new opportunity

[streetdreams]

today I met a tech at work who plays around with 3.1's. first he came over and started talkin to me about my car. seemed like he was interested in buyin it because he has a crazy motor he needs a home for. when this guy explained his lil 'hobby' to me I was WOAH are you serious? man you do this just for kicks? he collects scrap from the dealer,friends,j-yards (blocks,heads,etc) and than will say take a 3.1 strip it down,bore it 120. over, rebuild it, throw on 3400 heads and all that you have to do with that. and than throw it in a car with a 5 speed and sell them or what have you. I was on his everyword because I havent met anyone in real life who plays around with them much other than bolt ons, he told me he knows the guy at warrior engines very well and theyre very cheap if you do the labour yourself. I told him I wanted to do somthin like what he's onto but right now I dont have the money. I was like "I'd love to have a old 3.1 just to break down rebuild and all just for somthin to learn" and he was like "hell I got 4 in my shed right now, hell you can have one since I didnt pay for any of'em, if you wanna learn. come by one day I'm always messin around in the backyard" he went on to tell me that the 3500 in the G6 is just a 3400 bored out and that, that is the same engine as the 3.9 in the GTP but more bored. he said he wants to learn alot about this 3.9 because theres alot of toys for them like superchargers and stuff comin out. I think I can learn from this guy, opportunity dosent knock very often around here. oh yeah I mentioned if I rebuild an engine for my GP I wanna go 5 speed and he told me his buddy just gave him a smacked up 90 Z24 with 5 speed and I can have it if I really do rebuild a motor, he said it wouldnt even take a day!

[Bossman429]

he went on to tell me that the 3500 in the G6 is just a 3400 bored out and that, that is the same engine as the 3.9 in the GTP but more bored. he said he wants to learn alot about this 3.9 because theres alot of toys for them like superchargers and stuff comin out.

I think the 3.5 is a 60* V6 derived from the 3400

Whereas the 3.9 is a 90* V6 derived from the 3.8 L67/L32

I don't believe there is much similar about them.

 

But hey, I could be wrong.

[manitcor]

actually, the 3500 and 3900 are quite different from the 3100 and 3400.

 

Both the 3500 and 3900 are 60* v6 engines and are based off the 3rd Gen 60v6 SFI desgins however the block molds are different and the blocks are physically larger. There are also crank differences that change the engine internals (I would have to pull up my convos Ive had with a couple GM techs to give more detail).

 

The 3900 block is similar to the 3500 block but is larger and has addational support for the VVT that is in the engine. Which in this current desgin isint so much like VVT that you see in overhead cam cars and is more like extreme cam phasing (an addational 13* IIRC).

 

Later versions of the 3900 are supposedly going to also support displacement on demand and updated versions of VVT (Im hoping for dual cam pushrods ;-)) according to GM white papers however this may or may not see actual production.

 

Your biggest challenges with these new engines is going to be tuning. Almost every 06 GM car and truck will be converting from the standard ClassII ODBII data system to a system called GM Lan which is loosly based on the IEEE token ring specification (a networking spec used before ethernet on computers). There will be adapters so that tools like the techII will be able to read codes and reset errors etc but actuall programming will most likely require more than just an adapter. This creates an issue when going to things like forced induction unless it is a mild amount of boost since you will need to be able to control your fuel trim as well as how VVT works based on whats going on at a certain RPM range. Also the addation of VVT makes products like CAMs a bit more intresting from a programmind standponit because with any thing more radical than a mild re-grind and you will prob need to re-tune the fuel as well as the VVT timing systems. (Of course there is alwas the option of custom programming a Haltec unit or something similar)

 

There are a lot of challenges to be faced with the new generation of engines coming out but a lot of poetential too. I think youll start seeing mods coming out between 8-12 months after the engines hit the streets by places that have the money to buy these engines brand new and tear into the with all they have.

 

As far as using parts from these newer engines on the older 3100s and 3400s. Some of us have already toyed with putting 3500 plenums, lower intakes and heads on the 3400. Its a remote possibility and from the looks of things it wont really work with out modifcation to either the 3400 block or the heads and intakes. If its possible im sure it will be figured out though. As for the bottom ends there wont be a whole lot that is compatible. Based on specs and pics of the blocks found in SI it looks like the 3500 can be bored to 3.7 or 3.8 while the 3.9 looks like it may be able to goto 4.1 or 4.2L.

[streetdreams]

when I said "the 3500 in the G6 is just a 3400 bored out and that, that is the same engine as the 3.9 in the GTP but more bored. he said he wants to learn alot about this 3.9 because theres alot of toys for them like superchargers and stuff comin out" maybe I should have been more clear. if you learn how to assemble a 60degree v6 than you will be very familiar with these new engines and theyre workings and that will be a definite skill in the future.. he expressed interest in these new 3500's and 3.9's because he see's alot of potential in the near future as you just stated. he hybrids motors ie matching heads to blocks and punching out the blocks. he mentioned that swapping cams and cranks is a real bitch and not worth it. he did mention that you have to 'modify' the heads and such for a seamless match but it isnt hard at all once you've done 1.and he could run figures off the top of his head like it was basic math instead of intricate details on an engine. when I asked him how much 120. over was he said 1/8th on the 3.1, when I asked about the 3.9 and how overbored that was he told me what you just said. that it is a much thicker block. but if you wondered its a 1/4 inch bigger than the 3.1.this guy is 50 years old with 20years experience. if he told me somthing I wouldnt second guess it, especially considering the internal engine warranty work he does 10 hours a day everyday.

[manitcor]

i wasnt kocking ya man, just figued you would like the info

[streetdreams]

oh my bad

today he helped me put in some new plugs, finally!! I had been waitin a while to do this and today I got paid 75 bucks more than expected so I cashed in on some new delco's.

one of my plug wires snapped off the connector and he had a few extra laying around so he gave me one and showed me how to feed it thru the loom. my engine mounts are in horrible shape and when I took them apart to get at the firewall side, one split into two and spit out the center shaft! I thought I was fkd for a ride home. he told me just force it in there and tomorrow I'l bring you to decent dogbones from home so that was cool. man 2 of those plugs didnt wanna come out!! he looked worried when I said that and said penetrate them and let them sit for an hour so I did and they came right out.I never knew doin plugs could be such a pain in the ass! oh yeah he looked at my MAF like :shock: "that could be a large part of problem right there" he then went on to explain how it works and what happens if dirt and leaves get stuck in the honeycomb etc. I thought it was like a 'last chance' screen to stop dirt from gettin in the engine! lmao anyways in the end she's runnin real good

sounds better, has more pick up and goes!