Power window HELL

[LukeZ34]

Ok, just got done with 3 hours of screwing with our drivers side window motor.

Ever since we bought the car it's had an occasional problem where the window motor will come unbolted from it's mounts inside the door. This obviously results in the window not working.

So, I finally decided to tear in to it tonight to find out what the real problem was... Long story short, I have NEVER seen such a pathetic rigging job in my entire life!

 

One of the 2 bolts had come completely off of the motor, which is why it kept falling off after the remaining one worked itself loose. After an hour of trying to locate the second bolt location with a mirror I gave up and got the dremel and tin snips out. I cut holes where I needed them in the door so I could access the bolts directly (see pics).

After doing this, I was able to get the bolts where they needed to be and get them tightened up. It works great now, but it's obviously been worked with in the past. The whole bracket that holds all the window mechanics inside the door moves around when the window is in motion. This is because of the welded nuts on the door frame. Whoever welded them, melted through the bolts, and over time the weld has worked loose.

 

I thought that by purchasing a low mileage car from it's original owner that we would get something that hadn't been molested like this.. Guess I was wrong. This isn't the first rigging surprise I've found on this car, and I'm sure it's not going to be the last.

 

 

 

The 4 nuts holding the window mechanics in place. Obviously doesn't look like a factory job (black spray paint, poor welds, etc.).

 

 

Holes I cut inorder to get to the motor mounts. Makes the job MUCH easier.

 

 

One of the welded bolts that holds all the window mechanics on. Make note that this was once one of those nuts with the white nylon in it. It was obviously melted when the nut was tack welded on to the door.

[cutlsp]

that royally sucks luke oh well at least its fixed for now :?

[White93z34]

woulden't it have made alot more sense to use rivits like the factory did??

or lock washers

or just leaveing the nylock nuts alone

people....

 

what else has been rigged on this car?

[LukeZ34]

what else has been rigged on this car?

 

The guy (or his mechanic) LOVED black RTV. That shit was on everything under the hood. TB vacuum block, vacuum hoses are just a few places I found it...

I found the fuel pump "harness" wrapped in a ziplock bag. When I took the bag off, there was a huge glob of white silicone with little grey wire nuts sticking out of it.. That one pissed me off...

He used Dex-cool in the car (which got flushed out as soon as we bought it.)

 

I could list more, but there's no reason for it. It's to the point that when something goes wrong, I just prepare myself for a surprise.

[GnatGoSplat]

Wow, bolts and lockwashers work fine, I don't know why he bothered to weld the nuts?!?! Do bolts even come out of the nuts? I'm guessing not since you went to the trouble to Dremel some holes in the door.

 

I probably would have tried to cut/grind the nuts off. Then get some new locknuts and bolts and some of those big disc type lock washers that have pointy sharp edges (similar to the ones used to keep the trunk lid aligned).

 

I run Dex in the '88 and '89, both have over 200,000 miles and no problems.

[NeonKnight]

thats because they are iron head probably.

 

the aluminum headed 3.1, 3.4 and 2.8 are the ones that dex cool kills. it eats the heads

[GP1138]

thats because they are iron head probably.

 

the aluminum headed 3.1, 3.4 and 2.8 are the ones that dex cool kills. it eats the heads

 

These are aluminum headed engines. The older 2.8's in F-bodies and I think the van engines got iron heads, but don't quote me.

 

I don't think any W-body got iron heads, ever.

[ShockTherapy]

thats because they are iron head probably.

 

the aluminum headed 3.1, 3.4 and 2.8 are the ones that dex cool kills. it eats the heads

 

These are aluminum headed engines. The older 2.8's in F-bodies and I think the van engines got iron heads, but don't quote me.

 

I don't think any W-body got iron heads, ever.

 

...t3h duke ?

[92LuminaRS]

That sucks about that hack job, that would royally piss me off also. In my car with electric windows the motors are rivited in, not bolted. I don't understand why they didn't do that instead of bolting them in. Much more reliable and simpler...

 

 

As for this dex-cool issue.... I've always been told dex-cool is the way to go. Apparently not? I wish I would have known this before I shelled out $30 aon antifreeze that I figured that I would never have to change again. What kind of damage does it do to the 3.1L's? I've had it in for about 6 months now, should I make it go away?

[GnatGoSplat]

They are riveted in from the factory, but it's difficult to rivet them in when replacing them. For one thing, they use HUGE rivets that you can't just buy anywhere (in fact, I found them nowhere). It's also not easy to find a rivet gun that handles such huge rivets (again, I couldn't find any). So for a DIY repair, riveting is just not practical.

 

6-months? I've had Dex-cool in both cars for 7yrs AND I have neglected to flush/change it during that whole time. :oops: Like I said, 200k on both cars and zero problems.

[92LuminaRS]

^^ I'll keep my dex-cool in than. Ffor $30 I really don't feel like replacing it

 

[/hijack]

[LukeZ34]

I figured they were held in with rivits from the factory. I may replace all the bolts eventually, but I didn't feel like messing with all of that last night.

 

As far as the dex-cool issue goes.. I just didn't trust it in a TGP. Especially since the radiators are 3 core and are prone to failure anyway. I didn't want to chance sludging up the radiator and sinking even more money into the car for a replacement.

It's all about personal preference, and I simply just don't care for Dex-cool.

[1990lumina]

It's all about personal preference, and I simply just don't care for Dex-cool.

 

Me neither

[digitaloutsider]

It's all about personal preference, and I simply just don't care for Dex-cool.

And after the Montana's incident, I'd say I'm inclined to agree with you.

[5speedz34]

The problem with Dex-cool is people think that they can go forever with it, and that is when it screws things up.

[White93z34]

what kills me about dex-cool is it claims 100k change intervals. i have yet to see this in ANY car, something generally fails causeing drainage of the coolant.

 

as for dex-cool itself i have no problems with it, i just use what my car s came with.

[95oldsVan]

Man what a Hack job! I cant believe someone did that.Usually when you get a new window motor,it comes with new bolts to replace the rivets.Someone did not know wtf they were doing and had no business trying to fix that problem themselves.

 

Btw,I bought a fantastic rivet hand tool from sears a few years back.It has a swivel head as well to get into tight angles if needed.It also has 3 tip adaptors to use either small medium or large rivet sizes.If you need the bigger rivets,most body shop supply stores have them.Dont bother with parts stores or Home Depots and the likes,they usually dont have the ones ya need.

 

I was able to find the right sizes at my local body shop supply store

and put everything back on with the rivet tool I bought.

 

Just thought Id share that.

 

[GnatGoSplat]

How much did that rivet tool set ya back?

 

Talking about Dex-cool... I bet my truck DOES have over 100k on its Dex-cool. I've never drained it myself, and I doubt the previous owner does. It's still as clear as new. I should probably change it, but I'm always real leery thinking someone will notice the orange (or green) river that goes flowing down the street next to the curb!

[95oldsVan]

I forget how much this tool cost me...man its been about 9 years or so since I purchased it.Im betting around 20 bucks or so.Its a heavy duty unit with swivel top which is why its a bit more than the cheaper ones.I worked at a dealership that time and used it alot there for work,so it was justified to have in the tool box as well.

 

[White93z34]

i know at the shop we had this huge rivit gun, and the large rivits for that application, worked great.

 

gnat, i'd imagine your in the minority of owners that have not had one single coolant problem in 100k, then again you don't live in the rust belt...

[GnatGoSplat]

Well, I did have problems with green coolant eating right through the head gaskets, despite at that time I did flush the cooling system out every couple of years. Nastiest stuff I ever saw. That's why I switched to Dex, it's supposed to be better on soft aluminum parts like head gaskets. Who knows, it might have been due to me using Prestone brand at the time. I never had problems with cheap Wal-mart SuperTech green coolant.

[mfewtrail]

Well, I did have problems with green coolant eating right through the head gaskets, despite at that time I did flush the cooling system out every couple of years. Nastiest stuff I ever saw. That's why I switched to Dex, it's supposed to be better on soft aluminum parts like head gaskets. Who knows, it might have been due to me using Prestone brand at the time. I never had problems with cheap Wal-mart SuperTech green coolant.

 

Just FWIW, my '93 has used Prestone since the first time the coolant was flushed around 50,000 miles(sometime in 1995..it's been changed out regularly since then as well)...never had any headgasket issues. My intake gaskets failed just shy of 230,000 miles(leaked coolant externally on the driver's side) and the areas of the gasket around the coolant passages looked pretty ratty. I pulled the heads off the motor not long after that and the headgaskets didn't look anywhere near as bad as the intake gaskets were.

[92LuminaRS]

And after the Montana's incident, I'd say I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

Care to inform me?

[cutlsp]

How much did that rivet tool set ya back?

 

Talking about Dex-cool... I bet my truck DOES have over 100k on its Dex-cool. I've never drained it myself, and I doubt the previous owner does. It's still as clear as new. I should probably change it, but I'm always real leery thinking someone will notice the orange (or green) river that goes flowing down the street next to the curb!

there is a way around that wash the car while the raidiator is draining

[GnatGoSplat]

Just FWIW, my '93 has used Prestone since the first time the coolant was flushed around 50,000 miles(sometime in 1995..it's been changed out regularly since then as well)...never had any headgasket issues. My intake gaskets failed just shy of 230,000 miles(leaked coolant externally on the driver's side) and the areas of the gasket around the coolant passages looked pretty ratty. I pulled the heads off the motor not long after that and the headgaskets didn't look anywhere near as bad as the intake gaskets were.

 

Maybe it was just coincidence, who knows, but even then, I won't put any Prestone product in any of my cars and have never had any kind of cooling problem since. It's similar to how people think Dex-cool causes problems which has scared them into switching. I'm the same way, just with Prestone instead. I've read in a radiator rebuilder's trade publication that all the Dex-cool problems are most likely coincidental as well.

 

there is a way around that wash the car while the raidiator is draining

 

I don't know if that'd dilute it enough for no one to notice. There are a lot of kids & pets in my neighborhood too... I don't have any clue how you're supposed to legitimately get rid of 6-gallons of coolant though.