GOT2B GM Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I got pulled over last night by a cop who says my HID's are too blue. He never complained about the brightness. I tried explaining to him that my headlights are exactly the same as ones that come factory installed in many of todays high end vehicles, but he wouldn't accept that. He gave me a $110 CDN ticket under the Ontario Highway Traffic Act 62(1). "Drive without proper headlights - motor vehicle" Here's a quote of the act that pertains to me: "...every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle shall carry three lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on each side of the front of the vehicle which shall display a white or amber light only..." He based the color of my HID headlamps purely on his opinion and in comparison to the regular halogens in his cruiser, which makes my lights look blue and his yellow. I have my headlamps aimed properly and I never get flashed by oncoming traffic. I just simply upgraded my vehicle's headlamp system to the newest standard in lighting technlogy. Just because I don't own an expensive vehicle doesn't mean I can't enjoy the benefits of HID lighting. Basically, this ticket comes down to what your definition of "white" is. I'm thinking about taking this to court to have it overturned. I think it's a stupid ticket based purely on biased opinion. What do you guys think I should do??? If this is in the wrong section, please mods, feel free to move. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Moff Joseph Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I'd certainly fight it, as that ticket is way too biased and arbitrary. Like you said, if your lights are illegal, then so are the factory HIDs in my Infiniti. If all else fails, switch the bulbs before you go to court... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabz Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 what did u get? Ontario cops seem to be the worst. my 6000k, where pretty white after they warmed up take this chart into court and show them. from http://www.tbyrne.com/hids/hids.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 That's the fucking most retarded thing I've ever heard. It sounds like someone's trying to fill quota. Fight the fuck out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdcutty Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Yep, fight it. That ticket is bullshit, total bullshit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euro Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 yeah thats a BS ticket....he was trying to fill his damned quota.... ive never heard of anybody getting a ticket for any type of headlight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1990lumina Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Probably because it wasn't original equiptment...however I'd still fight it...the lights on my uncle's TL are fuckin bright as hell and he doesn't get a ticket for it, but that's because it's original equiptment and there isn't a damn thing they can do about it. I'd fight it though man...trying to have the best lighting at night shouldn't be illegal, especially if they are aimmed right like you said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Guess the cops are swamped pulling over all those BMWs, Mercedes, and other cars with these headlights in them because these vehicles are far from having white lamps. Tell the court that. Also take a picture of your head lights on and a picture of the above cars with the same ...even better if you park your car next to theirs with the lights on for comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 You should have some sort of documentation that came with your HID bulbs saying they are legal. I was going to say DOT legal, but since you're in Canada I'm not sure that applies. I'd show up in court with that paperwork, there shouldn't be much of a problem. The ruch judge probably has some expensive car with HID lights too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuntzie Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 matt... coming from a local person..... the lights in my TGP are cool blues (Highs)/ and silverstars(Low beam).... both are available at crappy tires and have no indication of being illegal... i got pulled over for the silverstars... thats right silverstars... there not even blue... any ways i got a ticket and went to court.... the cop also showed me a comparison of my lights to his.... mine appeared to be "blue" in his eyes... in court i brouhgt up i wasnt speeding or doing anything dangerous and didnt deserve to be pulled over. i also brought up ( and barely knowing anything about it at all) that there is no such thing as white..... (i knew id win anyways b/c the lights are 100% legal and i brought the boxes into court-- didnt use them though) im like why do you think there is white balance on a camera, because all lighting is different.... all clear bulbs produce a different shade of "white" and one you have one extreme example of a cold or "blue tinted white" and a warm "amber cloured white" next to eachother you can see a large difference. but if you had 100 different brands of lights in between it would be hard to tell the difference from one to another..... dont worry about it man... no way the ticket will stand up in court Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gp90se Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I know in the states it is illegal to modify the lighting on your vehical, however, it is an upgrade which is stock on newer vehicals. Go in with a list of specs of your HIDs and the specs on lets say a lexus. As long as yours arent 3x brighter, you should be in the clear. good luck to ya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 not to be a dick, but most HID's in cars aren't the purple that some of the 8000k + hid kits are. Around here lots of ricers have the hid conversions and get tickets all the time, and also blind the fuck out of the rest of us. When you go to court, make sure you know if they are legal in Canada, and if so bring paper work to show it. I'm guessing they aren't legal though. I'm not saying yours are like that, and if you aimed them properly,and didn't get the 8000k then you should fight it. Just trying to show you a different point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitcor Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I know in the states it is illegal to modify the lighting on your vehical, however, it is an upgrade which is stock on newer vehicals. Go in with a list of specs of your HIDs and the specs on lets say a lexus. As long as yours arent 3x brighter, you should be in the clear. good luck to ya Actually you can modify your lighting as you please in the US as long as it meets Department of Transportation standards as a minimum. Your state, county or city may have addational restrictions as to what you can have. However, in most places, sticking with DOT approved lighting will not get you a ticket. Ive been pulled over for my silverstars before however I just so happen to carry a spare set with me (silverstars like to burn out) and I showed the officer the DOT approved logo on the packaging. Then I only got a ticket for speeding :oops: Canada also has a DOT like orginization: http://www.tc.gc.ca Headlighting Requirements  Section S7 of TSD 108 (25) For the purposes of these Regulations, the DOT symbol marked on the lens of a headlamp or of a beam contributor pursuant to section S7.2(a) of TSD 108 indicates that the headlamp or beam contributor conforms to TSD 108. (26) Despite section S5.1.1 of TSD 108, sections S7.3.7(a) and S7.3.8(a) of TSD 108 do not apply to the headlamps on a bus, truck, multipurpose passenger vehicle, passenger car or three-wheeled vehicle. (27) Despite section S7.3.7(e)(8) of TSD 108, the figures to which a deflectometer referred to in section 4.5 of SAE Standard J580, Sealed Beam Headlamp Assembly (December 1986) shall be designed to conform are those specified in a standard or recommended practice issued by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) or provided by the vehicle manufacturer to the Director General, at the Director General's request. (28) Despite section S7.3.8©(2) of TSD 108, the figures to which the special adapter and the deflectometer shall be designed to conform are those specified in a standard or recommended practice issued by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) or provided by the vehicle manufacturer to the Director General, at the Director General's request. (29) The aiming mechanism of every headlamp assembly and front fog lamp assembly shall conform to section 5.13.5 of SAE Recommended Practice J1383, Performance Requirements for Motor Vehicle Headlamps (June 1990). (30) Headlamp assemblies and front fog lamp assemblies incorporating retaining rings shall conform to section 5.23.2 of SAE Recommended Practice J1383, Performance Requirements for Motor Vehicle Headlamps (June 1990). (31) In addition to the requirements of section S7.3 of TSD 108, sealed beam headlamps with plastic lenses or reflectors shall conform to sections S7.4(g) and (h) of TSD 108. (32) Despite section S7.4(a)(3) of TSD 108, a motorcycle headlamp system is not required to be equipped with the Vehicle Headlamp Aiming Device (VHAD) specified in section S7.8.5.2 of TSD 108. (33) Despite section S7.5(g) of TSD 108, where the only replaceable light source in a headlamp is Type HB1, the lens of the headlamp shall bear a permanent marking that states the HB Type. (34) [Reserved] (35) [Reserved] (36) [Reserved] (37) [Reserved] (38) [Reserved] (39) [Reserved] (40) Every front fog lamp assembly or auxiliary front lamp assembly that may be switched on simultaneously with the low beam headlamps on a bus, truck, multipurpose passenger vehicle, passenger car or three-wheeled vehicle shall (a) in the case of a lamp assembly that has a mechanism that allows adjustment of the vertical and horizontal aim, conform to sections S7.8.2, S7.8.2.2, S7.8.3, S7.8.4 and S7.8.5.1© of TSD 108; and ( in the case of a lamp assembly that has a mechanism that only allows adjustment of the vertical aim, conform to sections S7.8.2, except that no horizontal aim mechanism need be provided, S7.8.2.2, S7.8.3 and S7.8.5.1© of TSD 108. (41) For the purpose of demonstrating the compliance of a headlamp assembly with the torque deflection test described in section S7.8.5.1(a) of TSD 108, the downward torque of 2.25 N•m (20 lb.-in.) shall be measured at the aiming reference plane, as defined in section S4 of TSD 108. (42) The information contained in a label referred to in section S7.8.5.2( of TSD 108 shall be in both official languages. (43) The operator's manual referred to in section S7.8.5.2( of TSD 108 shall be published by the manufacturer or importer of the vehicle in both official languages. (43.1) Despite section S7.9.6.2 and Table IV of TSD 108, if a headlamp system installed on a motor tricycle consists of two headlamps that are horizontally disposed about the vertical centreline, it may be installed in accordance with the requirements of section S.5.3.1 and Table IV of TSD 108 for headlamp systems installed on passenger cars. http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GENERAL/m/mvsa/regulations/mvsrg/100/mvsr108.html#Required_Motor_Vehicle_Lighting_Equipment_â€â€_Section_S5.1_of_TSD_108_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patgizz Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 does canada have something like the DOT that the US does that approves lighting? or do your lights carry a DOT type stamp on them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 I really doubt fighting it is going to do much, unless the cop really was stepping out of bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_399 Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 i am going to be the devils advocate here... but isnt it really illegal to have after market HID's on a car that is not made for HID's? HID's are only legal for factory installed? ie bmw, lexus, infiniti..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manitcor Posted December 19, 2005 Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 in general they are legal if they meet certain specifcations. Many cars with non-hids stock have HID upgrades which include housings and projectors speciffcly for the HID application. Throwing HIDs in a stock housing is illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Well, I have HID's in my stock housing, no projectors. The ballasts and box/instructions have DOT approval on them, but I beleive thats only valid in the States. My HID's are 8000K in color, which are *slightly* more blue than my friends 6000K. His 6000K are actually brighter than my 8000K. But, in comparison to a factory equipped car, the color is very close. I'm hoping the judge will like the DOT approval, and the fact that many of cars nowadays come with the same lights from the factory, and let me off. I might even use that chart to prove what "white" light actually is. I'm going to go in and get a court date set after Christmas. Thanks for all the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2005 Pics of them here: Daytime pics, DOT approval on ballasts, crappy night pics(camera glare) http://www.w-body.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35720 HID low beams vs. Halogen high beams on road http://www.w-body.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35720&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15 Good nighttime pics http://www.w-body.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35720&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91GPSTE Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I think cop was BSing. Shoulda asked him if he pulls over all the Beemers and Benzs that he sees. However, I don't think you can win by going to court because the lights were not factory installed. You could try BSing the judge by telling him that the car came this way when you bought it and that your lights are bright white, not blue and that you have amber markers as per regulation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 what K are your lights, i know anything above 4400 or someting is unnecessary and is just color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pabz Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 My HID's are 8000K in color, which are *slightly* more blue than my friends 6000K. That dot aproval should get you the win! But becarful, he'll be a dick and say "well son, this is canada not the US .. blah blah blah, pay the fine." I will consult with a friends lawyer buddy and see what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOT2B GM Posted December 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 OK Thanks Pabz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarloChick Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 You should take them out and stop blinding me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted December 20, 2005 Report Share Posted December 20, 2005 I think your missing something here.... there busting you because they are too blue. Print out your daytime pic when you go in for court, and ask the judges opinion. If the judge agrees with you, just tell them you will switch to a lower "k" number they agree to, and hand them the chart. You could also point out where the Lexas's and Beemers fall on that same chart, then you would probably be dismissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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