless lines, special fuel injectors, and some othere type of o-ring (not made of rubber), and you must make your motor run richer by some sort. The newer flex fuel veihicles have sensors to detect the amount of ethonal in the fuel, thus resulting in how rich the motor will run. Would it be worth the conversion? Ummmm............ (here is an example) 1.74 a gallon for E-85 and 2.08 for regular gasoline, 2.18 for mid grade gasoline, and 2.28 for premium gasoline. so figure at this, if you regularly fill with regular gas you save .34 a gallon. if you regulary filled with mid grade you save .44 a gallon. If you filled up with premium everytime you will save .54 a gallon. Figure how much the new parts are going to cost to put them in and then look at mileage and the lifetime of your car, it will mean you will have to buy approximately 3529.41 gallons (if you reguraly ran basic gasoline) of e-85 before you see any money back by converting to the fuel (6141.17 USD worth of e-85, or if your car gets 25mpg 88,235.25 miles worth of driving to see any money back that you just put into the change of fuels. it will mean you will have to buy approximately 2727.27 gallons (if you reguraly ran mid gasoline) of e-85 before you see any money back by converting to the fuel (4745.45 USD worth of e-85, or if your car gets 25mpg 68181.75miles worth of driving to see any money back that you just put into the change of fuels. it will mean you will have to buy approximately 2222.22 gallons (if you reguraly ran mid gasoline) of e-85 before you see any money back by converting to the fuel (3866.66 USD worth of e-85, or if your car gets 25mpg 55555.50 miles worth of driving to see any money back that you just put into the change of fuels. Just think this is just figuring the parts for conversion are ''only'' going to cost 1200.00 USD. Goodluck, Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I'm pretty sure that flex-fuel/E85 and the small amount of ethanol in regular gas are completley different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted March 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 Well I filled up with premium last night....we'll see what happens....I know premium will not do a damn thing for me, but at least it doesn't contain ethanol blend....I don't feel like replacing parts of the fuel system when I can prevent it. And if E85 and what I'm talking about is different....then I may go back to the blend, but if they are gonna make me run that, they should lower the price.....I've been paying 90.9 cents/liter for what seems like forever now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 I doubt premium will do a damn thing, including saving parts of your fuel system. I've never had any kinds of issues just from gas... aside from carbon buildup and shit, which is normal maintanace stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted March 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 It's more the lose in power.....of course I'm worryied about the hoses and such, but the 3.1 has no power to begin with, so a lose in power is quite noticeable.....believe me, in Saskatoon, you need all ou have to keep up with the pack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92LuminaRS Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 .....believe me, in Saskatoon, you need all ou have to keep up with the pack I went to canada a few years back, I had the speedo bueried at 85 and this guy in a euro passed me like I was standing still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 your speedo only goes to 85??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoStudd Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 The Twin Cities area has had the 10% Ethanol "mandate" in place for close to 15 years now (in the beginning, the mandate was in place during the winter months only.) The whole state has been required to sell it for 7 or 8 years now, so you can't even buy "pure" petrol here anymore. I can't think of anybody having had any problems with this type of fuel in the time since it's been mandated... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92LuminaRS Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 your speedo only goes to 85??? it use to in my old car before the swap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyomingste Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 E-85 and E-10 (10% ethonal alcohol) are totally different. Sure alcohol does dry out rubber rings and stuff in the lines and all that but figure 10% ethonal isn't going to do this nearly as bad or as fast as E-85 will. If you search there was actually reasearch done with a 199X Grand Prix (college paper for final, its on the internet somewhere i'll try to find it again) discussing the use of E-85 in the 60*, supprisingly there was a dyno done on the motor (between regular gasoline and E-85) but don't quote me on this part but I believe that there was actually a 30+horse power gain running the E-85. There was one downfall though, the motor suffered premature failure (only 30000 miles on motor but again don't quote me on the specifics) the motor locked up (they didn't do alot of research but it damaged the fuel injectors, pump, lines, and rails. The cause of the motor failure was running to lean (died only 150 miles into the tests I believe :shock: ). The E-10 or 10% ethonal gasoline is totally differnt on our engines its not enough alcohol to cause the motor to run lean enough to cause the failure (I know on my old carbureted dodge I had to richen the motor when I ran this gas because I was pushing 11.5:1 compression ratio and didn't want to risk it.) It is actually good if you think about it... oil is expensive, corn is not so if you run 90% gas and 10% ethonal alcohol( you would be able to theretically save money by filling you car up with this instead of regualar 100% gasoline you'll never see this though everyone is so gready in todays society). Hope that this helps, WyomingSTE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92LuminaRS Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I could see the engine comitting suicide, the computer is not set up to burn a different type of fuel. the O2 sensor would give out flase readings and mess up the air/fuel mixture definately. Like stated, you would definately have to upgrade the crap in your car and the cost is totally not worth it. I'll just get a propane conversion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z284pwr Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I could see the engine comitting suicide, the computer is not set up to burn a different type of fuel. the O2 sensor would give out flase readings and mess up the air/fuel mixture definately. Like stated, you would definately have to upgrade the crap in your car and the cost is totally not worth it. I'll just get a propane conversion Well, if the O2 sensor doesn't go bad, it will compensate by dumping in MORE fuel since it is running leaner. If you push it too hard, it will lean out and have NO power.....run under boost and detonation perhaps if it runs TOO lean.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schurkey Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 I've run alcohol-enhanced gasoline since about '80 or '81. In the very early years, the mix was 5-10% METHANOL. Lots of people had problems with that, although looking back, half the trouble was TOO MUCH methanol (as determined by sampling the fuel on cars that weren't running correctly. The station would blend it improperly, and so you were getting cheated on the gasoline content. The other part of the problem was that it acted as a solvent, and moved all the crap in your fuel tank into your fuel filter. For that matter, it moved all the crap in the GAS STATION'S tanks into your fuel filter. This back in the days of single-wall underground tanks that leaked like a sieve. All the water in the underground tank mixed with the alcohol, and was pumped up into your car, whereas it used to settle in the bottom of the underground tanks. Nevertheless, methanol-blend gasoline has disappeared, and I've been using ethanol-fortified gasoline ever since. It will positively prevent water condensation build-up in the gas tank, you have no worries with gas line freezing. There is no issue with corrosion or deterioration of rubber with ethanol at a 10% mix. At one time, the GM Owner's manuals stated that their cars would have no problems with either a 10% ethanol blend, or a 5% methanol blend, if the methanol had "cosolvents". To this day, I don't know what they meant by "cosolvents". E85 is a whole 'nother matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
92LuminaRS Posted March 5, 2006 Report Share Posted March 5, 2006 cosolvents = solvents that conspire ways to destroy your car form the inside out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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