Putting Gen2 struts on a pre97 GP

[Jon89le]

Newer GP suspension. I tried to search this but i didnt get too far; but why exactly cant we use their setup? Has anyone done the conversion?Does anyone have a picture of what the top strut assembly looks like on theirs (from underneath the strut plates in the engine bay)? If say, a billet aluminum adapter was made to mate the two, does anyone have any other input as to why it wouldnt work? I have ACAD and can make an adapter that i could fabricate in my schools machine shop (benefits of being in engineering). I have also found websites that can make control arms either from design or if you give them a stock one. Im aware that the geometry would most likely be altered but lets exclude that for now. Thanks

[pwmin]

this guy on cgp did it (1.5G). i also have a set of plates from an hms coilover kit for 1.5 monte i want to get rid of if that would help

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/showProfile.asp?memid=22443

[Jon89le]

Side Note: Im refering to the front, not rear.

 

 

I had a thread posted on CGP since thats where im at mostly. I figured id see if anyone here performed it also to get more input. More the merrier. Thanks

[GnatGoSplat]

Why would you want to? It's easier to change our struts, and the 97+ hubs are far more unreliable.

[94CutlassSLCoupe]

Probably for the brakes...Although my car is a small rotor car and the brakes still aren't that much worse than the '97 GP GT my mom has

[Jon89le]

They have more brake and suspension applications available than we do. I also have an issue that i cant run any larger brakes on my car now w/o wheel adapters and I cant run those because my front is too low from the ST springs. So its more than one reason. From the info ive obtained from pics it doesnt seem to difficult. This winter when the car goes off the road I will be purchasing a whole strut assembly to see what needs to be done. Im already prepared to fab up a top mount adapter or LCA.

[GnatGoSplat]

Hmmm, either way you would already have to do a lot of fabbing, why not just fab up a little bracket that bolts or welds onto the existing knuckles and install C5 brakes? You could elongate the holes on C5 rotors so that they'll fit, and I doubt that would have any ill effects considering the rotors will fit hubcentric since they both have the same 70.3mm center bore.

 

That was something in my long term plans. It just seems it'd come out a lot cleaner to do that than fabbing up the LCA's and a new upper mount. Not to mention it won't affect suspension/steering geometry and we can still keep our more reliable front hubs that way.

[Jon89le]

Having my rotors machined every time i needed new ones I didn't want to go through. Im not sure if that would be so much easier though. How would you go about modifying the hub to hold the deeper rotor? Also, for the LCAs, I was looking into having them stamped out from an ACAD design. I havent had a chance to call the places i know extrude aluminum, etc however.

[GnatGoSplat]

I think if you used stock C5 rotors, I don't think you'd really need to get them machined. I suppose you could if you wanted the exact proper bolt pattern, but I was thinking simply elongating the holes would be good enough. They would just need to be elongated inwards about 1/8" since the bolt pattern isn't that far off. It wouldn't really take too long to do.

 

You could also use GP 12" rotors and calipers instead, but I figured if fabrication is involved, might as well go to C5 brake hardware since it's really not all that expensive.

 

I didn't think the rotors were so deep that they wouldn't fit on the hub, but I've never tried. Have you found they're too deep?

 

I've seen pics of C5 front rotors and I didn't think they looked too deep.

[Jon89le]

I have a buddy that has a spare LS1 fbody assembly waiting to be put on, i suppose I can look at those. Whats so bad about the Gen2 GP hubs? I haven't heard about any issues with them.

[GnatGoSplat]

They go bad real easy. I don't know if it'll work, but if you do a search for "hub" on ClubGP's 97+ sections, you'll probably find a lot of people that needed to replace them.

 

They also did a lot of other cost-reduction stuff, like integrating the ABS sensor and going to 3-bolts instead of 4. That's not necessarily bad, but it makes replacing a bad ABS sensor a lot more expensive and usually more bolts means more strength.

[Jon89le]

Well no-ABS here so im good there. Either way, I'll be looking into both cases. The route with the best payoff/price is where i'll go.

[GnatGoSplat]

Let me know what you find out.

 

I had to change the pads on my 94 last night so I took a good look. It does kind of look like clearance might be tight since the bottom part of the knuckle is so large. It's really hard to tell without getting ahold of some parts for test-fitting though.

[pwmin]

:oops: shoulda recognized you from cgp. sry i couldnt help. let us know what you find out.

[Jon89le]

shoulda recognized you from cgp. sry i couldnt help. let us know what you find out.

 

Its all good, i knew you meant well, .

 

Shawn,

Even if those C5/fbody were able to go on, i would still have my issue of the brakes not clearing and im too low to space the rim out further. I'll be figuring some of this out over my thanksgiving break when I go back home. The real work will be done once im home after this semester finishes mid-Dec. I may choose to not get any parts made though since I want to start a powder coating thing on the side. I'll keep the board informed either way.

 

BTW, do you happen to know the center bore size on the mustangs? Im asking since their bolt pattern is basically ours.

[GnatGoSplat]

I'm not sure what you mean by C5/f-body brakes not clearing? Clearing the knuckle, or clearing the wheel? If you mean the latter, I don't think they stick out any more our existing brakes... in fact, I think they couldn't, C5 wheels have something like a 50-something mm offset.

 

I think Mustangs have a 70.6mm center bore and we have a 70.3mm center bore. Their wheels do fit our cars.

[Jon89le]

Clearing the rim itself. The way it is now, the only way for me to run larger rotors would be to space the rim out more, or upgrade to a setup where the rotor spaces the rim further away from the caliper. I wish i could explain that better. Like the Gen2 GPs, their rotors have a deeper "hub" than ours do. Ours is maybe 0.5" deep. Does that make any sense?

[GnatGoSplat]

Yeah, the C5 brakes definitely have a deeper hub than ours, so they definitely wouldn't push the caliper out any more.

I actually found a template for C5 brakes (since it's a common mod on G-bodies and F-bodies), and they have a lot more clearance than ours so you wouldn't have to space the rim out further.

[timg]

The GP rotors won't fit over the front hubs- I tried. They're too deep.

 

Tim

[Jon89le]

The GP rotors of what year wont fit over what hubs?

[pwmin]

tim tried the larger gen 2 impala brakes

[blackbombshell95]

the hubs to go out quite often. a local club member just had his changed.

[Jon89le]

Alright, Gen 2 brakes...does that mean Gen 2 rotors on our hubs? I would be replacing the entire strut assembly.

[pwmin]

i believe so, yes. you could try to find tim and ask him directly.

 

you need to get that figured out and get the baer 6piston caliper kit :shock: