help needed....

[lowridincavy]

alright so I finished my engine swap 90 tgp engine into my 94 cavalier and I am running a standard transmission. After putting 3000 miles on it I blew the #4 piston. So I put all new Mahle pistons in and rings ect... After running it 460 miles after the rebuild (yes i was still breaking it in) I blew the # 6 piston exactly the same place and shape as the first one. Does any one have an idea of what's going on? If you could let me know I'd greatly appreciate it.

[Darkness]

Did you punch a hole through the piston? Are you using stock TGP heads or are you running something with more compression and/or milled heads? Sounds weird. Could you describe what happened to the piston a bit more?

[mfewtrail]

How were you running it when the pistons blew? I'm willing to bet your were in boost and those cylinders went lean for some reason. It might help to name off any/all modifications done to the car(ie: What engine management are you using? Injectors? Fuel pump?, etc., etc.......)

 

 

EDIT: Post some pictures of the blown piston(s) if you have the means to do so.

[lowridincavy]

Well I'm running the stock tgp computer and as far as I know everything else is stock as well. The only things I changed was the intercooler/piping/intake and I added a blitz blow off valve.

 

Here's a pic of the piston hope this helps??

 

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/440000-440999/440427_47.jpg

[idbeast]

TGP's are automatics, you are running a 5 speed, you do not have the proper chip for it,... there is not a proper chip for this application. there will be a slam of posts about a chip that will run a manual, but do a search and you will find (clean up ).

[Guest TurboSedan]

TGP's are automatics, you are running a 5 speed, you do not have the proper chip for it,... there is not a proper chip for this application. there will be a slam of posts about a chip that will run a manual, but do a search and you will find.... (clean-up 8) )

 

you bring it on prove it. that's right, you can't! this is nothing more than another lame attempt at scaring everyone away from any chip that isn't Jeff M's

[TGPilot]

I would like to see all the posts with blown engines in manual converted cars also. Only things I have read about blowing are the trannies because these motors are pure torque monsters with a good working chip and a weak tranny. :| 8)

[Jeff M]

you bring it on prove it. that's right, you can't! this is nothing more than another lame attempt at scaring everyone away from any chip that isn't Jeff M's

 

We already talked about this NOT being the case besides, Jeff don't got no manual chip AND he has offered some help that at least others don't mind adding to their own work , not that I have the answers but it takes a few to get it better, we hope!! 8)

 

As for the guy needing help, he needs to give more info, did he run boost while "breaking-in" the engine????, he had too, so I ask as I have done before, do you have a TGP fuel pump???? Don't forget the other end of the car!!! Same with the head question, needs to be those listed in the "Differences between a NA and a Turbo 3.1L" Sticky. There needs to be other info too but not for me, family needs me so, later, wife is home from the hospital and she is my priority, peace out guys 8)

 

Jeff M

[god910]

5 speed here, Engine runs great, I can go start it right now if you'd like! But I can't drive it, crater sized hole in the tranny. hahahahaha

 

Of course, my other TGP has a bad tranny as well, and it's auto. I guess that's 1 to 1 in my junkyard. Of course, my TD is getting fixed first.

 

It's faster!

[TurboGTU]

I would like to say that it doen't matter if you have the ultra fast burn (any regular 2.8/3.1)head or the "race" fast burn head(select 3.1/TGP). 8) It doen't really. The little jump in compression and flow and desighen should not couse a piston to melt. I have punched 11psi, nonintercooled, WF..ingOT..and the engine didn't give. Even when it knocked on perpose by me..it didn't give. I belive a LEAN condition "knock" will make a piston melt before a preingnition or "knock" from hot air or too much fuel (actually dieseling). :read:

 

I don't think a manual will make a "LG5" engine give.

 

The thing is..that most manual guys..here and some others from Jbody and around..have a tendency to turn up the boost everywhere..even if its not running right the first place. Or don't swap something out during a costume job on a different car. :|

EVERYTHING TURBO RELATED (FUEL, ELECRONICS) FROM A TGP NEEDS TO BE ON THE MODED CAR. :read: So if all you do is grab a so called TGP ecm (the junkyard pulluting 727)..and not change anything like map sensor, injectors, fuel pump, IAT sensor, your asking for it. :shock:

 

Know that you have everthing in order before you "hot foot" it.

 

But please do tell in detail what you specs are. Your aswer seems too broad for me still.

 

Fuel pump..stock or High flow

Fuel injectors, stock or TGP (22lbs)or what?

Map sensor stock or TGP or 2bar or what?

What turbo, what boost, what controller?

Need specs so we can truble shoot it better.

Its like me saying..:

I just put a McIntosh IC234 CD player in my 90 BMW. It doen't work..what can it be? Need specs. 8)

[lowridincavy]

OK I bought the whole tgp engine less the tranny from a guy in Sudbury. I am running the NA 3.1 fuel pump

I am asuming the injectors are the stock tgp injectors

garrett t25 turbo stock boost stock waste gate(haven't changed anything)

computer stock tgp (came with engine)

Map sensor tgp

 

hope this helps, if you need any more info just ask

[god910]

OK I bought the whole tgp engine less the tranny from a guy in Sudbury. I am running the NA 3.1 fuel pump

I am asuming the injectors are the stock tgp injectors

garrett t25 turbo stock boost stock waste gate(haven't changed anything)

computer stock tgp (came with engine)

Map sensor tgp

 

hope this helps, if you need any more info just ask

 

WHOOOOPS!!!!

 

That dood runs out quick. Stock n/a injectors are what? 17#? TGP are 22#'s.

 

Throw that pump on a 1990 Corvette and see what happens. :x

[LukeZ34]

you will find...(clean up edit 8) )

 

hahahahahaha! That's funny, mine's going on almost 3.5 years now since the swap, and it sure hasn't blown it's engine.

 

Yes, I edited my original post.. I was pissed at the time. :x

[TGPilot]

The N/A fuel pump and the "stock" auto TGP chip (who knows what version? :| ) in a 5-speed car is looking for trouble! I think you found it. :oops:

 

The auto chip is set up for auto-tranny shift points, fueling at those points, timing at those points, etc. Then you have different fueling and timing for cruise... different fueling and timing for WOT and all points in between.

 

Get with god910, Mars, and/or TurboGTU to get a temporary chip to throw in there so you can start to learn. Then follow their lead on how to tune your own manual TGP chip. Jeff M has been giving alot of good info as well on what is seen in the dataloggers and what to change to compensate.

 

If you have not been here yet have a look... http://www.netavalanche.com/tgp/viewforum.php?f=19&sid=53f6e9444d6fba55f8c5a0e140804698

 

8)

[mfewtrail]

OK I bought the whole tgp engine less the tranny from a guy in Sudbury. I am running the NA 3.1 fuel pump

I am asuming the injectors are the stock tgp injectors

garrett t25 turbo stock boost stock waste gate(haven't changed anything)

computer stock tgp (came with engine)

Map sensor tgp

 

hope this helps, if you need any more info just ask

 

WHOOOOPS!!!!

 

That dood runs out quick. Stock n/a injectors are what? 17#? TGP are 22#'s.

 

Throw that pump on a 1990 Corvette and see what happens. :x

 

For what it's worth, the current AC Delco part #'s for the NA 3.1 pumps = the same part number for the 3.4 DOHC pump....or either the parts sites I was browsing through when I bought a fuel pump were incorrect.

[Guest TurboSedan]

 

We already talked about this NOT being the case besides, Jeff don't got no manual chip AND he has offered some help that at least others don't mind adding to their own work , not that I have the answers but it takes a few to get it better, we hope!! 8)

 

As for the guy needing help, he needs to give more info, did he run boost while "breaking-in" the engine????, he had too, so I ask as I have done before, do you have a TGP fuel pump???? Don't forget the other end of the car!!! Same with the head question, needs to be those listed in the "Differences between a NA and a Turbo 3.1L" Sticky. There needs to be other info too but not for me, family needs me so, later, wife is home from the hospital and she is my priority, peace out guys 8)

Jeff M

 

lol ok i'm going to go out on a limb here and say i think Jim just wanted to provoke a response, and i bit. it's the same with crossover pipes....not made by you = no good. it's to the point that i can't help but believe Jim is just anti-DIY. back to chips. probably every 5-speed TGP chip floating around out there is unique; they are hardly the same as one another. you can't just throw a blanket statement out there like "EVERY car running it has blown the engine." i myself have yet to hear of a single car with a 5-speed swap that has a blown engine due to chip modifications associated with getting the car to run right with the 5-speed. i'm sure they exist, but certainly not every car, not even close.

 

anyways, i am with the others and think the NA 3.1 fuel pump is the problem. as boost rises, so does fuel pressure and the NA 3.1 fuel pump probably couldn't keep up causing the engine to lean out. i myself swapped in a new TGP fuel pump into my Cutty before i ever had the TGP engine in it. no way i would run it with a fuel pump that won't cut it! right now i have a Masters brand pump (from Checker) in the car but plan on getting a Walbro 255 later. the 255 might be a little overkill; a Walbro 190 would probably be fine too.

 

i would also suggest running the engine with minimum boost when breaking it in. run a straight vacuum line from the wastegate can to a manifold boost/vacuum source so you get as little boost as possible. this means bypassing the ECM wastegate control for awhile. should only be getting 4-5psi this way. you could also probably disconnect the wastegate arm from the wastegate can while breaking in the engine. that would let the exhaust gas freely blow the wastegate open resulting in practically no boost at all.

[Jeff M]

For what it's worth, the current AC Delco part #'s for the NA 3.1 pumps = the same part number for the 3.4 DOHC pump....or either the parts sites I was browsing through when I bought a fuel pump were incorrect.

 

Ummm, I know the pump for the turbo 3.1 is an EP375/25163463, which was different last I checked from an NA :? (always good to check/confirm any supplier, especially those that arugue you don't have a factory turbo on your GP , we just had a quote of one having this discussion ), but since the 3.4 DOHC/VIN X engine(?) has the same injectors, could be the same pump too as the VIN V.

 

Jeff M

[DaveFromColorado]

here's what I see from JUST that picture ... and yes, I did read the other responses ...

 

you didn't have enough fuel for some reason, it ran lean and "raised a ringland" (that's the typical expression for it) the other problem could be timing too, if your ign. timing is way off, it'll load up that cylinder and can* pop the ringlands, but not as easily as if you run outta fuel. I saw the suggestions about the pump, that'd be my first thought, if not an injector, but since it happened on two different cylinders, I'd assume the injectors are still okay, but would at least have 'em tested to prove, or disprove that theory.

 

--Dave.

[Guest TurboSedan]

(always good to check/confirm any supplier, especially those that arugue you don't have a factory turbo on your GP

 

Jeff M

 

definately double check. when i bought my Masters brand pump, i also asked what the part # was for a '90 L98 Vette. they were the same part #, so i felt comfortable about buying it. the stock NA 3.1 pump was a different part # altogether. i would have ordered a Walbro, but needed the car back on the road ASAP and Checker had it in stock.

[Jeff M]

lol ok i'm going to go out on a limb here and say i think Jim just wanted to provoke a response, and i bit. it's the same with crossover pipes....not made by you = no good. it's to the point that i can't help but believe Jim is just anti-DIY. back to chips. probably every 5-speed TGP chip floating around out there is unique; they are hardly the same as one another. you can't just throw a blanket statement out there like "EVERY car running it has blown the engine." i myself have yet to hear of a single car with a 5-speed swap that has a blown engine due to chip modifications associated with getting the car to run right with the 5-speed. i'm sure they exist, but certainly not every car, not even close.

 

Yea , I get feisty some times too, maybe go off :shock: , just hope I look back and re-read the post before its too late :oops: , which I have tried to do more so since a few replies I did I lived to regret and be embarrassed at later, even sent a few PM’s to repair the damage, just glad you guys know me enough to let it slide if its once in a while/long as its not a common occurrence (just like us mods evaluating someone heading from trouble) 8) , or give me a chance by asking WTFs up Jeff . And a good(???) woman can make the man, or make him something else/grumpy, mine is an expert at that so my mood is altered from sub-dermal estrogen infusion, and while I am at it, all you young guys be careful the lure, and don't hurry at it, no matter how sweet it seems now (already I am getting weird ), later things do go funny, if you can keep that in mind/humor to survive maybe, both members will be happier. I strongly believe most of chip and pipe digs are long gone, I know I have never dug at someone’s completed pipe no matter what, now or later, no reason for me!!! Just like the chip (and pipe) I have tried to give a warning/heads-up hoping to get people’s attention (thats the key!!!) so they don’t just slap it all together/believe in some muffler shop that messes things up worse (have a pile of pipes like that here if someone wants a pic), and from those whoopses, lose time and money if a few details are missed, there are some details, which have all been talked about now, and I am not referring to those that already know all the details like you , but all the others that read our posts then and did not reply, read them later, and much later which I hope I am not the only one thinking about the historical impact/benefit of posted words :shock: . So, I am cool, James I believe is too, hope its better with you too 8) . I try :read: to give someone a few swings before I ask if they really want/need to fight, give them a chance/benefit of the doubt/innocent until proven guilty, I don't enjoy a battle, me and Kenny have enjoyed our last posts and PMs and think its a relief for both of us now 8) .

 

I am all with you on checking the fuel pump too :!: , and what if since it’s the one that came with the NA engine, and it also has 150,000 miles on it!!! :shock: :shock:

 

Jeff M

[mfewtrail]

For what it's worth, the current AC Delco part #'s for the NA 3.1 pumps = the same part number for the 3.4 DOHC pump....or either the parts sites I was browsing through when I bought a fuel pump were incorrect.

 

Ummm, I know the pump for the turbo 3.1 is an EP375/25163463, which was different last I checked from an NA :? (always good to check/confirm any supplier, especially those that arugue you don't have a factory turbo on your GP , we just had a quote of one having this discussion ), but since the 3.4 DOHC/VIN X engine(?) has the same injectors, could be the same pump too as the VIN V.

 

Jeff M

 

EP378 is the NA fuel pump, it IS listed for a 3.4 DOHC on autozones website....other sites that don't carry the AC Delco pump list the same numbers for DOHC's and NA 3.1's as well(they just have different brand name pumps listed instead of OEM).

[TurboGTU]

One pump fits all I guess. WHOS BRING OLD POST AGAIN!!...LOL