RebelGT Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 what problems can I expect if I fun the stock TGP code and the 3 speed tranny? I'm guessing there will be some problems with the TC, not sure what else may happen, any insite would be great. Also if anyone has some schematics for as far as the ECM is concerned, like what pin controls what that would be great to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 10, 2003 Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 You shouldn't run into problems using the TGP code. I used the TGP chip on the GTU without any problems. The auto ran perfect without a miss or hissitation. Basicly the 440-t4 is a 3t-40 with overdrive. Your rev limit shift possitions(nutral,park) should work fine. The TGP chip thinks it still has the 440-t4 but it thinks that you have it in D and not in OD. YOur converter shouldn't have problems since its not mechanicly locked up by the trans or any wires. Its non electonic. for the pin outs on your '730 ecm got to http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/quadplugecm.html They also compare the pinouts to the 727 ecm from the under hood cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2003 so you used the w-body harness? or did you use the existing wireing harness in your beretta? My plans right now are to just reroute the wires to the comp, using the existing harness, what would you suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I used the stock ecm and wires and added an extra wire to the computer to control the boost selinoid. I just chiped the computer with the TGP chip(memcal). Are you trying to use the '727 ecm(under hood-wbody, TGP,lumina,ect.) or are you saying your going to add wires to your existing ecm like I did? If your going to use the '727 ecm then yea it would be great to use your existing stock harness and using a adapter to mate it to the '727 ecm. Me being so lazy for wires and swaping ecm, I just took the easy way out. I just added that one wire that needed to be connect to the ecm to control the boost controlling selinoid. All of the people I spoke to and diagrams I saw point out that the '730 and 727 ecms are the same. But the 727 is just modified to be run under hood. THey have different connectors and casings but same internals,,just some diodes I saw that were different. But wait , what year is your car. Is it the 3100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 11, 2003 Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 what problems can I expect if I fun the stock TGP code and the 3 speed tranny? I'm guessing there will be some problems with the TC, not sure what else may happen, any insite would be great. Also if anyone has some schematics for as far as the ECM is concerned, like what pin controls what that would be great to. There is code and tables in the TGP chip to run the torque converter, and wires from the TGP ECM to the connector on the side of the tranny (to access the TC Clutch Solenoid), so yes you might want to look into that!! Check those diagrams again for this tie-in, or any library in the reference section, I have seen tons of info in my life, and have walls of books but I was still impressed (and copied!!!) a lot of info the library did have!!!! As is said here, it will just think you are in 3rd gear of the 4 in the 4T60, but those gears 1st, 2nd and 3rd are looked at by the ECM/wiring!!!! They allow the ECM to monitor and control quite a few things (not worth getting into here long post) but know its enough to check the wiring of the 3 speed for these inputs to graft into your ECM wiring harness, again the library will have any info on this you might need…..and as I recall, there are some long/very large wiring diagram books on the bottom shelves since they are too big to fit up on the shelves!!! Cannot say anymore than that, its is still new territory for me but this info will help you find out how it can work! Good luck! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2003 I used the stock ecm and wires and added an extra wire to the computer to control the boost selinoid. I just chiped the computer with the TGP chip(memcal). Are you trying to use the '727 ecm(under hood-wbody, TGP,lumina,ect.) or are you saying your going to add wires to your existing ecm like I did? If your going to use the '727 ecm then yea it would be great to use your existing stock harness and using a adapter to mate it to the '727 ecm. Me being so lazy for wires and swaping ecm, I just took the easy way out. I just added that one wire that needed to be connect to the ecm to control the boost controlling selinoid. All of the people I spoke to and diagrams I saw point out that the '730 and 727 ecms are the same. But the 727 is just modified to be run under hood. THey have different connectors and casings but same internals,,just some diodes I saw that were different. But wait , what year is your car. Is it the 3100? I have the 3.1 MFI, so no OBD2 probs at least Ben, Brand and I were looking at the diagrams and it looked to use like I wouldn't be able to just add one wire and put in the code to get this to work. But if it worked for you, this is making me soldering iron extremely happy Have you had any probs so far with any other ECM controls running things this way? What pin did you solder the extra wire on to? Isn't there more than one extra wire to add, because isn't there an intercooler fan and some other extra stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Good thing to hear that you have the non-obd2. The problems I had running the stock ecm with the TGP memcal is that the boost fuel cut off didn't work---prob good thing, the batt guage didn't turn into boost guage--prob cuz the TGP cluster has different stuff on that guage--Though all the GTUs guages worked like they should, and the boost controller didn't work---it's probly cuz my remanufactured ecm is scrued up, I will get anotherone just to make sure. I connected an extra wire to the stock ecm on Pin F2 to connect the boost seliniod and another wire to the egr hot in run wire for the other pin on the boost selinoid. Sopposidly the boost selinoid has to get ground from the computer via Pin F2(A18 on TGP) to activate and stop presured air from going to the wastegate, as soon as the computer reads some excessive boost for a given rpm and load, it will stop giving ground to the selinoid and therefore the boosted air will enter the wastegate and therefore bleed excessive boost. THis is how it's suppose to work. Your ecm should work, mines seems to have bugs in it-I will get another. Yes the TGP has a push fan. The diagram I have shows on the 88-90 gp ecm that pin A9 (pin E8 in ours)is the cooling fan relay activator. It doesn't list the other relay output control. I think I have a schemantic for the complete TGP ecm outputs. I will try to get back on you on that. I did connect a push fan for my GTU but its used to help cool the condensor and readiator and is activated when the main fan is activated. I am still figuring out where to tap the wires for the air temp since the beretta had it integrated into the mass. There's other stuff that the TGP computer controlls like the HUD display and some other gismos the Beretta doesn't have and need. Those other things are just accesories. They are not for driveability. I don't know if you have the digital display guages. Maybe your wires are different for that kind of car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Good thing to hear that you have the non-obd2. The problems I had running the stock ecm with the TGP memcal is that the boost fuel cut off didn't work---prob good thing, the batt guage didn't turn into boost guage--prob cuz the TGP cluster has different stuff on that guage--Though all the GTUs guages worked like they should, and the boost controller didn't work---it's probly cuz my remanufactured ecm is scrued up, I will get anotherone just to make sure. I connected an extra wire to the stock ecm on Pin F2 to connect the boost seliniod and another wire to the egr hot in run wire for the other pin on the boost selinoid. Sopposidly the boost selinoid has to get ground from the computer via Pin F2(A18 on TGP) to activate and stop presured air from going to the wastegate, as soon as the computer reads some excessive boost for a given rpm and load, it will stop giving ground to the selinoid and therefore the boosted air will enter the wastegate and therefore bleed excessive boost. THis is how it's suppose to work. Your ecm should work, mines seems to have bugs in it-I will get another. Yes the TGP has a push fan. The diagram I have shows on the 88-90 gp ecm that pin A9 (pin E8 in ours)is the cooling fan relay activator. It doesn't list the other relay output control. I think I have a schemantic for the complete TGP ecm outputs. I will try to get back on you on that. I did connect a push fan for my GTU but its used to help cool the condensor and readiator and is activated when the main fan is activated. I am still figuring out where to tap the wires for the air temp since the beretta had it integrated into the mass. There's other stuff that the TGP computer controlls like the HUD display and some other gismos the Beretta doesn't have and need. Those other things are just accesories. They are not for driveability. I don't know if you have the digital display guages. Maybe your wires are different for that kind of car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Good thing to hear that you have the non-obd2. The problems I had running the stock ecm with the TGP memcal is that the boost fuel cut off didn't work---prob good thing, the batt guage didn't turn into boost guage--prob cuz the TGP cluster has different stuff on that guage--Though all the GTUs guages worked like they should, and the boost controller didn't work---it's probly cuz my remanufactured ecm is scrued up, I will get anotherone just to make sure. I connected an extra wire to the stock ecm on Pin F2 to connect the boost seliniod and another wire to the egr hot in run wire for the other pin on the boost selinoid. Sopposidly the boost selinoid has to get ground from the computer via Pin F2(A18 on TGP) to activate and stop presured air from going to the wastegate, as soon as the computer reads some excessive boost for a given rpm and load, it will stop giving ground to the selinoid and therefore the boosted air will enter the wastegate and therefore bleed excessive boost. THis is how it's suppose to work. Your ecm should work, mines seems to have bugs in it-I will get another. Yes the TGP has a push fan. The diagram I have shows on the 88-90 gp ecm that pin A9 (pin E8 in ours)is the cooling fan relay activator. It doesn't list the other relay output control. I think I have a schemantic for the complete TGP ecm outputs. I will try to get back on you on that. I did connect a push fan for my GTU but its used to help cool the condensor and readiator and is activated when the main fan is activated. I am still figuring out where to tap the wires for the air temp since the beretta had it integrated into the mass. There's other stuff that the TGP computer controlls like the HUD display and some other gismos the Beretta doesn't have and need. Those other things are just accesories. They are not for driveability. I don't know if you have the digital display guages. Maybe your wires are different for that kind of car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Thanks Jeff for lending a hand on this matter. Wish I had a library like that . On another note: My shitty compute sucks! Cokie this you freaking EI6 :flip: Invalid-session this! Dam whats wrong this this thing! Please erase those other same post for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 12, 2003 Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 Thanks Jeff for lending a hand on this matter. Wish I had a library like that . On another note: My shitty compute sucks! Cokie this you freaking EI6 :flip: Invalid-session this! Dam whats wrong this this thing! Please erase those other same post for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 12, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2003 thanx for your help guys, this is extremely helpful! I was all worried i'd be stuck rewireing all this shizzle, not my idea of fun. I'm going to take a look at the dash of the w body next time i hit the junkyard, maybe i'll just make it fit in the retta if i have any probs like you were saying. The TC lockup i think i can fix in the code if i get that working i'll send you the .bin when i'm done, not quite sure though how that will all pan out, but it looks doable at the moment. Right now i'm trying to figure out a way of not moving the battery to the rear because i really don't want to have to mount an external kill switch to comply with NHRA/IHRA rules. I'm going to see i can maybe get a smaller honda battery or something to wedge in somewhere/how. It would be great to move the battery to the rear though, i could mount an intercooler horizontally in that location i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 13, 2003 Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 Ok so far this is what I found on the '727(TGP) ecm and '730(Beretta): Pin C20-2nd gear input (pin D4 on Beretta) Pin B7-TCC or Upshift (Pin F6 on Beretta) Pin D6-3rd gear input (Pin D15 on Beretta) Pin D22-4th gear input (Pin D14 on Beretta) Those gear inputs are swithches on the trans giving ground to the coputer telling it what gear its on. I don't have a Beretta wire schematic so I couldn't tell you what the beretta pins go to. Oh, now that I see what Pin B7 is, people converting to Manual trans can use that pin or TCC wire for a light to indicat upshift, of course you would have to see a M/T .bin file and put it into the TGP .bin. Ideas. Has it been done? cool eh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 D-4 Secound Gear Input F-6 Transaxle Converter Solenoid Control (shift indicator control [manual]) D-15 Third Gear Input D-14 Not Used looks good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 13, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2003 I just looked at the .bin and it says that the TCC will act at any speeds above 88 mph no matter what gear you're in, so thats cool, it will work like normal, and the midgear setups look fine also, so thats a load off my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z24 turbo 93 Posted March 16, 2003 Report Share Posted March 16, 2003 okay hold up ppl.. I am switching a tpg motor over to my 93 z24 3.1. Okay first of all does that have the 730 em that all of you are talking about and if it does are you saying that i can use the 730 ecm (original z24 ecm) and just add a wire to the connector for the solenoid and the car will run good??? i have a 3 speed auto too. I was talking to turboz24 (curtis) and he said i had to cut and put the tgp connector on by solder the wires back together for the car to work. And if we use the 730 ecm you can run jeff m's chip just fine??? If this info is correct it will save a big hassell reply asap please. thanks ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 So far yea. Of all the data I gather yea. But its not realy been proven untill I get my car running with a new ecm since I think mines was messedup. Lets move this to the Beretta.net forums or the 60dv6 forums. I think everyones like WHAT! Beretta talk! Yea Yea , but they are TGP powered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 660 yes, bnet no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93BerettaGt Posted March 18, 2003 Report Share Posted March 18, 2003 so what is the pin number that I add the two wires to the ecu for the wastegate solneiod? Cody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris88CL Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Ok one final rundown. I can use my stock engine harness, stock dash harness, and stock computer with just the TGP chip. I have to add a wire to the F2 position for the wastegate solenoid control (doesnt really matter anyway if I use an aftermarket boost controller, right?), and a wire from the EGR hot in run to the wastegate solenoid. Thats it?? You've gotta be kidding me. I can plugin a memcal meant for the 7727 and it will work fine in my 7730 (I think thats what I have.....89 2.8L)???? No real tranny issues or anything? If Im understanding this correctly then I'll be next in line for a performance TGP chip. What exactly are all the differences in the 7730 and 7727? The 7727 is meant for underhood mounting and has 4 ECM connectors right. The 7730, is meant for interior mounting and has how many ECM connectors? Pinouts are in a different location, but have the same inputs as far as sensor readings and stuff right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 28, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 Yeah, the wireing isn't much of an issue, as far as the tranny, it will work like normal, it will just think its in D instead of OD, so no biggy, all the TCC lockups are at the same points. There might be some speedo issues but i haven't tackled that yet. Theres no differance in the computers themselves, the casing and pinouts/connectors are different, bout it. Your computer has 3, the w body has 4, but all the pins are in same corresponding locations. I have a big excell sheet which shows that, heh (thanx ben for plotting that all out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris88CL Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 So do I need to make a wiring adapter to go from the stock beretta ECM connectors and make it work on the TGP ECM? OR can I get away with just using the TGP memcal and the stock computer and harness? Also, anyone have the part number for the TGP memcal? Thanks for all your help guys. Rebel can you please email me that excell spreadsheet at lezarch@hotmail.com ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted March 31, 2003 Report Share Posted March 31, 2003 http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/1937368.jpgWire layout conversion...any more questions regarding this should be posted on http://www.beretta.net or http://www.60degreev6.com forums under 2.8 3.1 3100 talk... Or email me at TurboGTU@aol.com. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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