tgpguy21 Posted February 26, 2003 Report Share Posted February 26, 2003 Does anyone know what type of turbo was used on the 89 prototype? If i remember right someone said something about it had different manifolds or somethin like that. How hard is it to find one of the turbos off that prototype?? what would be the best turbo upgrade for the TGP's?? what all would i have to do if i wanted to put on a bigger turbo, would you have to change the mounting flanges to make sure they line up with the stock ones?? I was thinking of going with jeffs cross pipe but if im gonna put on a bigger turbo i wanna know if its worth buying one right now or not. sorry about all the questions but i want to find this stuff out and this is obviously the best place to go for info. tgpguy21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted February 27, 2003 Report Share Posted February 27, 2003 It had a T3, made like 305 hp, and a controlled 220 lb ft. I really was not that unique though, a T3, for that matter a T25 can be made in a variety of configurations. The T25 on the TGP can be made to support 330 hp easy as a bolt back on T28/T3 Hybrid. A T3 can support up to 330 hp also (very similar to the upgraded TGP turbo). T3/T4 Hybrid can support from 250 to 500 hp. A T4 from 300 to 550 hp. The sweet 60 Series from Turbonetics can do 550+ hp with a very efficient compressor wheel! Beyond that to a single turbo supporting over 2,400 hp. So it all depends on your goals. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 So....was that any help, other questions?? Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted February 28, 2003 Report Share Posted February 28, 2003 oooo I have one!!! Whats the recipe for a 300+ hp 3.1 with a stock T-25???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 On the back of an international flatbed! The stock t-25 can flow a maximum of 250 hp. The easiest option is a T3/t28 hybrid. The t28 was used on a lot of japanese cars (nissans) so developements there can be transferred to our turbo's. Using the T3 compressor with a Super 60 wheel will get you about 340 hp, you can run less boost for less hp. Some say you can have the t25 compressor massaged for a larger wheel, but that might get you a 10% gain. Or about 25 hp for about $800 worth of work. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 The T25 on the TGP can be made to support 330 hp easy as a bolt back on T28/T3 Hybrid.Jeff M Easier to just quote myself But again, the TGP Turbo can be made into a T-3 Super 60/T28 Hybrid, supporting around 330 to 350 hp :read: depending on intercooler. Costs vary depending on who you use to do the work and what other rebuild options/upgrades you select. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Yah! Figured it wouldn't hurt to see it again! 'sides I couldn't remember if it was this thread or not, it was faster to type! Maybe what Intlcutlass doesn't realize is the T3/28 is a bolt in option. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 1, 2003 Report Share Posted March 1, 2003 Yep, you got it Chris, hope we cleared that one up, or check the link below, I would put the pic here but I have added enough pics to slow this posting down :shock: Before anyone goes there yes, the turbo on the right of the pic is a stock TGP turbo compressor side, note the size of the inlet bore and compressor wheel, then compare to the bore and compressor wheel on the TGP Upgraded Turbo on the left, that one supports the 330 to 350 hp range and is a bolt on/upgrade to an existing TGP turbo. Enjoy, now I need to go back to being a sicky . Jeff M http://www.turbograndprix.com/Turbo%20Upgrade2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90TGP Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 Oooooooooh! How much? :shock: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted March 3, 2003 Report Share Posted March 3, 2003 Actually I was reading Jeff's signature. The "350 hp TGP Turbo" in there just made me ask the question. So we are to assume from your post then that you have the t28?? I'm not splitting hairs or looking for contridictions, I want to clear that up. I have read some of the negitive posts directed towards Jeff and that is not my intention. I'm just curious, are you using a t28 and thats how you got to 350 hp, or are using a Stock turbo, and have some TGP secrets yet to be unvailed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 No problem, details are what saves mistakes later. As for some negative feedback, I like to think back on when I was looking to buy from a gentleman on eBay, he had an amazing 40,000 feedbacks, 10 Negatives and 39,990 Positive. There will always be a few that don’t work out, same as “can’t please all the people all the timeâ€Â. Anyways as for the turbo, the TGP stock T25 can be sent out to be gutted, machined and stuffed with the good stuff to be a T3/T28 hybrid supporting around 330 hp, 350 with a good intercooler upgrade! That should do it, as for price, a rebuild should be done at the same time, that runs around 350 or so, upgrade another 600 or so, making the total for a new/fully rebuilt upgraded bolt on TGP turbo of around $1,000. And just to be clear, the upgrade does not change the external dimensions so yes, it bolts right back on!! As for looking at other T3 type turbos in the salvage yard, no, I have a number of turbo books and they state like the TGP T25, OEM turbos are more purposeful for driveability then max power!!! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 You actually got that wheel in a stock TGP looking housing? I thought it looked alot like the original in that picture. Maybe I just don't know my turbo's enough yet! I can't get anyone to admit to being able to do that. Most of what I've seen is a T3 compressor housing with an adapter backplate to a t25 center with a bigger turbine housing. Definitely different that what you pictured and describe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 If you look at that pic and into the throat of the stock compressor housing, note the large ridge before it reaches the wheel, then look at that ridge that is gone in the upgraded turbo. The T3 Super 60 compressor wheel fits fine long as the housing and end of the center section are machined out. Here is another pic that shows them naked, but it must be considered that the stock TGP compressor wheel at its small size can make around 240 to 260 hp, so the one next to it/upgraded wheel is not vastly larger, but it does move more quantity of air!! The gap between the red arrows is 2 fingers on stock and less than 1.5 fingers modified, but it’s not just that one measured distance, it’s that much added all the way around the wheel/360 degrees (same as with the circumference on larger tires), and the blades are bigger/taller as well. Jeff M http://www.turbograndprix.com/TGPTurbo1.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Stupid question from a TGP n00b, but where would one send his turbo to be gutted and upgraded to a T3/T28 hybrid? Also, would the stock TGP tranny (freshly rebuilt of course) be able to stand up to the beefed up turbo? Also, what would be a good intercooler upgrade? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Well you don't ask for much ;-). It’s being worked on, or you can do some home work and take the plunge, the challenges are worth it in the end! There have been many posts before discussing such topics. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Well you don't ask for much ;-). It’s being worked on, or you can do some home work and take the plunge, the challenges are worth it in the end! There have been many posts before discussing such topics. Jeff M I'm already in it quite deep with the upcoming engine and tranny rebuild...plus finding parts for a car they only made a limited number of 13 years ago I just wanted an expert's opinion on some of this. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I'm already in it quite deep with the upcoming engine and tranny rebuild...plus finding parts for a car they only made a limited number of 13 years ago I just wanted an expert's opinion on some of this. ;-) I understand. For me trying to be on the board at the same time doing by far, many more PM and emails than posts here, I get swamped and try to limit my time to doing shorter answers (sometimes) so I can keep up with all of it. Custom jobs like yours have already been done by others, if you search there are a few that have posted in the past. For me personally, it would be a lot of info to “try†and detail out all the items, the thing is one good question like yours gets a good answer that leads to another good question, and before you know it, a few hours of postings go by. I try to maximize my time by posting for the masses, something everyone can use now or later, and at times I do something fun just to keep me sane. Intercoolers, turbos, radiators have all been covered well before, hate to send you searching but far less wait for info there, and you will get the contacts to those doing the same project as yours. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I understand. For me trying to be on the board at the same time doing by far, many more PM and emails than posts here, I get swamped and try to limit my time to doing shorter answers (sometimes) so I can keep up with all of it. Custom jobs like yours have already been done by others, if you search there are a few that have posted in the past. For me personally, it would be a lot of info to “try†and detail out all the items, the thing is one good question like yours gets a good answer that leads to another good question, and before you know it, a few hours of postings go by. I try to maximize my time by posting for the masses, something everyone can use now or later, and at times I do something fun just to keep me sane. Intercoolers, turbos, radiators have all been covered well before, hate to send you searching but far less wait for info there, and you will get the contacts to those doing the same project as yours. Jeff M Well..since I got an error the first time... I'll try posting this again.. I understand that you're busy and that you've got a lot of people bugging you. And actually, I have most of it figured out. As I understand it, the T3 hybrid is a gutted T25 that has been milled and filled with mostly T-3 parts..correct? I know of a turbo company here in WI that can perform a task like that for almost 2/3 of the $1,000 price tags that I've seen so far..so that's not a problem. And I have no doubt that the 3.1 engine will handle the 350hp that this turbo can supposedly support, but I have doubts on the transmission. My dad however doesn't, and he was a mechanic for 17 years. He worked on a lot of the Chrysler Turbo cars. So I'll have to agree with him for now. The only question that I still can't answer is the intercooler one. I searchd, but all I found was threads about modding the stock intercooler...and a few crazy ideas about using GN coolers. I looked at some intercoolers, but I was having a hard time finding one that would bolt on (at least somewhat) where the current stock one is, and actually be an improvement. I just thought that you (or somebody) may know of a model, or company off-hand where I could find something like that. Like I said, all I found was threads about modding a stock cooler..maybe I'm not searching hard enough. Anyway..thanks again..sorry to bother you. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Well..since I got an error the first time... I'll try posting this again.. I understand that you're busy and that you've got a lot of people bugging you. And actually, I have most of it figured out. As I understand it, the T3 hybrid is a gutted T25 that has been milled and filled with mostly T-3 parts..correct? Correct, sounds like from below your local shop understands this since they gave you a quote??? I know of a turbo company here in WI that can perform a task like that for almost 2/3 of the $1,000 price tags that I've seen so far..so that's not a problem. The cost I quoted was “around†a grand, thing is that rebuild I quoted adds some features/parts that only Turbonetics makes/sells which are more money. As for the upgrade; milling, new compressor wheel, new turbine wheel/shaft are part of it for sure but there was some different bearing housing needed to run the bigger wheels in this center section. Then all of $25 to get it polished though there was still a lot of grains left un polished that I had to detail after I received it. And I have no doubt that the 3.1 engine will handle the 350hp that this turbo can supposedly support, but I have doubts on the transmission. Yes, 350 no problem, years ago Pro Racers were running these blocks up to 8,500 rpms running 13.5:1 compression ratio making 350 hp for races such as Cart. That version had a carb and a big cam so the reason to run such higher rpms, we on the other hand use the torque the engine has with a turbo to add the hp balance, nice setup really!! My dad however doesn't, and he was a mechanic for 17 years. He worked on a lot of the Chrysler Turbo cars. So I'll have to agree with him for now. I know the owner of one of the Pace Car TGPs, he has had a custom performance chip since it was new/1990, and now has 160K miles and only today told me 3rd great was starting to act up, that is the longest anyone has run with a performance chip, that was more good news to me for our trannies. Indeed more can be added to increase it's torque handling, more clutches and valve body/accumulator tweaks etc, this one will give your dad some fits as it does not respond as expected from the usual tweaks, takes some work to get every gear to let go and engage the way you want and each the same way. The only question that I still can't answer is the intercooler one. I searchd, but all I found was threads about modding the stock intercooler...and a few crazy ideas about using GN coolers. I looked at some intercoolers, but I was having a hard time finding one that would bolt on (at least somewhat) where the current stock one is, and actually be an improvement. I just thought that you (or somebody) may know of a model, or company off-hand where I could find something like that. Like I said, all I found was threads about modding a stock cooler..maybe I'm not searching hard enough. As for the intercooler, stock is the easiest to get into place, but if running a bigger turbo and spending some money on more performance, worth looking for an upgrade. With the mod to the condenser coil the same location can be used but instead of the stock intercooler, a new custom could be made that is nearly the same width and height as stock but is twice as thick, core number 2-210 flows enough for 450 hp, 670 cfm and only a pressure drop of .75 psi at 550 cfm, nice piece but needs some custom end tanks to allow plumbing it in, something I plan to test later this year, unless someone beats me to it!!! Anyway..thanks again..sorry to bother you. Been faily easy to answer so far, not too long to reply :shock: , and you seem easy to deal with and can walk on your own pretty well, that helps. So, good luck, all I every ask of people is that once they become knowlageble here, that they come back and help other new/learners, instead of us old guys doing it for everyone that comes 8) Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 So, good luck, all I every ask of people is that once they become knowlageble here, that they come back and help other new/learners, instead of us old guys doing it for everyone that comes 8) Jeff M Yes, the turbo shop understands. They've been rebuilding turbos for quite a while now. They rebuild the turbo in my friend's shelby Daytonna, and boy did that thing haul afterwards. Also, thanks for answering my quetsions. I don't plan on going anywhere. I'm new to TGPs, but not to W-Bodies, I've owned 4 so far in the 4 years I've had my license, so I try to help with any problems that I can. I hope to become knowledgeable in the TGP realm as well, so I can also contribute there. :) Thanks again! Jason BTW, you'll probably be hearing from me before the year is over. I'll be wanting to order a chip and a x-over pipe :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Yes, the turbo shop understands. They've been rebuilding turbos for quite a while now. They rebuild the turbo in my friend's shelby Daytonna, and boy did that thing haul afterwards. Ahhh, I was hoping you caught more of what I was saying there, I tried to do it delicately but will have to be more direct now . You asked me if it was “Correct†if the TGP turbo could be made into 350 hp, but you must of also asked your shop the same hp rating question since they gave you a quote!! I was kinda wondering why you wanted to ask me again (not being snippy here!), I mean they must of agreed with that quote that they could do the hp you wanted, or maybe they “say†they can based on, not sure what. This is NOT to disrespect your shop, or your abilities, it just got me looking out for you when you asked even after talking to your turbo shop, does that make sense now? As for pipe, any time you are ready, really I would not wait too long if you are going to run the engine, I have mentioned this before but will try to keep it short. Running with an OEM pipe and its cracks will make your o2 sensor see a lean fuel mixture, which your computer responds by (over) richening the fuel mixture. Not only can this take out an o2 sensor, but like FatGuy just posted here about, it can foul and plug your cat dead! Worse is the rich fuel running all the time, that rich fuel mixture in your combustion chamber mixes with the lubricating oil there on the cylinder walls, that oil is supposed to be there to lubricate the rings and piston skirt, but now is being diluted (gas is a solvent for oil). Then this contaminated oil gets mixed in with the rest reducing the entire oil supply’s ability to lube your engine safely. Just a word of caution for you. If this project car is not going to be run for a while as you get all the work done that is another reason you could wait and I understand, or just your decision. By the end of the year I will have had the larger injector chip upgrad out on a few TGPs so there will be the same positive feedback TopGun chip owners have given me (some of those are listed on the chip page at my web site). And before then I will have tested this larger injectors with turbo and/or intercooler upgrades. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Burning Rom Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Ahhh, I was hoping you caught more of what I was saying there, I tried to do it delicately but will have to be more direct now . You asked me if it was “Correct†if the TGP turbo could be made into 350 hp, but you must of also asked your shop the same hp rating question since they gave you a quote!! I was kinda wondering why you wanted to ask me again (not being snippy here!), I mean they must of agreed with that quote that they could do the hp you wanted, or maybe they “say†they can based on, not sure what. This is NOT to disrespect your shop, or your abilities, it just got me looking out for you when you asked even after talking to your turbo shop, does that make sense now? Jeff M Yeah, I asked them about HP rating, and they said it COULD be done. That's just what the guy I talked to said though. I'm not sure where I'd have it rebuilt anyway, I was just getting prices. In the end, I may go with sending it somewhere else..that won't be until after the engine and tranny rebuild anyway. Thanks for looking out for me though. I'm just trying to get everything figured out so I know about how much $$$ I will need to complete this project the right way. On the X-over pipe issue, the car won't be run MUCH while it's being rebuilt. Just in and out of the garage..and on a few runs down to the corner and back (since it has no plates or insurance). I planned on taking off the cat. anyway and just putting a straight pipe in it's place for now. Eventually, the car will recieve a 2.5 inch stainless system that will run straight back to 2 FloPro twister mufflers (for that deep V8 sound ). As far as the chip, I read about them before at your site. But if you have something up your sleeve yet..I'll just wait It won't be street ready for quite some time anyway. Thank you for your time! Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted March 7, 2003 Report Share Posted March 7, 2003 I know of a turbo company here in WI that can perform a task like that for almost 2/3 of the $1,000 price tags that I've seen so far..so that's not a problem. Man do I feel like a boob. Here I am calling myself a turbo gp guy, yet I had never heard of milling the stock housings and using the larger wheels. I've even asked several credible shops about doing such a thing, guess I just asked the wrong people, or asking the wrong question? Like I mentioned before, the closest thing I found in the 3 or 4 years of asking was stuff for Nissan cars that could be used, but they used a T3 housing. Glad to hear this great talk, keep it up! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Powered Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 jeff, where did you go to get yours done? If you look at that pic and into the throat of the stock compressor housing, note the large ridge before it reaches the wheel, then look at that ridge that is gone in the upgraded turbo. The T3 Super 60 compressor wheel fits fine long as the housing and end of the center section are machined out. Here is another pic that shows them naked, but it must be considered that the stock TGP compressor wheel at its small size can make around 240 to 260 hp, so the one next to it/upgraded wheel is not vastly larger, but it does move more quantity of air!! The gap between the red arrows is 2 fingers on stock and less than 1.5 fingers modified, but it’s not just that one measured distance, it’s that much added all the way around the wheel/360 degrees (same as with the circumference on larger tires), and the blades are bigger/taller as well. Jeff M http://www.turbograndprix.com/TGPTurbo1.jpg this is EXACTLY what I want to do.... was that turbonetics that did yours???? edit; sorry for bringing this old thread up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 jeff, where did you go to get yours done? If you look at that pic and into the throat of the stock compressor housing, note the large ridge before it reaches the wheel, then look at that ridge that is gone in the upgraded turbo. The T3 Super 60 compressor wheel fits fine long as the housing and end of the center section are machined out. Here is another pic that shows them naked, but it must be considered that the stock TGP compressor wheel at its small size can make around 240 to 260 hp, so the one next to it/upgraded wheel is not vastly larger, but it does move more quantity of air!! The gap between the red arrows is 2 fingers on stock and less than 1.5 fingers modified, but it’s not just that one measured distance, it’s that much added all the way around the wheel/360 degrees (same as with the circumference on larger tires), and the blades are bigger/taller as well. Jeff M http://www.turbograndprix.com/TGPTurbo1.jpg this is EXACTLY what I want to do.... was that turbonetics that did yours???? Just because I have been gone for a while, you are not going to make me start from 2003 to catch up . 4 years ago, upgrade options were not that diverse, hell Garrett was just starting out their Ballistic Series, that went into their GT series later, then bought by Moneywell (Honeywell) when things really exploded, and that is just one supplier! Since I am really not ready to come back full steam (or even close to that), and since we have plenty of seasoned and talented members here to answer the same questions will just say there are many more options for a nice turbo upgrade than the approach I took back then, and a few owners that have it all detailed out for fitment too . Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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