AGRESIVE Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 Wow, first post! I've been a long time member of vwvortex.com but just stumbled on this site. I have a '92 Lumina with a 3.1 auto that I bought last November to drive while I rebuild the VR6 in my '98 V-dub. It has 272,000 km's on it and yesterday started giving me a serious problem. I was just driving home casually when the idle got extremely rough and started sounding like a diesel. It also has no power up top when revved up and barely pulls. Can anyone tell me what the problem most likely is or what I should look at? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted March 26, 2003 Report Share Posted March 26, 2003 have you replace your catalytic converter? When those get clogged, you lose serious power. Bang it with your hand or something and if you hear it rattling inside, its time for a new one. Check your O2 sensor, those go bad with age, and will cause a rough idle. Does the car ever die? The reason I ask is the crank positon sensor could be going out, it will cause a very rough idle if it does go bad. Welcome to the board and hope this helps Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGRESIVE Posted March 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hey Robby, thanks for the reply. No, I haven't changed out the cat and the car never completely dies out. If I had to guess, I would say that it's the timing since both the low and high rpm's are affected. My VR uses double timing chains with plastic guides and a hydraulic tensioner, and if one of the guides breaks off or the the tensioner doesn't receive sufficient oil pressure the chain goes slack and throws the timing of the cams off. It's a huge job to replace anything to do with the chains on it, as I have to drop the tranny just to get at it, so I hope it's not as hard on this V-6 if that's what it turns out to be. Possibly a vacuum leak somewhere? I wish I knew this engine better. Anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS91Z34 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 When the last time plugs were changed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGRESIVE Posted March 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Not sure when, not since I've had it. That rear bank of plugs don't look to easy to get at either. :| Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS91Z34 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 I could be wrong but check those plugs. My 3.4 did that to me for no reason. My car ran like @#$%. Turns out the plugs were junk. The easiest way to do the plugs on the 3.1L is to take the dogbones off the front and rock or pull the top of the motor towards the front of the car. The other way I found easier to do is to take the alternator off and reach through the big hole uncovered by the alternator. I found the second way easier to do because that way your not bending in odd directions over the top of the motor. Plus your not running the risk of your arm getting crushed by the motor if it were to suddenly relax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Plus your not running the risk of your arm getting crushed by the motor if it were to suddenly relax. Been there, had my arm crushed, not fun. Didnt want to take the alternator off, I did rotate the motor forward, but I couldnt get it far enough to put the bolt pack through. Make sure you dont break the vacuum line on your MAP sensor, been there done that, its a B&%$# to fix. Good luck Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS91Z34 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 That is why I take the alternator off instead. Robby knows what i'm talking about! No offense robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 yeah I know what you talkin bout!! Unfortunately Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGRESIVE Posted March 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 Thanks, I'll take a look at them in the morning. How involved is it to do the timing chain on this engine? I just want to be prepared to do it this weekend if I have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted March 27, 2003 Report Share Posted March 27, 2003 timing chain? very intensive. All the accesories on the belt end of the motor would have to come off and like every pulley except the crank pulley. However, I dont think that is your problem, I havent heard of the timing chains going out on these often Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGRESIVE Posted March 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Okay, so it wasn't the plugs. :? The wires checked out alright as well, but I didn't test the coil pack. I still feel it has something to do with the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS91Z34 Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 I'm assuming this car has a load of miles on it. If plugs and wires checked out fine than it probably wouldn't be bad to check compression on each of the cylinders. I have seen head gaskets blow in between two cylinders on these motors and still run. Ran like s___, but it still ran. Timing could be the problem, but unlikely. These motors ran off of a crank sensor. To basically tell the ECM where each cylinder was and when to fire that cylinder in relation to crankshaft position. I had experience with coils going out before, but usually they just go. They dont die slowly. Timing is all done by the computer. If you think the timing chain could be at fault remove the intakes so you can look at the camshaft. Get a socket for the center bolt on the crank pulley and turn the crank back and forth. Remember the position of your ratchet when the cam starts to turn in both ways in accordance to the crank. That will tell you how worn(stretched) the chain is. If that doesn't help any, start checking sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robby1870 Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 yeah compression in the cylinders is good place to check. Yeah the head gasket will do just that. And you will get a significant loss of power from loss of compression in a cylinder. Robby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted March 29, 2003 Report Share Posted March 29, 2003 Just don't blow a ton of money and labor without knowing what it is. I've seen guys here (a guy) spend a fortune on parts and none were the problem. Me, if it ain't obvious I take it down to the local mech who knows these engines inside out. Town of 1400 with a real mech! He did my o'ring and a heat stressed cracked nipple coming out of the thermostat housing, crankshaft sensor. Cleaned my IAC, didn't even know what an IAC was then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGRESIVE Posted April 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2003 Just an update.... I'm almost certain that the problem is causing the knock sensor to pull the timing all the way back to the point where the more the engine is revved, the less power it has, to the point where the car doesn't move. The plugs were all brown when I changed them out, a good sign there. I pulled the crank position sensor thinking maybe it was getting hit or may have been damaged, but it was fine. It's not the tranny either. There is a mechanical noise, almost like the lifters aren't getting enough oil pressure, but it is louder under the engine as we noticed when we put it up on the hoist. This is bugging me that we can't figure out the problem. On a high note, my VR6 is less than a month from being finished. edit: Oh yeah, and it's not throwing any codes either, which makes me even more convinced it has to be mechanical and not electrical, but then again, what do I know?? :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostnawd Posted April 23, 2003 Report Share Posted April 23, 2003 Have you checked compression yet? To me. it really sounds like you dropped a cylinder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted April 24, 2003 Report Share Posted April 24, 2003 More likely you have a plugged/poisoned catalytic converter as other had suggested. Try to remove the Oxygen Sensor and let the car run at idle and see if the idle becomes better, then exhaust gases are barely coming out and causing a back pressure. Your car might still be running with rough idle and no power but sooner or later it might not start at all and just dies when started (completely blocked catalytic converter). However, it is possible to start the car with removed Oxygen Sensor and drive it to a safe area (it will be noisy/fumes and exhaust will be coming off the from where the Oxygen Sensor was removed). Checking for compression does not hurt either as previously stated here by other members. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGRESIVE Posted June 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Well, give the man a cigar!!! Turns out the cat was plugged after all. Although at this point it doesn't matter since my Dub is back on the road again and tearing up the city of Vaughn. Just in time too as the high pressure power steering hose on the Lumina developed a pin hole in it 4 days before the VW was finished. It's funny, looks like a windshield washer jet shooting whenever I turn the wheel with the hood open. As such, if anyone in the Southern Ontario area wants this thing, it has new brakes all around, a new alternator and new spark plugs, not to mention the bad cat and steering hose. Feel free to make offers before I have the wreckers pick it up. agresive@rogers.com Just thought you'd like to know what the problem turned out to be for future reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slade901 Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 Bad cat and leaking power steering hose is a very simple fix and cheap too. If you send it to a wrecking company, they would just give you $ per weight. I've even seen folks got $50 or $100 for their car. Hopefully one of your w-body members will take it. If I were close to you.. I'll make you an offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandprix104 Posted June 6, 2003 Report Share Posted June 6, 2003 wreckers NEVER pay very much. I remember my mom sold my old dead Merc. Topaz to the J/Y for $100. Told her not to but she's not to bright Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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