ToroToro Posted February 20, 2006 Report Posted February 20, 2006 Someone with a 93 should do that test too. I'm not too sure I'm buying that they got the fake gauge yet, since I haven't heard anything either way. It would almost make sense that they changed over to the fake gauge when they changed over to the 3100... Also would be interesting to see if the 93 3.1 and the 93 3100 got different sensors (IE: one getting a switch and the other getting a sender) So much more to learn... Quote
Turbo231 Posted February 20, 2006 Report Posted February 20, 2006 btw, anyone know of a how-to tech info to convert the caprice gauge????? This is a very easy mod for any Caprice of at least the 94-96 vintage with the L99 or LT1 engine. I'm sure it works on other year Caprices. As previously stated, the switch is replaced with a sender. This can be done 2 ways. Some 9C1 and Taxi Caprices came with an actual sender, and this can be used on a regular caprice. However, the readings will be off as it is a 0-80 psi sender (off meaning it will tend to be in the very low area during hot idle etc). The 68 ohm resistor must also be removed from the circuit and is easy as it is located in the wiring harness just after it enters the cabin from the engine compartment. There is a modification involving a 12v+ power supply and another resister to bias the readings so that the needle stays in a more usable area of the gauge. Blah to that. There is also another sender, from the full size truck line, that is a 0-60 sender, thus doesn't need the bias resistor circuit to read well on the gauge. The 68 ohm resister must still be removed. The catch is a pipe adapter must be used because the truck sender connection is slightly smaller then the Caprice Sender. I will be doing this mod on my Caprice shortly with pictures and a full write up. If you would like technical articles, they are: Main Tech Writeup: http://impala.homeip.net/impala/technical/tech.cgi?interior%2Foil%5Fpressure%2Ehtml Truck Mod: http://www.impalassforum.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=9&t=000132 Hope that helps. Quote
Crazy K Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Posted February 21, 2006 so... based on what the linked caprice info says, although my schematic has no depiction of a resistor in the oil gauge circuit, I will be checking the feed wire from the guage to determine if there is a resistor in it. ohmeter the MFer. meanwhile i hope to grab a sender soon. Quote
ToroToro Posted February 21, 2006 Report Posted February 21, 2006 I'm still on for getting one tomarrow, and popping it in. You'll find out then if there is another resistor in the circuit. Damn I hope not. I'm going to stake my claim at being the first '94 with a working oil pressure gauge. :read: Last chance...I'll grab you one too. Just pay the shipping on it.. Quote
Crazy K Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Posted February 21, 2006 I'm cool. As posted in whatever, I lost my job. If it ain't free, i don't want it. I may spend alot of time submitting resumes, and take a trip to indy so i can rebuild my convertables transmission while I'm stuck.... and submit more from friend's computers. so if i spend a week there, I will be hooping for parts. give us the details.... need to know... does the sender interfere with the chack guages light? I would presume that the guage works normally, but in a "compressed" format. Quote
ToroToro Posted February 21, 2006 Report Posted February 21, 2006 I'm using the digital UB3, so I dont think it'll be in a compressed format. Should work just right. I dont know how I'd test the check gauges light though. That light is pretty stupid anyways. While you are out there hopping for parts...I series trunk lock ring. I'd be forever grateful to you. Quote
Crazy K Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Posted February 21, 2006 only if I pocket it. I know what youare are talking about, the ring around the key! Quote
stockgp Posted February 21, 2006 Report Posted February 21, 2006 i might be a litle behind on this, but why not just put a functioning oil gauge from another cluster into the cs cluster? then there's no mystery to making it work. just put in a sender and go. Quote
Crazy K Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Posted February 21, 2006 not a bad idea... But you would have to change the coil part I pictured, on the rear of the guage. That has proved to be impossible. I can;t get the needle to seperate from the coil. I've broken 3 off my spare cluster, and have only 1 left. any you need to remove 2 to swap out the guage. additionally a replacement coil would have to be the same electically, with the contacts in the same order, and the have proper mounting to mount. I think the simple thing may be to install a 60 psi guage sender instead of the 80, as the guage pegs at where the "50ish" mark would be. unless someone has a 50 psi sender? ToroToro, I fogot, but the ub3 didgital cluster won't tell us the check guage info anyhow. lets us know if it works normally however. if it doesn't reach the max when you run it, try popping the sender wire off of the ensor,m adn thet should peg the guage IF there is no 68 ohm resistor. Quote
stockgp Posted February 21, 2006 Report Posted February 21, 2006 i've taken apart several clusters and i've never broken a needle. of course, i don't know that otrher clusters will have the same gauge coil, but i would think it would be worth a shot. Quote
Crazy K Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Posted February 21, 2006 i've taken apart several clusters and i've never broken a needle. of course, i don't know that other clusters will have the same gauge coil, but i would think it would be worth a shot. As have I, but this is the only one I've ever had that breaks! But I do know that simply adjusting the needle to point higher will not work, as it will not read low enough then. either the extra resistor if removed will do it, or the coil windings are different. The way it works is when the sender is not grounded, power runs though both 'high' and 'low'coils, forcing the guage to compromise at 5/8 mark. when the sender is grounded, power takes the easiest route and diverts power to the 'low' coil, which makes the guage peg low by bypassing the 'high' coil I shorted out the questionable resistor (on the right)...and the guage works perfect but it starts overheating the larger 75 ohm resistor(right in pic). I now think a lower ohm resistor in place of the questionable resistor(left in pic) would be appropriate say 20 ohm or 10 ohm??? experimentation will be necesary. But I have to put the car back together and wait until a true test of a real sender shows us some results. plus I was hoping to have the car grounded for the rest of the week and I can't, now that I am not carpooling anymore. damn, jobs suck and not having one sucks more. Quote
ToroToro Posted February 21, 2006 Report Posted February 21, 2006 Wow, you are getting pretty deep into that shit. I was just thinking it was a matter of bypassing the resistor and you would be home free. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a sender today. I made it out to the junkyard, and there was literally three Ws out of the 20+ that didn't have base clusters. And the engine compartments were packed full of snow on all three. It was a bit too chilly to do it today anyways. I'm really sorry I couldn't get one though, because I dont like backing down on my word. I'll get one when it warms up, I PROMISE. Quote
Crazy K Posted February 21, 2006 Author Report Posted February 21, 2006 I've had to abort the project due to losing the ability to keep the car out of service since I was commuting with my brother until I had no job yesterday. Yeah.. I get pretty deep.... that why I'm called crazy K next week, I will be going through my collection or stored car parts including junk clusters, hunting for the right parts. But i might go to a yard that has been recommended to me in columbus, and snatch a sensor there. Quote
ns87 Posted February 28, 2006 Report Posted February 28, 2006 Ok Guys. Hear me out on this, its kinda long. There is a Cutlass Supreme in my junkyard. I'm almost positive it is a 93. I shall confirm tomrrow. Either way, it has the full rally gauges that I bought from torotoro, with the L-H Oil pressure gauge. It has my 3.1MPFI engine, not the 3100SFI. I took the oil pressure sensor out of that car. Will this make my oil gauge work with torotoro's old gauge? Is this the missing link or is the problem with the newer style gauge and not the sensor? I can take pictures of the sender if anyone wants to figure it out Quote
Crazy K Posted March 9, 2006 Author Report Posted March 9, 2006 UPDATE! I found a 92 3100 powered Cs at the j/y with a numbered oil guage. I busted open the cluter got the needles off successfully, and took the needles and the coils for the appropriate guages. As you may have noted my absence... I've been working a national travel job and lack mobile internet access... plus I got a cold..... so tomorrow i will test the coils i pickled up and report back... meanwhile... ToroToro.... did you sucessfully get a sensor? notsoslimshady76, the 93 is supposed to have a fake guage... to the best of our knowledge... The sensor for a real guage will be about twice as long as the sender for a fake guage. Quote
stockgp Posted March 9, 2006 Report Posted March 9, 2006 i might be a litle behind on this, but why not just put a functioning oil gauge from another cluster into the cs cluster? then there's no mystery to making it work. just put in a sender and go. what changed your mind? Quote
Crazy K Posted March 9, 2006 Author Report Posted March 9, 2006 no changed mind.... I found the 92 version of the same cluster(which was number and may be a real oil guage), so the coils will be easily swapable if they are actually wound different or something.... I can check and compare the resistance in the circuits between the two possible coil windings to see if there is really is a difference!!! Quote
stockgp Posted March 9, 2006 Report Posted March 9, 2006 oh i c. i thought you had decided you didn't want to try to put in a gauge form another cluster. well, keep us updated Quote
joey b Posted March 9, 2006 Report Posted March 9, 2006 my 92 LQ1 had a functional pressure guage, as it would move with engine speed. If unplugged it read full scale. I swapped in a digital UB3 and it reads accurately on that cluster. Quote
Crazy K Posted March 9, 2006 Author Report Posted March 9, 2006 joey b, thanks! that covers 92. Which confirms that it has a real guage! stockgp, sorry to confuse you.. at the time I wrote what I originaly said, I did not realize they had made real oil guages in any 92-94 CS, so.. I never thought I would find one for a direct swap... still waiting for TOROTORO Quote
ToroToro Posted March 9, 2006 Report Posted March 9, 2006 Yeah yeah...I'm here. I haven't picked up sender yet...I've been waiting on the weather. Hopefully I'll grab one sometime very soon here. Quote
Crazy K Posted March 9, 2006 Author Report Posted March 9, 2006 UPDATE! I found a 92 3100 powered Cs at the j/y with a numbered oil guage. I busted open the cluter got the needles off successfully, and took the needles and the coils for the appropriate guages. 92 3100 CS Ken? :oops: I made a NOOB mistake! yeah I meant a 3.1 sorry... I was stoned on cough syrup... Quote
99vetteman Posted March 9, 2006 Report Posted March 9, 2006 After adding the UB3 into my 94' of course my oil pressure is also pegged at full. I bought a oil pressure sender from a 91 3.4 DOHC cutlass (GM part) and will install it tomorrow. We shall see the outcome! Jason Quote
cutlsp Posted March 9, 2006 Report Posted March 9, 2006 i've had about enough of this..... what you all need to do rather then destroying a good cluster is just go buy the SENDER for the cars 88-93 the oil pressure gauge works in my 88 and i have a 94 cluster in the car Quote
99vetteman Posted March 9, 2006 Report Posted March 9, 2006 i've had about enough of this..... what you all need to do rather then destroying a good cluster is just go buy the SENDER for the cars 88-93 the oil pressure gauge works in my 88 and i have a 94 cluster in the car Thats all I did, will install it tomorrow as I am at the mechanics all day getting alot of other maintenance done. Maybe it is a cost issue for everyone? I dont know. But 40 bucks canadian for an oil pressure sender is certainly small fry for me if it means getting the guage working. Jason Quote
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