Guest TurboSedan Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 i cannot figure out how the front strut/knuckles go back together. how do i know how the spring is supposed to sit? i know how the strut bearing plate is supposed to be posistioned, but i have no idea how the spring sits on it. same goes for the upper spring isolator and spring seat (the part with the 3 studs seen from underhood). it looks like i need to have everything perfectly posistioned before i tighten up the big nut on the end of the strut shaft. i tried assembling them by what i thought looked to be the right way, but the upper part of the strut boot (the bumper part) does not want to sit in the strut mount perfectly straight which makes me think i must not have the spring in the right posistion. anyone have any pics or a writeup? if anyone here has installed Intrax springs i'd like to know where the end of the spring sits on the strut bearing plate (the lower spring seat). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabz Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 I was worried about the same thing. just put it back together the way you had it, should be ok. When you install it and put weight on it, should sit fine. Just line it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 I'll grab some pics, i was worried about the same thing. just put it back together the way you had it, should be ok. When you install it and put weight on it, should sit fine. i removed the original springs a long time ago, so i don't remember exactly how the spring was posistioned. although i think the Intrax springs are shorter than stock, so it makes sense that the spring ends might be in a different posistion than the stock spring was. anyway, this is how i have them put together right now: first i put the strut bearing plates on the strut/knuckle assembly exactly the same way as they are on my TSTE. then i pushed the KYB strut boots onto the strut shaft. then i put the lower spring isolator on and the spring itself. i noticed that if i rotated the spring (while keeping the strut bearing held in place), the strut shaft would 'center' in the middle of the upper most coil. after i posistioned the spring so that the strut shaft was poking up through the center of the upper most coil, i installed the upper spring isolator and strut mount. this puts the driver's side spring end pointing towards the rear of the car, while the passenger side spring end points towards the front of the car. does this sound right? however, the strut mount still needs to be installed so that the 3 studs will go into the body of the car. you could just rotate the whole assembly until they line up, but then the lower strut bearing plate would likely be in the wrong place. what a PITA. so basically....you need to have the strut bearing plate, spring & spring isolators, and the strut mount all indexed correctly to each other before it can be installed in the car. i'd like to see some pics of yours...that would help alot. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabz Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 This sounds right, I did the same thing. his puts the driver's side spring end pointing towards the rear of the car, while the passenger side spring end points towards the front of the car. Its too tight for some pics, I did actually try to take some. What i did for the top mount was eyeball it so the bolts are in place, put it on top, at most you'll be out an inch, You have about 2 inches so the lower bearing plate is in the right position with respence to the strut/knucle, so if the top plate is off a bit, should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 This sounds right, I did the same thing. his puts the driver's side spring end pointing towards the rear of the car, while the passenger side spring end points towards the front of the car. Its too tight for some pics, I did actually try to take some. What i did for the top mount was eyeball it so the bolts are in place, put it on top, at most you'll be out an inch, You have about 2 inches so the lower bearing plate is in the right position with respence to the strut/knucle, so if the top plate is off a bit, should be ok. cool, i should have them finished tomarrow then. as soon as my balljoints get here they are going in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 PLEASE post pics... I only have 1 of mine done so far, (because I am de-rusting & repainting them) , But I went to put everything back together , and had the same questions.... Pics would be GREAT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 PLEASE post pics... I only have 1 of mine done so far, (because I am de-rusting & repainting them) , But I went to put everything back together , and had the same questions.... Pics would be GREAT! OMG this was such a PITA!!! i was soooo close to giving up and bringing it to Midas becuase i simply couldn't figure out how to index everything. i finally got it figured out....i think. and yes i took quite a few pics. i will be posting it all in a little while.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 ok i'll do my best to expain how i did this. first off, here is the bare '96 strut/knuckle assembly: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02408.JPG old balljoint removed. i wouldn't recommend installing the new balljoints until just before installing the strut/knuckle assemblies in the car to avoid damaging the ball joints: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02409.JPG this is the new KYB strut boot and KYB heavy duty strut mount: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02411.JPG you'll have to place the strut bearing plate onto the strut before pushing the strut boot over the strut shaft. i had to have my brother hold the strut shaft up while i pushed down hard on the strut boot to get the strut boot to slide over the shaft. it's a very tight fit. you do NOT use the KYB supplied zip ties to secure the lower part of the strut boot to the strut assembly!: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02413.JPG this pic shows how the strut bearing plate is going to need to be posistioned in relationship to the strut/knuckle assembly. note that the part of the strut bearing plate with the 'L' (denoting it's for the left side of the car) points to the front of the car, and the two small holes near the center face outward and directly above the wheel bearing flange. http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02414.JPG this is the Intrax 1.8" drop spring sitting next to a 49,000 mile code 'FUX' spring from the '96 Cutlass that donated the strut/knuckle assemblies: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02410.JPG next step is putting the lower spring isolator onto the Intrax spring (make sure you have the end of the spring in the correct place on the isolator of course), and then placing it onto the strut bearing plate. keep the strut bearing plate in the correct posistion while you rotate the spring into the right place! i had my brother hold the strut bearing in place while i rotated the spring until the strut shaft protruded through the center of the upper most coil (make sure the lower spring end stays in the right place in the lower spring isolator). this will allow you to easily put the upper strut mount/plate/spring isolator into place so you can start threading the large 15/16" nut onto the shaft later on: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02416.JPG this pic just shows the posistion of the lower spring end. please note that it will likely not be in this posistion when you are finished: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02417.JPG next put the upper spring isolator onto the coil. make sure the end of the spring is in the correct place on the isolator (doh): http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02418.JPG now push the strut mount into the upper spring plate. there is a notch in both pieces (12 o'clock posistion in these pics) and it only goes in one way: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02427.JPG http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02419.JPG now place the upper strut plate/strut mount onto the upper spring isolator. you'll notice there is a 'notch' in the upper spring isolator and upper strut plate and they only go together one way (6 o'clock posistion in this pic): http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02428.JPG it should now look like this: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02420.JPG you do not need a spring compressor to begin threading the large 15/16" nut onto the strut shaft because the Intrax spring is so short. however, a helper will make things much easier since you do have to compress the spring a small amount. i had my brother push down on the upper strut mount while i held the strut shaft up as far as it would go with one hand (so the strut shaft poked up through the strut mount) and with my other hand i started threading the nut on: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02421.JPG and this is how it should look now (do NOT tighten the nut yet!): http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02422.JPG not done yet! you still need to make sure the 3 studs in the upper spring plate will align with the body of the car. note how each stud is a different distance from each other: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02426.JPG now bring the whole assembly outside to your car and pop the hood. it's time to align the upper spring plate so you can posistion the 3 studs correctly: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02429.JPG compare the posistions of the three studs in the upper spring plate with how they are posistioned to the strut already in the car. you want to posistion the upper strut plate just like that so the studs will go into the body of the car. DON'T tighten the 15/16" strut nut yet! simply thread it on enough to keep things held in place so nothing moves out of posistion. you don't want to have the spring compressed any more than you need to or this next step will be much harder. this next step is going to be a two person job! again looking at this pic: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02429.JPG place your foot through the axle opening in the lower strut/knuckle assembly to help hold the whole thing in place. now have a friend grab the lower strut bearing plate and hold it tightly in place to ensure it DOESN'T move. now grab the spring and rotate it clockwise until the three studs look like they will align with the body of the car. you want to turn it clockwise so the lower spring end stays in the correct place in the lower spring isolator. it helps to pull UP on the spring while you are turning the spring so that the lower spring isolator won't distort. NOTE: when doing the right side of the car, you'll be turning the spring counter clockwise. when you are confident everything is posistioned correctly you can now tighten the 15/16" strut nut. you'll need a T-50 Torx bit and have someone hold it in place so it doesn't rotate while you tighten the nut with a 15/16" end wrench. since you obviously can't use a torque wrench i just got the nut as tight as i could. and there you have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay3800 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Are the KYB mounts and boots any better than OEM pieces? I used generic upper mounts and ended up using the factory boots. They've worked well so far so I guess they're fine. Sweet looking install! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Are the KYB mounts and boots any better than OEM pieces? I used generic upper mounts and ended up using the factory boots. They've worked well so far so I guess they're fine. Sweet looking install! i'm not sure if the KYB mounts are any better than any other brand but i believe KYB makes good products fwiw. i got them from tirerack.com for $29 each. the KYB strut boots however are WAY nicer! they have an integrated jounce unlike the stock stuff and the boot is much softer rubber(?) & durable unlike the crappy stiff plastic stock boots that can crack. the KYB strut boots were $14 each from tirerack.com i finished them off with new AC Delco greaseable balljoints which were $47.79 each from rockauto.com: http://www.turbosedan.com/ste/brakes_susp/DSC02425.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeeJay3800 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Definitely! KYB is the best IMO. I forgot to mention I have GR-2's as well and that's why I was wondering if it was ok to use the OEM mounts and boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminal67 Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 any before and after pics? how much lower did it actually lower the front? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 i don't have them in yet. should probably be this week. it's going to have stinkbug stance until i get the FFP rear coilovers. i won't even be driving the car until then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 That was VERY well written up.... AND theat helps me out big time.. Thanks man!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroDCX Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Shouldn't this be posted in the FAQ section? It's well written with pictures and could be useful to people attempting the samething in future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 i might put it in FAQ but only when i'm completely finished and they are actually in the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted February 16, 2006 Report Share Posted February 16, 2006 Shit... i am still painting mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabz Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 One thing that may be an issue with the boot is that it does not cover the lower bearing not just the strut shaft. The stock boots go over the inner part of the lower strut bearing plate. I think it may need to be kept clean from dirt to prevent wear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroDCX Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 i might put it in FAQ but only when i'm completely finished and they are actually in the car. Right, well be sure to post pics when you get it all finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 One thing I never mentioned when I installed my springs on the TGP, I believe that the spring perch (lower bearing) is hitting the sheet metal of the inner fender on heavy bumps. It may only be because of my birchmount and its extreme stiffness, thus causing the rear to not give enough to prevent this. You may want to consider flattening out the inside of the lower bearing where it is close to the inner fender just slightly, as to prevent hard hitting and possible damage to said bearing. The other springs obviosuly created more of a gap between the perch and the edge on the inner fender. If you do not understand what I am saying, you will see it when it's installed. My advice is to not fully install it until you are sure that it will not contact with full compression of the spring. However that may not be the problem, it just may be that the spring becomes fully compressed and hits itself. I am going to give this a closer look this spring, as I have a list of things to do to the car. Either way you will like how it looks dropped. 8) Prepare to be a little bit bouncier at highway speeds, but holy shit, I thought my other TGP handled well with stock suspension + KYB struts. My car is literally on rails. There is no body roll at all and I have yet to install my front STB and buy a rear from AWeb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 One thing I never mentioned when I installed my springs on the TGP, I believe that the spring perch (lower bearing) is hitting the sheet metal of the inner fender on heavy bumps. It may only be because of my birchmount and its extreme stiffness, thus causing the rear to not give enough to prevent this. You may want to consider flattening out the inside of the lower bearing where it is close to the inner fender just slightly, as to prevent hard hitting and possible damage to said bearing. The other springs obviosuly created more of a gap between the perch and the edge on the inner fender. If you do not understand what I am saying, you will see it when it's installed. My advice is to not fully install it until you are sure that it will not contact with full compression of the spring. However that may not be the problem, it just may be that the spring becomes fully compressed and hits itself. I am going to give this a closer look this spring, as I have a list of things to do to the car. Either way you will like how it looks dropped. 8) Prepare to be a little bit bouncier at highway speeds, but holy shit, I thought my other TGP handled well with stock suspension + KYB struts. My car is literally on rails. There is no body roll at all and I have yet to install my front STB and buy a rear from AWeb. Ryan, it sounds like your lower strut bearing plate isn't in the right posisition. the lower strut bearing doesn't move with suspension travel...it's the car's body that moves and that is what is hitting the strut bearing in your case (that's what it sound like to me anyway). i understand what you are saying about how the other (stock) springs created more of a gap between the perch and the edge on the inner fender (since the whole assembly is shorter due to the shorter Intrax springs), but if you have the lower strut bearing intalled in the right place there should be enough clearance so it won't hit anything. in the case of my Cutlass, the shop that installed my Eibach springs didn't posistion the lower strut bearing plate correctly (though it's close) and the strut bearing plate hits the inner fenderwell plastic when the suspension is compressed enough (makes a popping sound when it happens and even worn a hole in the plastic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Dubya Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I'm pretty sure I have the bearings installed properly, it rides fine but hard bumps either compress the spring so far that it can't compress any more, or it is hitting the inner fender sheet metal, no plastic contact from what I can tell. I will be looking into it pretty soon as it's almost march and it will be coming out sometime in April for some fluid changes and a thorough look over. Might be getting the paint work touched up hopefully so it actually looks like a 40k mi TGP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron350 Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 TurboSedan Great article. You do NOT use the KYB supplied zip ties to secure the lower part of the strut boot to the strut assembly!: Could you explain how the lower part of the strut boot is attached? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 19, 2006 Report Share Posted February 19, 2006 it doesn't attatch at all since the strut shaft turns when the wheels are turned. if you were to ziptie the lower part of the boot it would twist up when the wheels were turned. it's all explained in the directions that come with the KYB strut boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luminal67 Posted March 4, 2006 Report Share Posted March 4, 2006 where did you buy the intrax springs from? Also, it it together yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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