And the saga continues....... (warning: LONG!)

[RareGMFan]

Well....a few months back, I found out the hard way that the plates were suspended on the TSTE. I asked the officer for what, and she said something about emissions testing time had expired. I was like WTF? I've never received anything on the TSTE. All the other cars, yes, but never the TSTE. So, I ate the ticket (because apparently, it doesn't matter if the government screws up, just the little guys), and then pondered what to do. I was afraid the cracked crossover wouldn't allow it to pass.

 

I figured I'd try taking the TSTE in to emissions as is, since it was already suspended and I had nothing to loose. So, I get it in one Saturday right before they close. Warmed it up for 20 minutes, took a 5 minute drive down there, and took another 5 minutes or so by the time I waited in line, they did the gas cap test, and got it up on the rollers. Test gets underway, and I begin cringing (I hate watching the dyno meter test; something about doing 60 mph while the car is stationary for a few minutes doesn't sit well with me). After about a minute, the driver starts shaking his head, getting off the gas, getting back on it, and shaking his head again. Another minute goes by, and I see bellows of smoke come pouring out the hood vents, and then from under the car. Another moment or two later, a rush of coolant starts spilling from near the radiator on to the ground. Naturally, I was screaming my head off and cursing ( I was in the booth they make you wait in). I ran outside the booth, and the guy told me to get back in. I was going nuts. The guy waiting in the booth with me while his car got tested in the next bay over, thought I was going to kill someone. My sister was there, too, because she drove the AWD STE behind me, which was also due for emissions. That one had to do the old fashioned test of just getting a reading from the exhaust pipe at idle, due to it being AWD, and it passed with flying colors. Anyway, so they pulled the car out of the testing area, and outside. A minute later, I guess it was the supervisor that came in the booth, and told me to follow him. I ran outside, where the hood of the car was open, and coolant was dripping off of it. He pointed at a flush t-valve (on the passenger side hose, near the radiator) which LITERALLY had a chunk of it missing. The cap was still there, the ends were on either side of it still attached to the hoses, but a large hole was present in the valve. He gave me the standard "yeah, that's all that happened. Just replace that part, and add some coolant in it, and it will be fine". I wasn't really paying much attention to him at this point, and his pathetic advice. He preceeded to fill out some paperwork. I'm looking around the car, going nuts, a million things running through my mind about what they just did, and cursing up a storm. Then I noticed something fall to the ground out of the corner of my eye by the rear passenger side wheel. I walked over to it, and found it was the piece of paper he filled out. He was trying to avoid me, I guess, so he set it on the trunk and walked away while I was under the hood and couldn't notice him leaving. The sheet just marked reasons why the test couldn't be completed, which consited of "car is leaking more then a few drops of fluid", and "car overheating". I walked back into the testing area and said this wasn't finished yet, and he gave me the good old "it's not? What more could you possibly want?" playing dumb look. He walked back out with me, and I asked for his name, and the name of the guy testing the car. He gave me a "what could you possibly need THAT for" look. I told him I'm not worried about a $ .20 plastic part, I'm worried about possibly blowing the headgasket, or warping the heads, or any other damage the overheating could have done. Both he, and another guy that came out with him immediately gave me a defiant "noooo, noooo, that wouldn't have happened. We pulled the car out immediately" statement. I was like what???? You OVERHEATED the car! It doesn't matter HOW quick you pulled it out. The act of overheating the car has itself already put the motor in danger of being damaged. They kept denying that would be an issue, and told me the test wouldn't have caused the overheating, anyway. Standard company lines. I asked him what his automotive credentials were, which rendered him silent. At this point, I figured I wasn't going to get anywhere with them, and I let them leave. I decided I'd just address the EPA directly about it after I investigate any other issues the car might have. They said it would be ok to leave the car there, though, till I fix it, or tow it, whatever.

 

There is a NAPA literally across the street from the testing facilities, so I took off the remains of the flush valve, and matched it up with a replacement for it. My home is about 5 minutes away, so I ran back to my place, and got some antifreeze from the trunk of one of the other cars. Came back, put the new valve in, topped off the really low coolant, and started her up. It only took a few seconds for the needle to rise back up to overheating range. Even before that, the coolant didn't go down, but rather started bubbling at the top of the radiator. I'm thinking "christ, this is not good". I shut her down, and left it for a while. This testing facility is in an industrial area, and there are quite a few mechanics just around the corner from it. I decided I'd let her really cool down, and come back to take it to the same guy that did the fuel pump on the TGP. Well, when I did, the car went right back to nearly overheating within a matter of athe minute or 2 it took me to get it into a parking space at the mechanics. It was also missing pretty badly, and idling horribly. The next day (Sunday), I changed the thermostat, just for the hell of it, even though it was only a few months old. I topped off the coolant again because it had managed to go down in spite of topping it off the day before (another bad sign), and started it back up. It seemed to do a LITTLE better in the overheating department. It would go up quickly, then suddenly drop over and over again. So I certainly wasn't happy or satisfied with the outcome. I wasn't sure what was going to happen with the EPA about this, and I couldn't leave it sitting in the mechanics parking lot for a week or two. So I decided to slowly drive it 5 minutes home. It made it their ok, doing the rising temp, and quickly falling thing the whole way there. It's been sitting like that ever since.

 

I have since discovered from one of the undercover cops who's a customer at the store I manage that they should have provided me with a complaint form. :shock: So I went back last week. The same supervisor was in the office. I said "yeah, someone told me you guys have complaint forms?" He said is there a problem? No, retard. I was just asking to confirm this rumor!.......ok, I didn't actually say that. I told him what happened a few weeks ego, and he said "so? It overheated." At this point, I gave him a "don't make me jump this counter and kill you" look. I told him the car had no problems prior to the test, and he again gave me the standard "the test wouldn't cause the car to overheat" line. I said "I can find quite a few mechanics who would disagree with you on that, so why don't we leave that up to the attornees and judge to decide"? He didn't say a word after that. I filled out the report in vivid detail, and the guy told me someone will contact me in 10 days about it. So....the wait began.

 

My god, I just can't catch a break with these cars. My biggest concern right now is that the sticker is expired on the TSTE's plates, and I can't purchase a new one because the plates are suspended. I don't plan on driving it, but the management in my apartment complex will tow it away if the plate isn't current. They don't want cars being "stored" there. And now, the TGP is up for the same fate. The plates are due to be suspended tomorrow. I've been putting some heavy mileage on the AWD STE due to all this. It's damn near 95K miles, now, which I really didn't want it to reach any time soon, since it was low mileage for the year. I may just have to give all of them up soon, and just get a mint Grand Am GT or something for now. Save up the pennies for a house, and then buy really nice condition versions of the cars I want when I have the change for it. My current work hours and living situation (in an apartment complex) doesn't really allow for restoration projects. And considering all but maybe one of my cars are restoration projects, I have no real, easy maintenance daily driver. I don't know.....I guess I'll wait and see what happens with the TSTE situation.

[jeremy]

that suck donkey dick. I was getting mad just reading the story.

[TGPilot]

It sucks I agree...what I do not agree with is the fact that a faulty part caused the coolant to blow out and overheat the car and you are going after the testing facility. Most likely if you had been driving down the road you would not have seen this till you slowed to a stop or near to it to see the steam.

 

Do a quick compression test on the cylinders or even a radiator pressure test to see if you have bleed down. I doubt it unless they ran it on there for 5-8 minutes at full temp with no coolant in the system.

 

When you topped off the coolant with a new T in the heater line or after you replaced the T-stat...did you bleed off the air at the thermostat housing? 8)

[digitaloutsider]

I hate mechanics, so fucking much. I wish I didn't even have to take my car to them to get it inspected. Oh god, I hate the concept of lawsuits, but fuck, I'd be half way to filing one right now..

[GP1138]

I honestly don't think they did anything. It sounds to me like it just happened to screw up right there. What could they possibly have done, I've had emissions tests done on my car before, and that's what they do on mine, and it's never been a problem.

 

It does suck, but I wouldn't be aiming so much venom at the testing facility.

[RareGMFan]

It sucks I agree...what I do not agree with is the fact that a faulty part caused the coolant to blow out and overheat the car and you are going after the testing facility. Most likely if you had been driving down the road you would not have seen this till you slowed to a stop or near to it to see the steam.

 

Well, as I said in the original post, there are several factors that lead me to believe this was not an issue of a faulty part. I believe it overheated FIRST, and THEN caused the part to go out for several reasons.

 

First, this car has been my daily driver (in town, and to/from work) for a year, now. I took the tollway to work with it everyday since we moved our store (6 months ago), and I've done as low as the speed limit (or lower, depending on traffic), or as high as.....well.....high. I've never had a problem with the cooling on this car during that time. The ONLY time it hasn't been normal is when the TPS sensor starts acting up, and causes the car to idle way too high at a stop (1,500 or so RPMs). This causes the temp to go up quicker then it should while I'm stopped, but even THEN, unless I'm waiting at the railroad tracks for a freight train for 5 minutes, or something, it doesn't come anywhere near "too warm for comfort". The fan usually does well enough when it kicks on at holding off the rising of the temperature to a very slow creep. However, this also indicates to me how easily things warm up on these cars even at the slightest raise in RPMs. Something to keep in mind when a TGP is sitting stationary for a few minutes at 60 MPH. But when the idle is normal, everything functioned 100% like it should. This car runs, and cools far better then my 6000's (which I've always known to just normally run hotter then most 3.1's)

 

Second, as I said, the car was warmed up for 20 minutes in my parking lot. Idle was good, and temp was right at normal operation. No problems. I drove the thing for 5 minutes to the testing facility. No problems. I got a ticket number, and waited in line for a few minutes at a dead stand still. No problems. I pulled it in, and waited in the car while they checked the gas cap pressure. No problems. I was asked to wait in the booth, and the driver took the car up on the rollers and parked. No problems. They took a minute or so to...."secure" the vehicle (block off the back wheels), and place a dinky little fan in front of the car. No problems. A minute into the test, no problems. I don't see how, if there was a faulty part, all this IMMEDIATELY prior to the test, plus a year's worth of driving in all kinds of temps, conditions, and speeds wouldn't have reflected it.

 

Third, it was only from there on out that the guy started shaking his head. Maybe he saw the temp gauge? I don't know what that was all about, but he kept getting off the gas a bit, then getting back on it again, shaking his head 2 of 3 times in between. After a few moments of that, we saw the smoke start creeping out, and then turn into thicker clouds. And THEN the coolant started spilling, after about 10 seconds or so of the steam spewing out, fast and furious. My sis and I both saw him continue driving when the steam started coming out, too.

 

So.....

 

A. Between all this, I have a hard time believing the valve randomly burst in a freakish case of coincidental timing. I'm almost positive the car getting too warm caused the valve to explode, not the other way around. I realize cars have this test conducted all the time. I've had to do them quite a few times myself, since I've owned nothing but OBDI equipped cars. But I also realize just how hot under the hood the TGPs/TSTEs get. Just opening the hood after a drive.....the heat is enough to melt the skin off you face, something I've never experienced with any of the n/a 3.1's I've owned. And when I wash the engine, the turbo will steam for 10 minutes or so afterwards (you should see the look on people's faces in the cars next to me at lights). I'm not saying that this would happen everytime you tested one of these, but there has to be a very real possibility with the turbo models that the fans can't keep up with the rising temperature caused by doing a stationary 60 MPH. I just don't buy the "mere coincidence" argument when you factor in all the facts.

 

B. Why was the guy shaking his head? If there was something wrong with the car, why didn't you back the hell off, and say the test can't be conducted? Why continue pushing the car? And regardless of ALL of my arguments, it is the state/EPA that makes this test mandatory. Any consequences suffered during that test should be their problem, not mine. If this occurred while I was driving it, it would be my problem. How I handled the temp gauge rising, what I did immediately afterwards, etc would be up to me. But when the test is being conducted, that's not up to me. The car is in THEIR hands, and how they handle the situation bears quite a significance as to what the outcome or damage may be. As I said, the guy shook has head, maybe indication something was wrong. He also kept going while the steam was coming out. When I brought this up to the supervisor, he said that the drivers are usually looking at the screen, so they can't always see the gauges. Think about it. If all this is the case, why should the EPA be able to say "oops, sorry about that, here's your keys. Have a nice day" if the headgasket is blown on my car right now, when THEY'RE the ones forcing this stupid test on people?

 

A large group of incompetent people, testing a very large variety of cars on a daily bases. Nothing good can come of this. And unfortunately for me, I was proven right. So....forgive me if I'm a bit pissed at the EPA that my car was overheated, even IF there's a chance of it being a faulty part.

[LukeZ34]

You just need to bleed the system. There's air trapped in there from the leak, and that's what's causing the temp gauge to go nuts. Get that taken care of and you'll be able to tell if there's any other damage caused by the emissions place.

[RareGMFan]

Bleeding the system just involves turning the bleed screw on the thermostat housing? If so, I did that the first time I filled her up and replaced the valve. I'll try it again since, like I said, I noticed it had lost some coolant when I went to replace the t-stat.

[5speedz34]

Bleeding the system just involves turning the bleed screw on the thermostat housing? If so, I did that the first time I filled her up and replaced the valve. I'll try it again since, like I said, I noticed it had lost some coolant when I went to replace the t-stat.

 

Assuming the TGP's are setup like any other 3.1 there should be 2 bleeder screws. One by the Waterpump area and one on the T-stat housing.

[Bossman429]

I've never had to deal with Emissions testing, but I now hope I never will!

 

One question I have while reading about this Dyno setup.

Do they have a fan in front of the dyno wheels to simulate a moving car? I know that the performance dynos do, but not sure about the ones in your situation.

 

If they don't, that would definitely be a reason that it over heated.

[Jeff M]

..........Another minute goes by, and I see bellows of smoke come pouring out the hood vents, and then from under the car. Another moment or two later, a rush of coolant starts spilling from near the radiator on to the ground........I ran outside the booth, and the guy told me to get back in.....

 

With this I think they were not responsible while dealing with your car!!! If you were driving and seen smoke coming out of your hood, you would stop and try to save the engine, let alone notice before this happened that the "Check Gauges" light was on when the engine is too hot/temp gauge is maxing, and the obvious Water Temp Gauge!!!!!!!!!!!!! So if they cannot be as responsible as you or any typical driver then they are responsible for the problem, and since you tried to tell them and they just yelled at you instead to go back in the booth , welllll!!!, I mean what more could you do!!!!! If you were driving and did not notice the smoke, Check Gauges and high temp on the water temp gauge, then it would be your fault and of course you would be responsible in paying to fix it , so they should pay to fix it. AND, if anyone lent their TGP to a freind, and the friend brought it back fried, would we let them slide so easy, I know I would at least ask why they did not notice the obvious indicators (gauges etc) .

 

I think you could not win talking about the piece that failed and what caused it etc, too iffy to prove this etc, that’s a dead end road I think, the facts above I feel are cut and dry and more apt to get results, even if you have to involve someone who's profession is to review and deal with such cases instead of just our opinions

 

Sorry dude, good luck with getting this nightmare over soon

 

 

Jeff M

[RareGMFan]

David - Yes, they have a dinky little fan (something you'd find in your living room) blowing on the front of the car (too low of a height, IMO). Nothing like the fans you see at dyno-tests, plus they have the hoods open at those. The EPA must have had some overheating problems before, because I don't remember them having fans at all when this style of testing first started.

 

Jeff - I'm not too worried about proving the piece failed due to overheating. I just don't want THEM holding that as an excuse, which is why I was trying to point out why I don't think the piece failing was the initial problem. Also, I didn't rush out to tell them the car was overheating. There is one guy outside of the car, and then the driver inside. When the steam started coming out, no one did anything right away. Then the coolant started rushing out, and the guy outside of the car waved him off and they stopped the test. I ran out of the booth to see what the hell they did, not so much to warn them that it was overheating/something broke. It was too late by then, the guy finally realized it. The guy outside waved for me to get back in the booth (no one but employees are allowed in the testing bay area). They pulled the car outside, threw some clean up material over the spillage, and I waited for a minute till someone called me outside.

 

My case here rests on 2 points:

 

•The car had NO problems with cooling in a year's worth of driving, AND for the 30 minutes IMMEDIATELY prior to the testing, which included idling at a stand still for 20 minutes, driving for 5, and then idling at a stand still again for around another 5. And then, a minute into the test, it overheats just after the driver shook his head a few times, and continues to conduct the test a few seconds after the steaming started.

 

•Even IF there was a faulty part, the government requires the test, and therefore, should be responsible for any subsequent damage the test may cause to a car. If the part failed on MY time, fine. Sucks to be me (though I'm far more attentative to the condition of my car, and it never would have reached the state of overheating). But since I'm FORCED to leave the fate of my car in the government's hands, it only makes sense that anything that happens there after is their problem, plain and simple.

[Guest TurboSedan]

Jeff - I'm not too worried about proving the piece failed due to overheating. I just don't want THEM holding that as an excuse

 

oh they will

 

Then the coolant started rushing out, and the guy outside of the car waved him off and they stopped the test. I ran out of the booth to see what the hell they did, not so much to warn them that it was overheating/something broke. It was too late by then, the guy finally realized it.

 

i don't think you have a leg to stand on unfortunately. weather it broke when they were driving it really doesn't matter. it is not their fault your car broke while they were driving it. i would bet money it would have happened while you were driving it....sooner than later. you simply can't just tell a judge "well the guy testing the car was shaking his head while he was driving/testing it so that proves it is his fault my car broke!" no one is going to buy that.

 

Even IF there was a faulty part, the government requires the test, and therefore, should be responsible for any subsequent damage the test may cause to a car. If the part failed on MY time, fine. Sucks to be me (though I'm far more attentative to the condition of my car, and it never would have reached the state of overheating). But since I'm FORCED to leave the fate of my car in the government's hands, it only makes sense that anything that happens there after is their problem, plain and simple.

 

good luck proving to a judge it is the government's responsibility to fix whatever happens to your car when it is being tested. it won't happen.

 

sorry i sound like the devil's advocate, but it sounds like your car was about to break anyway. it clearly overheated because of the broken coolant flush valve. you already stated it normally runs hot and i'm betting it was bound to break before too long anyway. just because it broke while it wasn't in your hands doesn't mean it is their fault.

[RareGMFan]

sorry i sound like the devil's advocate, but it sounds like your car was about to break anyway. it clearly overheated because of the broken coolant flush valve. you already stated it normally runs hot and i'm betting it was bound to break before too long anyway. just because it broke while it wasn't in your hands doesn't mean it is their fault.

 

Ummm......I stated the car normally ran hot? I thought I gave a pretty thorough explaination of just the opposite.....

 

I've never had a problem with the cooling on this car during that time. The ONLY time it hasn't been normal is when the TPS sensor starts acting up, and causes the car to idle way too high at a stop (1,500 or so RPMs). This causes the temp to go up quicker then it should while I'm stopped, but even THEN, unless I'm waiting at the railroad tracks for a freight train for 5 minutes, or something, it doesn't come anywhere near "too warm for comfort". The fan usually does well enough when it kicks on at holding off the rising of the temperature to a very slow creep. However, this also indicates to me how easily things warm up on these cars even at the slightest raise in RPMs. Something to keep in mind when a TGP is sitting stationary for a few minutes at 60 MPH. But when the idle is normal, everything functioned 100% like it should.

 

Any mentions I made to heat were comparisons of how much hotter things get under the hood of a turbo 3.1 vs. a n/a, not because it wasn't running or cooling right, but because that's just the way the turbos are. My point was that due to this, maybe running a TGP at 60 mph standing still isn't a very good idea. The temp gauge never showed it running anywhere remotely NEAR too hot.

 

I understand that everything you've stated will all be attacks they're going to use. Again, if it DID happen to me while I was driving it, how I handled it/what I did when the gauge was moving up, or afterwards would be my problem. But why should the government not be held responsible for how they handled the situation for a test I have no choice in taking (a test, mind you, that's not even required for 90% of the rest of the state, only the greater Chicagoland area, and St. Louis)? If they decide to continue driving the car while it's overheating, they shouldn't be held responsible for that?? For example, as I stated earlier, when I inquired about why he didn't stop when it overheated, the supervisor admitted that the driver's can't see the gauges because they're watching a screen outside of the car instructing them on how to conduct the test, showing readings, etc. So if the gauge had been pinned in the red for half a minute, he would have never known about it. And as I said, even after smoke started coming out, he still was conducting the test. As for the faulty part, I'm 99% positive the tests are taped, so it should clearly show the steaming occuring well before the coolant finally started to leak. Plus, the flush valve was more then likely the newest part related to the cooling system (pretty sure it's the only non-15 year old part), and would only make sense it would be the least likely part to go.

 

If nothing else, are you telling me you don't feel they should be responsible for how they handled the sequence of events leading up to, and following the actual overheating? I mean, if we go by your defense of the EPA, they can basically be as careless as they want with people's cars, and then then fall back on the excuse that it wasn't their fault, whatever goes wrong would have happened anyway sooner or later.

 

Think about it. These are the same people who put a Cadillac through a wall when this test first started because the morons didn't realize it was RWD, and put the front wheels on the rollers (story was in the paper). They either need more competent people, or need to go back to the way the test used to be, where all they did was get a reading from the tailpipe at idle.

[Jeff M]

Any mentions I made to heat were comparisons of how much hotter things get under the hood of a turbo 3.1 vs. a n/a, not because it wasn't running or cooling right, but because that's just the way the turbos are. My point was that due to this, maybe running a TGP at 60 mph standing still isn't a very good idea. The temp gauge never showed it running anywhere remotely NEAR too hot.

 

 

I really like this approach Sorry I did not get all the details right the first time I read it . And just to mention, its not that I don't think you know what to do, what I offer is just my opinion, take any part that helps, toss out the rest, don't even feel you need to correct the parts I got wrong or such, won't bother me .

 

So a car running at 60 mph and doing accelerations too?!?!?...if they were accelerating it too that adds a lot of heat and some mini-fan is not going to be enough help keeping an engine cool!!! The plastic part may have failed on you later but like you said, you would have noticed the signs and stopped the car/engine, and taken responsibility for the fix, but if they were causing more heat than is normal with a lack of proper air movement then when the engine got over-hot we all know the radiator pressure was also getting up there too and could have caused the plastic part to fail, though that part should have been tested by that manufacturer to handle anything that would have been thrown at it/up to 16 or so psi since that is what most radiator caps relieve at.

 

So just some more ideas and opinions, I do think these will help hone down the final approach you might take, so maybe dealing later with those involved in this situation will have less holes to poke into you case , glad you can handle us testing things for you here first 8)

 

Jeff M

[Garrett Powered]

I had one of those plastic prestone things too and it failed the same way. glad it wasnt when the retard mechanics had my car.

Maybe it should be the manufacturer of the flush valve that gets sued.

They should be brass anyway, but they dont care about anything but big profits.

[Prospeeder]

that does suck, i hope they fix your car, thats crap they let it overheat, the extreme heat would have made that part fail and break, it was overheating be4 the coolant spill, so that part couldnt have caused it

[Jeff M]

I had one of those plastic prestone things too and it failed the same way. glad it wasnt when the retard mechanics had my car.

Maybe it should be the manufacturer of the flush valve that gets sued.

They should be brass anyway, but they dont care about anything but big profits.

 

:shock: Well, more info is disclosed I think Prestone (the main ones I see make these flush kits) would have more money and concern about a law suite than some government, maybe that's an option too 8). Sorry to steal a little room from this thread, but this might help others thinking about overheating and radiator care, I don't like seeing one of these, it says to me someone used tap water in their radiator minerals from tap water are the main shit that plug radiators :!:

 

Jeff M

[RareGMFan]

Between me, my family and friends, I've known quite a few cars that have had those valves (usually not flush ones, though). They've all been for the same purpose: To continue the connection when you cut out the bad part of the hose on one of those hoses that turns into a metal line that you can't replace. I've never known one to fail till now. Sure it's a possibility, but I've never personally heard of it happening on any of the aforementione vehicles.

 

I'll wait for the call from the EPA, see what they say, and go from there. In the meantime, I'm going to do a more thorough job of bleeding the system so I can rule that out as a possibility if it still acts up. I don't have my hopes up too much because of the way it's idling and missing now. Plugs, wires, all 3 coils, and ICM are all brand new, and all Delco on that car, so I don't know why it's doing that, now.

[TurboGTU]

Check your plugs out for coolant. Pressure check your cylinders for Burnt exhaust valves or wraped heads leaking air into the cooling system.

 

Check for bad Coolant temp sensors and bad Manifold air temp sensor.

[LukeZ34]

Check your compression if you have the tool to do so. That right there will tell you if there is any serious damage done.

The flush valves are cheap. The one on Jess's TGP has a slow drip to it. I'm sure they get brittle after time with the heating up and cooling off that they are subjected to.

 

I'll be real surprised if you get anywhere with the EPA. We don't have emissions checks here, so I don't have any true experience w/ these places. But I'm sure your gonna have to fight this one like hell to get anything good to come out of it.. unfortunatly. =( Good luck.

[RareGMFan]

I'm sure I will, as well. But I'm ready for a fight As for all the testing, I have no time, place, or tools for any of that. Otherwise, I would have been a lot further along with these cars (restoring them, that is). The apartment managements around here will kick your ass out in a heartbeat if you so much as check your oil, let alone start pulling plugs and sensors, and such.

[TurboGTU]

Im sure he would recon$$ider about you working on your car .

 

If not...forget them..move out of that hell hole. I woun'd not live in a "retirement" village. Thats what they are. Even Condomenioums are hell holes. You can't do anything buy take a bath, eat, sleep and a Shit if they let you.

[Jeff M]

Well then let’s go from here before you say anymore to the culprits!! The more you are prepared the better your chances, and you sound like you need to be tough with these guys!!

 

First you need to prove the lame cooling fan the emission shop used on this dyno was undersized, find out the manufacturer for the dyno and call them saying you need to know how much CFM is recommended when running on their dyno (many tuner shops have dynos, maybe you are going to visit one!!). Do a search on the net for the dyno manufacturer’s phone number, better yet get it in an email that you can print out/hard copy for your paper work!!!! Also search a few more dyno manufacturers and ask the same questions, how much CFM of air is required when running a car loaded up to 60 mph! With that you now have what it takes to prove fan was undersized!

 

Now on your car, a couple of easy checks/without tools are as follows. Since when a head is warped from overheating there should be exhaust leaking out and/or water leaking in, so check for each of these. One is to unscrew the oil fill cap, look inside the oil fill cap, if its gooey brown/white in there then yes, coolant is getting into the oil from the head not sealing any more/warped from overheating. Next is exhaust leaking/blowing into the coolant, and causing the air bubbles/random overheating condition you state, one trick is to pop off the radiator cap and run the engine, there will be some bubbling at the fill neck hole but it should stop after it burps, if it continues to bubble then good chance exhaust is leaking into the coolant side from a warped head. Put the radiator cap back on as the engine warms, since the exhaust pressure leaking into the coolant is more than the 15 psi the cap is rated to hold then there should be radiator fluid being blown (with exhaust bubbles) into the radiator overflow tank, you should be able to hear the bubbles blowing/bubbling sound through the radiator cap, and if you pull off the radiator overflow cap you should be able to hear the exhaust percolating into it. Last is to smell the exhaust, if it smells icky sweet, then that is coolant burning in the engine as it leaks into the combustion chamber.

 

Jeff M

[Jeff M]

Maybe in the email to the dyno manufacturers you use something like this:

 

I am looking to take my 1990 Turbo Grand Prix to a shop for a dyno test, they have your dyno setup there and I wanted to know a quick few things before I went. How much and how important is it to have a auxiliary cooling fan while running and making pulls on the dyno like up to 60 mph. I don’t want to loose hp from getting to warm, or maybe overheat the engine? I assume CFM is the rating you would use to suggest the proper cooling fan so if you can let me know what CFM is best I would appreciate your suggestions.

 

Thanks!

 

With this you can now prove that a certain level of CFM air flow is necessary when running a car on the dyno. The CFM for the cooling fan your emission station used can be found by getting the model number of their unit and checking it with the manufacturer, this is a VERY common stated rating on fans!!!! I would rather know before going to do battle with them, but your points as stated in hard copy emails from the dyno manufacturers will prove what is needed and if you are unable to get their cooling fan model number/CFM rating, you can also request the emission station to provide the rating of their cooling fan to prove they used the proper cooling unit, or not!!!

 

That proves that fact, next is to prove your engine is dead, going to again need someone else to make that statement :!: , take it to a shop for a diagnostics, they can tell you the heads are warped and the estimated cost to fix it in writing!...this is your next hard copy of evidence, you will need this as this is proof the engine is dead and how much it is going to cost to have them fix the problem they caused! Make sure it includes taking off both heads, having them pressure tested to insure they are not cracked now (damn near required by any maching shop working on your heads!!!), cleaned, milled flat, then all the gaskets, fluids etc to put it all back together!

 

Jeff M