tranny update..

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Went to Mister Transmission today for my free checkup.

 

The guy looked at the fluid (burnt, duh..)

Used this laser looking thing and pointed it at the transmission... EDIT: 250*F (I think, cause celcious would probably melt the insides) and that's just on the outside of the case! It's running fucking hot :!:

(check this chart http://www.txchange.com/heatchrt.htm )

 

 

We went for a road test and basically he saw how it shifts real hard from 1st to 2nd and asked me some questions, but the rest of the time it runs good..

 

So I gotta go back Mon or Tues when I have time to leave the car there cause they need it COOL to hook up the scanning tools and whatever to do further diagnosis. He's thinking it's hydrolic but said it could be "101" things.

[1990lumina]

So is it suppose to be running that hot, Or is it running to hot?

[1990lumina]

Okay, so I looked on that link, and I guess it shouldn't be running that hot.

 

Pointless posts I guess lol

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Yeah

 

I'm bringing it in tomorrow morning cause they need it for half the day to do a full test on it. They said it should be done by noon. I hope it's repairable inside the vehicle, and under $500. :|

 

I will keep you posted!

 

Here's that chart again. My tranny is running 250*+

 

 

 

Hopefully I'm able to get it fixed for a decent price, after I'll put something like this in my car...

[DaveFromColorado]

when he was taking the tempature of the Transmission, was he taking it from the top of the car (near the exhaust crossover) or was he sampling from under the car on the pan, or on the sidecover..

 

if it was from the top of the trans, the exhaust crossover can "fool" the results as that's a LOT of heat buiding up right there.

 

One of the biggest causes of trans overheating problems is the cooler gets plugged a little and won't flow the fluid as efficently -

 

--Dave.

[jeremy]

did you find anything out today?

 

hopefully good news....

[19Cutlass94]

I hope you get good news/ good updates with your tranny....

 

after seeing that, it kinda makes me see what mines running at, and possibly adding some guages

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Well, my tranny is slipping.

 

The way he explained it, is that it's giving a code 1870 (IIRC) which means the tranny is slipping, and therefore the computer tells it to give it max pressure (causing the hard shifts). So HE says it needs the tranny needs to be removed from the car to be worked on due to it being an internal problem.. and that the cost of labor for removing/reinstalling the tranny is $275 PLUS the actual cost of repairs (parts/labor). He really woun't tell me anything about how much it COULD cost, it seemed like a money grabbing scheme to have him pull my tranny out for $275 before I even know how much I'm gonna pay.. :?:

 

Now I phoned up another tranny shop in town (Elgin Transmission) and the guy seemed to know right away.. "yeah common problem with those car, it's slipping, gives a code 1870.. it'll be 500-600 bucks to fix it.." ALSO, the guy on the phone said it's something that can usually be fixed with the trans IN the car. I called up my friend's dad who is the manager at Elgin Tire (and knows everybody in town) and asked him "who should I bring my car in for tranny work?" he said.. "Elgin Transmission.". Cool..

 

 

No I am wondering.. I might just PM DaveFromColorado... since my tranny seems to be slipping (which I didn't think it was, but I guess it makes sence now) I am thinking about putting Type F fluid it and see what happens. When my tranny is cool it doesn't shift hard.. but once the computer realizes it's slipping it must be making it shift harder- but if Type F could help with the slipping maybe that could help my problem :?: Is it okay to mix DexIII with Type F? Like half and half? If this could be a possible solution that would be great... I'd just install a tranny temp guage to monitor the temp and change the fluid when I need to. If this is crap, then I might as well book a time next week and have it properly repaired.

[GP1138]

I'd just get it properly repaired and be done with it.

[Jcrow]

Yes it probably needs new bands and clutches, but when its done get an extra transmission cooler in there!

[DaveFromColorado]

okay.. all 1870 means is "transmission componant slipping" which could mean a LOT of things - usually it means "output speed not within calculated range of input speed based on programmed gear ratio."

 

this problem could be caused by a LOT of different things - USUALLY it'd require a full rebuild because you've lost a lot of clutch material for the computer to want to apply full pressure at all times, and there's got to be a reason it's happened like this, either too much abuse, or a sticking solenoid/sticking shift valve/broken clutchpack disengagement springs/lack of disengagement in one of the clutchpacks causing one of the shifts to have too long of a crossover or something along those lines - type F will be a band-aid to this problem, and WHEN the problem comes back (IE - the clutch material is totally gone) the trans will certinally need a full rebuild and you'll know this because you'll be left stuck somewhere. but as it sits, it already needs a master kit (full rebuild anyhow)

 

You can mix type F with Dex-III with decent results, you'll just be diluding the friction modifiers - if you're going to end up rebuilding the trans anyhow, then go ahead and use the type F as a crutch for now - but I'd find out if the trans shop will let you get your own "master rebuild kit" so you can get some upgraded clutches and maybe even spend the change to get the posi/limited-slip differental. Borg-Warner offers a good kevlar clutch kit for these transmissions, I'll see if I can't find the link for you.

 

so basically - type F will be a crutch, because your transmission will* fail, type F may make it last a little longer as it won't allow as much slippage in the clutches, it may kill it a little faster depending on what's causing the excessive ware in the clutches.

 

(10 minutes later) I can't seem to find the site right now, but once I do, I'll post it for ya.

 

I hope that helps some ...

 

--Dave.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Thanks DaveFromColorado

 

What you said makes perfect sense how considering how much metal shavings and crap were in the pan when I changed the filter the last time.

 

I think I'm just gonna make an appointment next week for the shop to work on it. Do you think it's possible for them to work on it INSIDE the vehicle (which doesn't sound like a full rebuild to me..) :?:

[JoroCorona]

No, It is not possible for them to do a full rebuild on that trans with it in the car. They have to remove the pump and pull the guts out through the front of the trans.

 

Also, with the amount of metal shavings you have in the pan, you might have caused a bit of damage to the pump. Most pumps react quite badly to metal shavings in the fluid. Torque Converters dont like shavings either.

[DaveFromColorado]

They may be able to do a partial rebuild (replace the clutches and rebuild the valve body) which could fix your problem while the trans is in the car - but like JoroCorona stated, if they were to do a full rebuild, they'd have to pull the trans -

 

Usually with a full rebuild, it's best to replace the torque converter too - those aren't too expensive, but they aren't too cheap either.

 

--Dave.

[Heza]

...and if you want....get the transgo shift kit for the 4t60e that gets installed during a rebuild. that is...if ya want a shift kit.

 

the whole drama with 4t60es is the reason i change my fluid and filter every 9k in my car. at 9k its always red, not burned one bit, and few metal shavings!

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

If it is possible for a partial rebuild with the trans in the car for "$500-600", how much do you think it would cost at the most if they have to do a full rebuild? I've never had to deal with a tranny shop before so I'm trying to figure out how to be a "smart consumer" when it comes down to prices and warrantees. I don't need any performace stuff added... I just want a trouble-free trans that will last me a couple years, 100k at the most (I don't do a lot of driving). After (if) I get it repaired I might take it to the track once or twice just to see how it compares to my last car (88 GP 2.8). I really don't plan on modding the engine at all (unless down the road I blow a gasket, then I might do 3400 top end swap).

 

I already have a cooler which is probably keeping it on life support at the moment, so that HOPEFULLY shouldnt be an issue after repairs as far as burning the tranny fluid. That sucker can get fucking hot! A trans temp guage might be a good thing to add as well.

 

Again heres a pic of when I dropped the pan which was about 2 oil changes ago.. I have no idea what it looks like at the moment (if theres more chunks of metal or what).. any guesses on what these pieces are from? I had them in a plastic container that I've been looking for but I can't friggen find them (probably got thrown out).

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/dave64/S2400025.jpg

 

So guesses... rebuild or partial rebuild? I'm really not putting my hopes up for anything though.

[JoroCorona]

It cost 1200 dollars to rebuild the trans in my Chrysler.

 

I would expect about the same for any FWD car.

[1990lumina]

That sucks C-BAD....at least you know what's going on though, although it wasn't the results you were hoping for....

 

At least you don't have a 4L80E like my dad's Suburban. If that thing blows up it's around $5500-6000 CDN for a rebuild

[19Cutlass94]

Sorry to hear that, but atleast you know what to expect now. If it was me, I would just do a full rebuild, so that way, its all brand new parts that you can use with a tranny cooler if you choose to run one, and it will last longer than only doing a partial rebuild. Thats just my .02, but its really up to you if you want to spend more money on the rebuild. But if your only going to keep it for a couple more years, like you said, a partial rebuild should be fine.

[DOHCRagtopguy]

I had a tranny rebuilt on my 93 Z-24 I used to have about 5 years ago and it cost around $1800. That was done by Aamco. I think if my current trans blew I'd try to find a good used one somewhere and put it in myself to save the bread.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Christ on a stick!

 

Went to the trans shop with a pic of my pan w/ shavings on it, and the guy was sure it needs a full rebuild. He said $1800-2500 :shock: Fuck that.

 

I'd rather drive it till it blows and then drop in a used trans. I sucked out 3L of coffee-black Dex III and put in type F, which the car shifted real nice this morning. Now (noon) it's hot outside so it's basically running like before, maybe a little bit better. Too bad I just changed me oil, otherwise I'd have an excuse to go under the car and drop the pan again.. I'm curious as to how it looks now. . I'm not sure, but I think my engine MAY be running a tiny bit cooler now too. Maybe if I buy some ATF in bulk, suck out as much as I can every 1000miles and put some fresh fluid in it will keep it on life support.

[DaveFromColorado]

the easy way (but awful bad way) to exchange the fluid is to pull the cooler line and run it into a drain pan (have someone holding the cooler line, or make sure it gets into the drain pan) start the engine for about 15 seconds then shut it off right away, measure how much came out, and add that ammount - you may require more time then the 15 seconds, but that's a decent place to start to figure out how fast it will pump the fluid out ... if you run the car too long you can evacuate the entire trans, and that's bad, if you don't run it long enough, you won't get much removed - it's an idea, and hopefully it'll work.

 

--Dave.

[Jcrow]

1800-2500 seems high, whats that in america dollars. I paid about 1100-1200 to have mine done. but mines not the electronic, dont think that would change the price tho

[DaveFromColorado]

in US dollars, that'd be about $1400 - $2000

 

--Dave.

[JoroCorona]

About right to me

 

Take one line of the tranny cooler and put it in an empty bucket and put the other line into a full bucket of ATF. Run said tranny in gear with ebrake pulled until one bucket is full and they other is not. Quick flush ladies and gentlemen.

 

Wait... Dont do that. i cant remeber if this car pulls through the cooler or pushes through the cooler. Someone Verify?