Turbocharged400sbc Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 Hey guys (and gals ) While scoring some parts for a Hyundai Elantra we are trying to sell at a local Jyard I'm in good with (B&H here in Rockford-yard hunting is closed except fer employee's...but they let my redneck @ss in there ) well i got a couple of questions answered...but one more pressing issue i dont have answered... I can get two 00+ impalla (W) subframes (the extruded aluminum ones) with the 9C1/Taxi swaybars, control arms, and spindles/knuckles WITH the 12 inch brakes/calipers for 300$ so that means the 442 can have 12 inch ventilated disk brakes all the way around and massive swaybars front and rear (i couldnt get an exact measurment but they def look thicker than 1 inch :shock: ) ANNND we can drop a TON of weight off of her 4330lb @$$ now the question is since the 94 442 (Cutty Supreme) is also a W body but of an earlier year...and since both have 4 pucks on the subframes are the unibody mount dimentions the same??? The rack and pinion mounts look like they are the same... and the lower control arms are very similar as far as i can recall I could care less about whether they will bolt to the 3100 (looks like it though, but we will be havin two 3800's ) Al hasent had the ability to take measurment directly from the 442 front subframe to compare before we buy them... Also would the already brand new front struts from the 442 fit the knuckles with the 12 inch brakes...the Brakes are no problem for us to adapt hoses to so no worry's there... i am almost positive though these will have to be changed and another issue is whether the new rear struts (for a 90 Toronado Trofeo-the rear 3800 doner car) will also bolt to the spindles (again the ear width looks the same but wondering if strut length changed) we would hate to have to buy new struts...since we already have 4 brand new struts with less than 600 miles on them... IIRC the struts on the front and on the rear of the 442 look almost identical from the knuckle up. we will be reworking the rear cage/chassis anyway this season to drop some weight since we have the 10pt rollcage so making the aluminum rear subframe fit isnt an issue...but it means more weight loss... and i know the mount setup for the LN3 transaxle are the same as the subframes so the engine/tranaxle will bolt right into the aluminum version (though we will be doing a lighter version of our welded straight rear steering rack to keep the rear's straight---NO we will not try and rig up a 4 wheel steering setup...too much work lol) If anyone could help us out it will help us make up our minds as to what we want to do Regards, James Oh and Damon (works at B&H) said that he could probably hook me up with an L36 (with a spun bearing but all i need is a single rod and piston to make the good L36 short block we have good as new (it has a chipped piston) and be able to drop it into the front while i am still working on the SI/SII Hybrid project-which i would still need a set of heads and the valvetrain from a SII for) along with a harness though i dont think i will grab the PCM as we plan on running MegaSquirtnSpark DIY EFI, but i might so we dont have to mess with that yet as we will be playing with the MS EFI for the LN3 that is getting Turbocharged... we'll see how long the recently built-up 94 4T60E will hold up behind the 3800 NA while we will be seeing how the 440T4 holds up to the Turbocharged LN3 3800... There's nevar enough time in a gearheads life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianteel Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 i did not rea everything but the 2nd gen W-frames are different then the 1st gen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted January 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 i did not rea everything but the 2nd gen W-frames are different then the 1st gen Ok that being the case i think there are 3 different subframes... I have a 90 grandprix subframe that measures completly differently than the 93 regal subframe laying right next to it (have yet to take them in fer scrap) which seems to match up with the hastily taken measurments off of the 442 (damn snow) I am looking to go to the Jyard today during my lunch hour to take measurments off of the 00' impalla aluminum subframe...if they are close enough (that i can drill new holes or TIG on material to make it work-Think of the weight savings! ) you bet yer @$$ i'll make sure we throw one in the frontand one in the rear of the 442... i'll tell ya one thing them aluminum units weigh alot less than a steel one... James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 have pics of the two different first gen sub frames? that's interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted January 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I will try to get them side by side and snap a pic when i can... I measured the aluminum subframe and the rear pucks are 1 inch closer together (OK thats not tooo bad) the front two pucks are also 1 inch narrower (Hmmm) measuring from the front side puck to the rear puck on that side netted me 41 inches (this is close to what i measured on the 442 but the way we measured the 442 this # is questionable but may be dead on.... sounds good sooo far... one thing i think though is that the front puck mounts that sit above the bottom of the cradle may be around 1.5 inches taller on the aluminum subframe but i think we can just leave the top of the mount off and have solid front subframe mounts... needless to say it looks like we might go fer the deal...but hold off on the brakes till we can compare it to the front subframe of the 442... using one for the rear 3800 will just require a little reworking of the rollcage/shassis mounts... Regards, James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Regal Limited Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 awesome! Also I have a question How did you get the engine in the rear, tranny in the front and still go forwards? I wonder if I can fit an iron duke in a lawntractor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted January 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 awesome! Also I have a question How did you get the engine in the rear, tranny in the front and still go forwards? I wonder if I can fit an iron duke in a lawntractor.... ummm we have two FWD drivetrains...two engines and two transaxles... we basically welded/bolted in the front half of a 90 Olds Toronado Trofeo into the back of the 442... we just put both tranzaxles in OD and floor it.... I have seen a GM 4tech 4 banger installed into an allice-chalmers tractor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 I have seen a GM 4tech 4 banger installed into an allice-chalmers tractor... Why would they want to make it slower?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Regal Limited Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have seen a GM 4tech 4 banger installed into an allice-chalmers tractor... Why would they want to make it slower?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted January 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have seen a GM 4tech 4 banger installed into an allice-chalmers tractor... Why would they want to make it slower?? it doubled the Hp...from 40Hp to 80Hp 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have a 90 grandprix subframe that measures completly differently than the 93 regal subframe laying right next to it (have yet to take them in fer scrap) which seems to match up with the hastily taken measurments off of the 442 (damn snow) That's strange, they should be identical, with the only difference being the possibility that the 90 subframe lacks the 3.4/3800 mount locations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 I have seen a GM 4tech 4 banger installed into an allice-chalmers tractor... Why would they want to make it slower?? it doubled the Hp...from 40Hp to 80Hp 8) I was going to ask if it doubled the HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5speedz34 Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Why not just make your own out of aluminum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why not just make your own out of aluminum? Price. it is far easier to modify a factory aluminum subframe (since it doesnt look like it needs a whole lot of work) than to completly fabricate an aluminum subframe...which at the min would require a jig to be built. the factory piece is made from extuded aluminum and is made to handle various loads as well as crash worthiness... its just easier to modify the factory piece than to start from scratch. and besides with the rear subframe we will be modifying the rollcage/chassis mounts and use the alum subframe as is...[br]Posted on: January 26, 2006, 08:51:39 PM_________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbocharged400sbc Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 FOR FUTURE SEARCHES! from this topic: http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,46291.0.html Gen 2 cradles (including the aluminum one) are very different. They might as well have come off a different car... which they pretty much did, because gen 2 and gen 1 W's share very few chassis parts. Yeah Turbocharged400sbc knows the specifics, and he's posted the difference before. There were lots. yeah i'm still alive... yes they are very different, but in good ways, much more engineering went into the 2nd gen parts, control arm design is better, as are the brakes... http://www.w-body.com/forum/index.php/topic,38066.0.html thats my original thread (it seems like ages ago lol) i havent updated it but i will just paste this there...and link back to this thread also for future searchers yes it is do-able, at least for a couple of rednecks with a plasmacutter and my next big purchase a HTP InverTIG 201 (2300$ it costs less than my plasmacutter!!! i want to get it in the next year or so) first off the front and rear puck mounts have to be moved outboard (well the rears at least, gime a sec) the front kickups to the unibody are taller on the gen 2 but if the puck is left out it can be solidly bolted to the G1 unibody with drilled holes in the proper spot. the steering racks mount the same way and with the same c 2 c spacing on the rack mount ears, as for proper location that would have to wait till it is mocked up you will have to use the G2 lower control arms and swaybar, which of course requires that you also use the G2 spindle/knuckle (with the larger brakes! which is another good thing, and even alum also!) and also possibly the strut though i have not yet looked into that. so yes it is possible, but with major work and only then as a complete package deal of the subframe, rear pucks, swaybar, control arms, spindles, brakes, and struts. the multiple benifits might well be worth it in the end, but many wouldnt have the tools or ability to fab the modifications required, i would venture a guess and say that we may be the first once we get around to it, the 442 is already turning into a unique test bed for stuff we are working on and a alum subframe swap would make it that much more different, but first we would be swapping it into the rear engine compartment as we would only have to reposition the front outriggers of the tube chassis which is easier... I will be buying the TIG welder so that i can do the work on the custom sheetmetal intake for the SI/SII Hybrid 3800 engine project but also to be able to modify the alum subframe, every bit of weight we drop off of her 4330lb ass will help us go faster and i see a possibilty of the modified subframes being marketable to Gen 1/swapped Gen1 guys also looking to upgrade their brakes as well as weight loss. so i could possibly weld up a jig and make a few of em... i'm not saying this is a front burner project for us (the turbo fab on the rear 3800 and dropping in the front 3800 are first!) but it's just below the SI/SII Hybrid project on my list...so i'd say around 3 years down the road...but who knows maybe longer, the 442 is in constant evolution... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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