getting your "money's worth" our of your w-body?

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

Alright so I'm really cheap sometimes.. and live in a dream land where I wish cars would hold their value. I paid $2000 (as is) + $1500 in repairs last summer on my car to get it road worthy. So to me approx $4000 (CND) was worth it for a nice looking, loaded comfortable car.

 

Now when I think about as time goes by and the car gets older, and I rack up the mileage even higher (as if it matters anymore), how much am I really losing on the value of the car? Since the initial repairs I've only done regular maintenace (fluid changes, a tire, etc) so it's been pretty good to me over the last 10 months. I've touched up some spots that needed rust repair (and have a few more to go) so I have improved the appearance of the car.

 

Is there a percentage or something to calculate how much your car is worth, or if you are getting your money's worth out of it? When I think about buying/leasing newer vehicles it is several hundred a month... something I don't have to do... so just curious as to y'alls oppinions.

 

 

Heres a pic of the car the day I got it home:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/canadianbadass2k/1995%20GP%20SE/S2400007.jpg

 

Current pic (clean and waxed)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y262/dave64bit/car_clean1.jpg

[1990lumina]

All I know is there comes a point (at least to me) that you have to decide if you are going to sell or keep. If you are going to sell it, then sell it.

If you keep it, you have to understand that you will never get back what you put into it.

 

I've come to that point, and I've decided to drive it until I crush it. Although my dad has expressed interest in buying it off me for a winter beater.

 

To the insurance company my car is only worth $2125 Cdn.

 

 

But I know what you are trying to figure out C-BAD....she is a nice comfortable car, but she is gettin up there on the mileage, she's pushing 10 years old, and there comes a point when you have to decide that if you keep it, if you do sell it later you'll never get what it is worth to you.

 

Just my 2 cents

[bartonmd]

People try and tell me that owning a new car is cheaper than owning something old that needs worked on (specifically one family I know)... I still don't see how it could POSSIBLY cost me more than $400/month payment + super-expensive insurance, + $300/year license plate tax... plus the fact that it's worth 1/2 of what you payed for it a year later!

 

They argue that even with me doing things for myself, that my time is worth more than a shop's time... guess what... when I get home, my time isn't worth all that much! Hell, I only spend MAYBE 2 hours/month on my Lumina... change filter every 5k, oil every 10k, rotate tires every filter change, and lube chassis... done.

 

now, if you pay a shop to do everything, and get ripped off, you can CERTAINLY pay more in repairs than the car is worth, but I think my W would be considered a total before spending $30k on it!

 

Mike

[GnatGoSplat]

All I know is there comes a point (at least to me) that you have to decide if you are going to sell or keep. If you are going to sell it, then sell it.

If you keep it, you have to understand that you will never get back what you put into it.

 

Actually, it's quite the opposite. If you keep it, you will never know how much value it's lost and you will take less of a hit. The longer you keep it, the less hit you take. For example, you bought a car for $4000, used it 5yrs, and sold it for $1000. That car depreciated $50/month. Now if you bought a car for $4000, kept it 15yrs, then sold it to a junkyard for $100, it depreciated $21.67/month. That doesn't take breakdowns or major repairs into consideration, but in my experience, these cars even with many miles and years on them, don't cost any more to keep than a brand new car (less, in fact).

 

People try and tell me that owning a new car is cheaper than owning something old that needs worked on (specifically one family I know)... I still don't see how it could POSSIBLY cost me more than $400/month payment + super-expensive insurance, + $300/year license plate tax... plus the fact that it's worth 1/2 of what you payed for it a year later!

 

They're just trying to justify their insatiable appetite for new and shiny things. It is BY FAR cheaper to own a used car, no matter how many repairs it will need. There is no way you could possibly rack up $25,000+ (the price of a new midsized car) in repairs to your used car unless it's some extremely rare exotic.

[MonteC]

People try and tell me that owning a new car is cheaper than owning something old that needs worked on (specifically one family I know)... I still don't see how it could POSSIBLY cost me more than $400/month payment + super-expensive insurance, + $300/year license plate tax... plus the fact that it's worth 1/2 of what you payed for it a year later!

 

They argue that even with me doing things for myself, that my time is worth more than a shop's time... guess what... when I get home, my time isn't worth all that much! Hell, I only spend MAYBE 2 hours/month on my Lumina... change filter every 5k, oil every 10k, rotate tires every filter change, and lube chassis... done.

 

now, if you pay a shop to do everything, and get ripped off, you can CERTAINLY pay more in repairs than the car is worth, but I think my W would be considered a total before spending $30k on it!

 

Mike

 

very true. paid 500 dollars for my rust free, striaght bodied GP. only put about 350 dollars into it.

 

i plan on driving it for a while.

[manitcor]

I look at it like this plain and simple, your typical new car payment for a 4door sedan or coupe in our class on a $25,000 loan with say $5000 down and a 6.5% intrest rate over:

 

60 months: 391\4692 peryr

48 months: 474\5688 peryr

36 months: 612\7344 peryr

 

now lets assume you have an awesome warranty that goes up to 5 years. You still have to pay for oil changes and most basic maintence yourself. Since most new cars go full synthetic and we will say that you drive an average of 12,000 miles a year (hell I avg 30-40k). Changing your oil every 3,000 miles.

 

Full Syn Oil change: 30-50each x 4 = 120-200 per year

 

So if your on a 60 month loan thats as much as $4900 yearly for that car, not including the addational insurance cost, etc.

 

Now lets take a 95 Monte for example (im using this because I know my value the best) which was bought in 2000 for $9,500 including a 3/36 full powertrain warranty. Financed the whole thing 0 down for 48 months on a 5.2% intrest rate for 48 months.

 

Thats 225 per month or 2700 per year.

 

Now I drive alot so I averaged about 20k+ per year but had whole stints of not using the car since Im a contractor. To make it even we will say its 12,000 per year. I use full synthetic and lets say im lazy and have someone do it at $50 a pop.

 

Thats another $200 a year so we are looking at $2420 per year now lets compare this yearly cost to that of a NEW car on a 48 month loan

 

 

 

New car: 474 or 5688 per year + $200 per year in oil changes

Used car: 185 or 2700 per year + $200 per year in oil changes

 

Thats a difference of $3468 a year or a difference of 11,952 bucks over the course of the loan. Your paying also less than half the intrest on the used car (totally depends on the deal you can get)

 

I could add on other misc maintnece as well but nahhh, because both cars will need things like oil, filters etc new or used so its really irrelevant.

 

Fact is over the course of you owning your car you would have to spend an extra almost $12,000 in maintance and major repairs before you approached what a person pays just in the COST of a new car.

 

And as a previous poster pointed out, people say things like that to justify new and shiny things. If they are turning the car over every few years for the next model. Then that high monthly cost never goes away. For most of us we have low or NO car payments (havent made a car payment in over a year now WOOT).

 

Having a new car may be less of a hassel granted because you can take it to the dealership and complain about warranty repairs etc. Once that protection goes away however its up to you to handle it. Now with some of the newer 10/100,000mile warranties it changes things up a bit, however how many people really drive only 12,000 miles a year?

 

I would eat a 100,000 mile warranty up in 3-4 years anyway.

 

And for refernce heres some costs of repairs I had todo not warranty covered and I abuse the hell out of my car:

New Trans: $1400

New Engine (blew it up with a oil leak off a turbo): $1200

Brake work over the past few years: $1700

Alternator: $150

O2 Sensor: $80

Head Gasket Replacement: $400

 

Total: $4930

 

Even with my repairs, over a 5 year period im still ahead by $6000 on a new car. Now of course there is a point of diminishing returns where the neccassary repairs im doing may surpass that of what someone with a 2000 may have todo. Though I did hedge my bets by putting in a 20k mile engine and a nicely rebuilt trans, the car runs almost like new. And I certianly drive it alot more than 12,000 a year so it sees more maintance than the average car.

 

And now with no car payments I figure even if I spend 1500 a year on repairs then its no bigge, its still alot less than a car payment.

 

Which is cheaper again?

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

That's all good input..

 

I'm just wondering if (when?) my trans goes it'll be over a grand probably to get a new (reman?) one put in.. which would be even MORE than I previously had put in the car. My 88 was higher mileage and I beat the piss out of it, besides the fact that I had to get rid of it mostly due to extreme rust- I really got my money's worth out of that car! Paid like $2000 for it, no "major" repairs in the 4 years I owned it. And I still have like half the parts in my basement .

 

The worst part of owning my car (or any older used car) is when people like my mom say I bought a lemon and that I should have bought a newer car or one that was lower mileage. 138,000 miles isn't really high mileage IMO, I just had bad luck getting a car with a hard-shifting tranny.

 

If my tranny goes I'll either 1.get a new tranny put in, or 2. put the car on the side (future L67 swap or something) and buy that nice 2001 Alero for $9900....

[Brian P]

There's no way to justify buying a new GM or any domestic for that matter, since it's resale value drops so quickly. Take for example a new base model Monte Carlo is over $22,000 MSRP. Yet you can pick up an '02 model with under 30k for around $9000 or even less, with the same body, and very minimal changes. So you just saved yourself $13,000 and you're in the same model car, with just some low miles.

 

In the case with your car needing a tranny, I know if mine does decide to drop out, I won't feel screwed over if I go ahead and get it rebuilt, since I know what's already been repaired, and an average rebuild costs $1500, and $1500 cars are going to have their own issues. You're better off fixing what you already have, as long as the rest of the car is in good shape.

[DiscoStudd]

The only problem with buying an "almost-new" GM that's over 1 model year old is you'll get screwed on the financing. The older the model year of the car, the higher you pay on your interest rate (no matter who you finance through,) so you aren't really getting that much better of a deal by buying an 02 versus an 04. As mentioned, GM's take a tremendous hit in depreciation the minute you drive them off the dealer's lot, so it is completely stupid, IMHO, to buy one "brand spankin' new."

 

With that being said, I have a simple formula that I adhere to when judging whether or not I got my money's worth out of a used car: I figure a new car payment is around 3 bills a month (my new cars have proved otherwise, but that's besides the point.) I count how many months I've had the car, multiply that by $300, and if the total is greater than or equal to what I paid for the car, then I figure I got my money's worth out of it, simple as that. (From that line of "figuring," I can find the point where a car becomes "worth the money." It would take almost 7 months for a $2000 car to be "worth the money.")

 

In the last 10 years, I've never had a GM vehicle that "wasn't worth the money" I paid for it (hell, I had an 85 Grand Am that I paid $200 for that I drove for 3 1/2 years! Even counting all of the minimal work I put into it, I more than got my money's worth out of that car...)

[dsgrntld187]

Moneys worth out of my W-body? Eh.. hard choice.. Probably?

[ragejg]

Hmm, I don't know where I sit on this...

 

In '99 I bought my 1st Lumina, a '91 with 138k, for $1000, a pretty good deal since the 138k was all highway miles...

 

That summer I sank $100 into new brakes and calipers...

 

Fall 99 it was taken off the road for a year, as I didn't need a car for a while...

 

Winter 00/01 I put $600 into new tires (winter tires), rear struts and brakes.

 

Winter 01/02 I put $600 into new tire (summer tires), front struts, and brakes... and a new door handle.

 

Winter 02/03 I put about $300 into a new driver's side rear caliper, new gas tank, and new radiator.

 

June 2k3 the motor went. I drove my buddy's Samurai for the summer and fall. The car was placed in a junkyard to be stored @ 207k, with great tires, good CV, good tranny, good gas tank, good rad, good alternator, good body, good interior.. it will be resurrected soon.

 

Fall 2k3 I bought a '90 Lumina with 200k for $400 ($100 every 3 wks I paid for it)... I drove it for 2 months and a hole developed in the block somewhere, gushing out coolant like a sieve... it was an almost dead car anyway so I didn't care, I just had to make it to work and back.

 

While I had the '90 I secured some garage time for a '92 Euro I had bought the summer before for fifty dollars... some motor problem... I sank $200 into the basics, filled the tires up and got a month and 1000 miles out of it before the motor crapped out. At that point I wanted to keep the euro so I sank $2000 into a motor swap from a 91 regal, new struts and brakes, and a new door handle.

 

The car only ended up needing new front brakes, a new door handle, and a new radiator from jan 2004 to april 2005 when one engine cradle bolt busted, and the other side of the engine cradle simply busted while going down the road. ... @ 155k. I only ended up putting like 15k on teh car in all that time.

 

It spent 2 monts off the road last winter though when I secured a 93 with a 3 spd with 130k for $600. I drove it for a month and teh motor crapped out. So it sat at the garage while I put the euro back on the road.

 

That leads us to April 2005 to now. No car. Relying on rides. And waiting for the garage to get done putting the euro's motor in my '93, which is in better shape than my 91 was when I bought it, which I ended up getting 70k out of...

 

Yes, it appears that I have had many a misadventure with my W-bodies. But do I know the cars front and back now? Yes. Would I ever buy anything else? No. the knowledge I have picked up on these cars is well worth the money and time spent in my opinion.

[luzmina]

Look to mine

91 Lumina with 197 K miles, I got it 10 years ago for 6K out of the door, plus around $2500 repairs most of them done by me, that is a total of 8500 divided by 10 years = $850, divided by 12 = $71 per month! Where can you find a new car payment for that money?

[gp90se]

hey ragejg, what in gods name are you doing to these w-bodys that you keep blowing motors. I have run bone stock 3.1s upto 7k rpms, run them at wide open throttle for miles on end, ran one with no oil, same car with to much oil, revved the piss outta them and they keep going. unless there 4 cyls which I know jack about, I dont understand how ya kill so many of em?

 

My regal I bought for $800 last month, ive put 3k miles on it, prolly $100 in repairs/maintence total and ill get 20k out of it before I get rid of it.

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

^^ I was wondering the same thing.. lol

 

I drove the living piss out of my 2.8 and it made it up to 280,000km before I junked it. Didn't burn oil or anything.. I never even had to crack open the engine to change a gasket! My 3100 I don't beat on quite as hard, cause of my tranny... but I still give it pretty good sometimes. Today it was hot and I was pissed off so I WOT and it chirped the tires going into 2nd gear :shock: kinda surprised me.. lol

[manitcor]

werd, I ran a turboed 3100 out of oil and blew the heads, still drove it for another month to and from work and made it 40 miles doing 90+ on the way to put the new engine in the entire time with the temp gauge pinned at 250+ before it finally crapped out.

[ragejg]

Hmm.. the grey 91, well, I drove the PISS outta that motor, and I think the lifters or rods were just ready to go at 206k... While going home one day it just started knocking like crazy, and it was a loud loud knock right underneath the rocker arms on the front cylinder bank. I declared the motor dead... maybe it just needs new rods or lifters?

 

The light grey '90.. well, I think the leak was from a freeze plug, because it was a big big coolant leak. It was @ 200k, and besides the leak the motor ran absolutely fine when I gave it to the junkyard.

 

The Euro... well, I really don't know on this one... the car and motor were @ 140k or so... and I had a seemingly unsolvable extreme temperature fluctuation problem (that's why I got it for $50). The motor ran fine, and sounded fine, but the garage declared it "dead or just about ready to die" when I brought it in after it started to EXTREMELY overheat very frequently.

 

And the '93... I really don't know. It ran fine, but it seemed to eat 5 qts of oil all the sudden all within one week, out of nowhere... It ran perfect 2 days before it went, then the day before I noticed it acting funny. The next day it acted the same, and then developed a terrible knock suddenly (no temp increase to my knowledge) and stalled out twice, and the froze right up.

 

So I DID get 70k out of one of the motors, and the 91 buick motor is going in it's 3rd car, and I'm going to SO baby it and monitor the living crap out of it, because I want another long lasting 3.1. I seem to have had some bad luck or something, but remain undeterred.

 

I just hope the L27 I throw in my grey '91 lasts a while.

[frusciante fan]

i bought my Regal last summer. they wanted $5000 for it which was way to much but i got it knocked down to $3000 after offering them money on the spot. the car has no rust and is perfect underneath and under the hood and 93,000 miles. so far i've replaced: rear brake pads, cam sensor, and the water pump. the car is from Florida so it's still really sharp. only thing is the paint looks like hell and is chipping under all four fenders, a quarter sized spot on the hood, and 4 or 5 spots on the roof. so this summer i'm repainting. i'm planning on having it repainted at a tech college near me and since they can't charge for labor i'll only spend $300-400 on that. also getting new custom dual exhaust next week...dunno about that. and if i've got extra money, which i should, i plan on replacing all struts, as my rear ones aren't gonna last too much longer.

 

thing is i'm starting college in the fall of '06 and i'll be broke as hell. gonna stick some money into because it's what i'll be driving for a loooong time. plus i enjoy this car.

[NOHC_WBody]

There is no way you could possibly rack up $25,000+ (the price of a new midsized car) in repairs to your used car unless it's some extremely rare exotic.

 

Totalling up everything Bill Heard & Morgan McClure did to my 94' GTP, using gmpartsdirect for the part #'s & cost on them, along with Bill Heard's then 80 dollars an hour rate came to somewhere north of $24,000.

 

[edit] Found it. Keep in mind, this is based off the receipts I got back from them, with what info I could get from the receipts. It also does not include the first timing belt that broke either & was repla ced under warranty. Without that warranty, I could be in debtors prison now.

 

Motor (LQ1 3.4 DOHC)

GM LIST: $6,239.67

Seal

GM LIST: $17.79

Nipple

GM LIST: $9.13

Thermostat

GM LIST: $10.07

Oil Filter O Ring

GM LIST: $1.39

Coolant

GM LIST: $13.20

Wax sealant

GM LIST: $3.98

Oil Filter

GM LIST: $5.39

 

8.5 Labor Hours X 80.00

6301.88

Total = 6981.88 (Performed Twice) 13963.76

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Alternator

GM LIST: $179.46

 

3 Labor Hours X 80.00

Total 419.46

Running Total 14383.22

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Transmissions

Trans Kit

GM LIST: $394.34

 

Front Pump

GM LIST: $286.12

 

Valve Body

GM LIST: $559.41

 

4 Times Total

11.5 hours labor X 80.00

2159.87

* 4

8639.48 4 Transmissions total

Running Total = 23022.7

____________________________________________

Morgan McClure Transmission Service

Trans Kit

GM LIST: $394.34

Filter

GM LIST: $18.07

Pan Gasket

GM LIST: $41.71

Reaction Drum

GM LIST: $59.62

Trans Flush

GM LIST: $12.59

ATF Fluid X 12

GM LIST: $43.80

13.0 Hours X 80.00

Total - 1610.13

______________________________________________________

Grand Total Parts & Labor 24632.83

[cutlsp]

i've put a grand total of 800-1000 bucks into my cutlass over the past 2-3 years i've owned it and soon i'm going to be sinking a lot more into it. I know people say the car isn't worth it but i think it is. plus its cheaper on insurance and is PAID for

[GnatGoSplat]

I don't think I've put over $600 in repairs into my 89 Cutlass in the whole 11-1/2 yrs I've owned it, not counting regular maintenance items like oil changes, oil filters, etc.

[Supreme Cutlass]

The only downside in my mind of the w-bodies is the fact that if you're in an accident, you can kiss your car goodbye as it's probably totalled, of course you DO get cheap insurance from that same downfall.