3.5L Twin Cam V-6

[91GranSport]

So now that Oldsmobile is dead, what will happen to the 3.5L Twin Cam? I've never actually driven an Intrigue with that engine so I wouldn't know how it performs, but I think it should be a decent motor to "option" motor on the next W-Body cars. Maybe it should even be the base motor and the option motor should be a supercharged version. I think OSV had a supercharged Intrigue if I'm not mistaken. Imagine that, a high revving 24 valve DOHC engine with a supercharger! Too bad GM exploited the 3800 Series II. I think it's time they made more use of teh 3.5L Twin Cam. BTW, does anyone know if the 3.5L Twin Cam is aluminum or is it cast iron? I know the 4.0 Aurora engine and the Northstar engine is aluminum but I'm not sure about the V-6 version.

[luminator94]

The 3.5L Twin Camer is aluminum. When I recently had some maintenance done on my GTP, they gave me a 02 Old Intrigue, I kinda frowned when they handed me the keys to it. Better than the Toyota Corolla they gave me before though! But I was very impressed with the power of the 3.5L. It is a very silky smooth engine. Even at 6 grand on the tach, the engine is barely audible. Though not quite up to my 3.8L S/C, it had great power.

[GnatGoSplat]

I'm pretty sure the 3.5L DOHC dies with the Intrigue. The Intrigue was the test platform for that engine.

GM had plans to replace the 3800 Series II with it, but since it didn't perform any better than the 3800 Series II, cost more to build, cost more to repair, higher cost of parts, etc. It was decided to scrap the engine.

 

I don't believe there are any plans for this engine to go into ANY new car after Olds dies.

[91GranSport]

Does anyone know what'll happen to the exploited 3800 Series II? Great motor, too bad it's used on nearly all of GM's mid to large size vehicles. I bet the next engine they'll exploit is the LS1.

[GnatGoSplat]

They already are.

The 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0L engines in the pickups and SUV's are iron versions of the LS1. All parts (except pistons, of course) are interchangeable.

The Envoy/Trailblazer will also get an aluminum block 5.3L that's identical to the LS1 except for bore size.

 

The reason they didn't use the LS1 as-is, probably the additional cost of the aluminum block and the smaller displacement of the 4.8/5.3 keeps GM's CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) within government mandates.

 

The generic name for the 4.8/5.3/6.0 including LS1 and LS6 is "Gen III V8". They are GM's V8 of choice with the 3800 being GM's V6 of choice.

[cutlassdude96]

Yea the 3.5 died with the Intrigue on June 2002. The only other car to have the 3.5 was the 2001-02 Aurora.

[olds35]

lastest info is that GM was very impressed with how the 3.5 turned out(reliability and performance wise), and that the 3.5 was going to be standard on some other w-body cars in the near future

[91GranSport]

I sure hoep so. That'd be a waste to go through all that effort designing that engine off the Northstar V-8 and then scrapping it. They really should replace the 3800 Series II sometime. I just hate how GM exploits some of their best products.

[GnatGoSplat]

I disagree, I think the 3800 Series II is superior to the 3.5L DOHC in many ways.

The 3800 performed equally to the 3.5L DOHC, but has better fuel economy. It's a simpler design and better reliability. It also takes up a lot less room underhood. Given the choice of either engine, I'd choose the 3800. Now if the 3.5L DOHC produced 255HP like the 3.5L in the Maxima, that'd be a different story.

[olds35]

it could easily make 255hp like the nissan, the engine is toned down if anything, and it does perform alot better then the 3800 if you've driven a 3800 impala and a 3.5 intrigue you will be impressed with the difference the 3.5 right now is the best v6 that GM makes. GM throw out a award winning motor with higher quality into it then any other v6 that they make, heh, i dont think so.

[GnatGoSplat]

If it COULD make 255HP and still be driveable, it would. But it can't. Nissan uses variable valve technology, and GM doesn't use it (yet).

It does not perform significantly better than the 3800 Series II. Its 0-60 was only 0.2sec faster, and 1/4-mile only 0.1sec faster. I remember a Monte Carlo in Motor Trend with the 3800 and just a bolt-on Borla exhaust that was faster than the 3.5 DOHC in both 0-60 and 1/4-mile.

Considering the 3.5 gets worse fuel economy than the 3800 for just barely a hair better performance, it's really not worth the cost and complexity.

 

Its sheer size and girth makes it an impossible engine swap into a first-gen W-body while the 3800 is so small and compact, it fits with PLENTY of room to spare. This makes drive accessories and other items that are peripheral to the engine more easily accessible, so a vehicle with the 3800 is also going to be less expensive to work on and cheaper to own.

[olds35]

heh, with a borla exhast? the intrigue the 215 horsepower intrigue comes with a 2 inch single exhast what does almost every 3800 come with duals, give them equal cercumstances and the 3.5 is substancually better. and i dont know where you got your gas mileage numbers but the 3.5 can get up to 35 mpg at some highway speeds, but the highway avg in my 3.5 is 30.1 there is no way the 3800 is reaching that point. Plus if you look into gm future cars the 2004 malibu is on there as having the 3.5 in it.

[GnatGoSplat]

You can find this info on http://www.edmunds.com, I picked the 1999 Intrigue.

 

And actually, I was wrong. The Intrigue GLS w/3.5L DOHC goes 0-60 in 8.0sec. The Intrigue GX w/3800 Series II goes 0-60 in 7.7sec. The 3800 Series II is the better performer, same exhaust and everything.

Intrigue GLS w/3.5L DOHC gets 19/27mpg. Intrigue GX w/3800 gets 19/30mpg.

 

3800 Series II vs. 3.5L DOHC

- 3800 is faster, at least 0-60. Maybe the 3.5 has a SLIGHT advantage in the 1/4-mile, but due to its slower 0-60, it all evens out in the end.

- 3800 gets better highway fuel economy.

- 3800 is cheaper to build.

- 3800 is cheaper to repair.

- 3800 is physically smaller.

- 3800 has more low-end torque.

- 3.5L is smoother

- 3.5L revs higher

 

And if you care about aftermarket, there's a lot more mods for the 3800.

 

The benefits to the 3.5L... smoother and revving higher, I really couldn't care less about.

[msvestka]

The Twin-Cam (Shortstar) 3.5L is dead! GM no longer manufactures the engine. Oldsmobile no longer sells the Intrigue or the 3.5L Aurora. If you want to purchase a 2003 Aurora, your only engine choice is the 4.0L V8.

 

The 3.5L that is coming in the 2004 Malibu is not the same as the 3.5L Twin-Cam from the Intrigue. The 3.5L in the Malibu is a another addition to the 2.8/3.1/3.4 pushrod engine line-up that GM has been using for a while.

[olds35]

i asked some people at my work that are getting in touch with some people at GM to get official information.

 

And msveska, you know this because you called every single dealer? heh there is no way that you can make the assumption that you cant go pick up a brand new intrigue 3.5 or aurora 3.5

[cutlassdude96]

The Intrigue is dead as of June 2002. The 3.5 isnt going to be produce any more and will not be in the 2003 Aurora. The shortstar is being phased out along with the rest of Oldsmobile.

[SuperBuick]

The 3.8 is better, shawn is right. and my 3.8 gets 32mpg on the highway, way better than my 3.4 DOHC, not to mention that despite its larger displacement it is practiacally half the size of the 3.4. Around town, it drives better and has more pickup than the 3.4. The only thing that makes my 3.4 quicker is that it has a 5-speed - were it an auto the 3800 would be quicker, because the 3.4 needs to wind out to get going, and the 3.5 is the same deal. Now don't get me wrong its a cool engine, but the reasons for the superiority of the 3.8 in a production car are painfully obvious.

[olds35]

to be honest with even if the 3.5 is discontinued, its time for the 3800 to go with it. GM needs to develope a better v6 then the 3800 they cant stick with that motor forgetting price to price the 3.5 is a better motor for what ever reasons if they disgaurd the 3.5 there is no reason for the 3800 to stick around either if the 3.5 isnt good enough neither is the 3800.

[SuperBuick]

Sure there is: its light, almost unbreakable, cheap, fuel efficient, very torquey, and nice sounding

[olds35]

i know for a fact they have plans of removing the 3800 from a majority of cars that it is in.

 

Dont forget GM's "Commitment to build the best powertrains in the world"

[luminator94]

i know for a fact they have plans of removing the 3800 from a majority of cars that it is in.

 

Dont forget GM's "Commitment to build the best powertrains in the world"

 

 

How do you know this for a fact? Did you call every dealership? That line sounds familiar doesn't it? You said that same thing to someone that said you cant get a new Intrigue or Aurora with the 3.5 DOHC. The Intrigue is officially dead, so there is no such thing as a "new" Intrigue anymore. And if you ever read magazines like Car and Driver, Autoweek, Road and Track, you can pertain such information that the new Aurora only comes with the V-8.

 

As for the 3800 Series II, read those magazines buddy: GM is coming out with a 3800 Series III real soon. The 3.5L can't EVEN be compared to the 3800. For one, the 3.5L doesn't have the reputation of the 3800, which is that the 3800 is bulletproof. The 3.5L hasn't proven to be bulletproof yet. Also, no room under the hood to do any mods. My 98 GTP already has a S/C strapped on, and plenty of room for lots of mods! Sure the 3.8 may be "oldschool" pushrod technology, but it works, and that's why GM is keeping it around. I to vote the 3.8L over the 3.5 Twin Camer.

[olds35]

what does a dealership have to do with them going to a new motor in the future? i work at a dealership and most people in my shop have no idea whats going on until it happens.

 

OK so they they are gonna keep the 3800 that not very powerful but they've made a 3.6 with 255hp?

here bud(the 3800 might stay in a car or two, but its no comp to jap v6's):

 

New Global V-6 Engine Family

GM will also launch an all-new high-feature family of dual overhead camshaft V-6 engines, with a displacement range capable of 2.8 liter to 3.8 liter. Using advanced technology features in a well-refined, high-performance package, the new V-6 engines are intended to satisfy powertrain requirements for premium and high-performance vehicles across the world's automotive markets. The first member of the new global V-6 engine family to debut will be the 3.6-liter V-6. Producing 255 horsepower (190 kW) and 250 lb-ft of torque (339 Nm) (preliminary), the new V-6 delivers outstanding performance across an exceptionally wide segment of its powerband spectrum.

 

Incorporating variable intake and exhaust valve timing technology, the new V-6's control system phases each of the engine's four camshafts for optimum starting, idle, low rpm torque and high rpm power. This enables drivers to experience impressive drivability and power while producing lower emissions and achieving greater fuel efficiency.

 

Other features common to all engines in GM's new global V-6 engine family include all-aluminum construction, 4 valves per cylinder, roller-finger followers, electronic throttle control (ETC), durable forged steel crankshaft, special piston-cooling oil jets, coolant-loss protection software, GM's Oil Life Monitoring System, 32-bit microprocessor, coil on plug ignition and iridium spark plugs.

 

New OHV V-6 Engine

GM is also refining its overhead-valve V-6 engine family to include more displacements. The current engines, 2.5-liter to 3.4-liter, will be expanded to include displacements of up to 3.9-liter. The first new displacement, a 3.5-liter V-6, will debut in the 2004 Chevrolet Malibu. The engine offers improved performance and fuel efficiency, and runs smoother and quieter than earlier generation V-6 engines.

 

The 3500 V-6 features an advanced powertrain control module, improved fuel injection system, a redesigned exhaust manifold and a new catalytic converter contribute to reduced emissions, as well as improved efficiency and performance characteristics. Improvements in cooling, sealing and the accessory drive system add to the engine's overall quality, reliability and durability.

 

Fuel-saving Displacement on Demand technology for V-6s

As part of the improved overhead-valve V-6 family of engines, GM will be introducing its fuel-saving Displacement on Demand technology in the 2005 calendar year. GM announced its plans last year to introduce Displacement on Demand in its next-generation Vortec V-8 engines. When Displacement on Demand production begins in the V-8 and V-6 engines, the system will be featured in more than 2 million vehicles by 2008.

 

Displacement on Demand will help to increase fuel efficiency anywhere from U.S. federal testing estimated at 8 percent and up to a potential 20 percent for some customers in certain real world driving conditions.

 

"Extending this fuel-saving technology to our new V-6 engines is a perfect fit for the important family passenger car market," Stephens said. "With Displacement on Demand planned for family cars, light trucks, and sport utility vehicles, we're making our most popular vehicles sold in North America even more fuel efficient, and without any sacrifice in performance."

 

The Displacement on Demand V-6 will always start on six cylinders, and transition seamlessly from six-cylinder to three-cylinder operation under light load operating conditions in third and fourth gears. When added power is required, the deactivated cylinders re-engage in a fraction of a second, making the transition imperceptible to the driver.

[luminator94]

I think that the 3800 has good power. So that means your 3.5L isn't that powerful either, because the performance of the 3.5L over the 3800 isn't even worth mentioning. As for the 3.6L, I read something about that quite some time ago, and with any GM innovation, I'll believe when I see it. As much as I love GM, they are the type to be full of broken promises.

[msvestka]

i asked some people at my work that are getting in touch with some people at GM to get official information.

 

And msveska, you know this because you called every single dealer? heh there is no way that you can make the assumption that you cant go pick up a brand new intrigue 3.5 or aurora 3.5

 

olds35, No I did not call every single dealer. I am not assuming you can not go out and purchase a new 2003 3.5L intrigue or aurora, I know this for a fact. I work for GM Powertrain, and i know the 3.5L is no longer produced. If you go to oldsmobile.com, you will see the only engine choice for an 2003 Aurora is the 4.0L. Now you might be able to find a 2002 Intrigue or Aurora with a 3.5L still on a dealer's lot, but that would be the last the engines built.

[GPRACER]

Just a note, the vortec 4200 engine in the 2002/03 envoy does incorporate a type of variable valve timing, the exhaust cam is continuously monitored and it's timing optimized using oil pressure, also, the new Vibe GT also has VVti technology, even if it is a yamaha engine. it's still in a GM vehicle.

 

I recently completed a training course on the 3.5 engine, very complex engine, and very strong. Didn't carol shelby use variations of these engines in the newer shelby series cars? I'm not sure if it was the 3.5 or the 4.0.

 

Also, the 3800 is being slightly reworked and renamed series III the new supercharged version will be the 280+2 (280 horse and 280 torque.)

 

new Bonneville ssei gets 270 horse and tuned aftermarket exhaust and K & N filter system from the factory. (2004 models)