Missing, Sputtering and Dying *FINALLY FIXED!!!!!!!11ELEVEN*

[GP1138]

Here's the story. First thing to go wrong with this car by itself.

 

Drive the car out with my friend Kenny last night. I hit the gas like I always do to get to highway speed, and RPM needle starts jumping around. I'm like WTFucking fuck man? This is after about 20 minutes of driving. It continues to do it, stalling out a few times. It'll idle fine, but as soon as I hit the gas it dies.

 

So I go out to diagnose it today, start driving, and again, around 20 minutes into driving it starts missing like crazy, and dies. I basically have to put it into park and shut the car off, otherwise it bounces off of ~500RPM and eventually dies.

 

I'm thinking one or a combo of three things:

 

ICM/Coilpacks

Throttle Position Sensor

and last resort: Fuel Pump.

 

The thing is, if I let it die to the point where it won't start again, if I wait around 5 minutes and let it cool some, it'll run fine for about ten minutes. I made the mistake of driving downtown and ended up stuck there, so I went into a chinese restaurant to get change from the meter I managed to get in front of, (met an old friend from school in the process :shock: ) and came back out around 15 minutes later and drove it around halfway home (5 miles or so) before it died again, and even then I shut it off, left it off for around two minutes or so, and then I was able to drive another mile or so.

 

I've really got my money on the ICM/Coils, and I can get a good set from the yard for $35. I've also got a good TPS sitting around here, so I'll test the one on the car, and if that tests good, I'll do the ICM when I get paid tomorrow.

 

Any other thoughts?

[Intlcutlass]

I'd put money on it being your coil packs... I just got done with that job.... 8)

[GP1138]

Bump

[habenarohank]

Sounds like the same problem as mine it surges real bad and dies. I changed the coils packs and computer below it but it didn't help (they could of been bad but I pulled them out of a running car). Next step for me is the cranck sensor. I have no spark either.

[DaveFromColorado]

the Crank sensors on the 2.8/3.1 motors are fairly common to go out, associated typically with heat related issues - also I'd look into the ICM (the thing under the coil packs, but I'm sure ya already knew that) because those can also get really sensative to heat.

 

Now, you may also have an injector going bad, this was the case in my beretta, once the engine got hot enough, it'd cause the injector to short out and die, but when cool, it worked just fine.

 

--Dave.

[terryk2003]

i'm leaning towards ICM...i had a similar problem in my old cutlass...it would get hot and die...then i'd leave it sit for a few and start it back up and drive a lil farther, then it'd die again...most autoparts stores can test your ICM for ya...that might be a place to start...

[DaveFromColorado]

testing a cold ICM will simply tell you that when it's cold, it works ... I'd suggest just replacing it, as that's most likely the cause of your issues.

 

--Dave.

[GP1138]

testing a cold ICM will simply tell you that when it's cold, it works ... I'd suggest just replacing it, as that's most likely the cause of your issues.

 

--Dave.

 

You can't really test an ICM anyway. I'm just spending the $35 that it'll cost me to replace the ICM and coils. I can return it if I really want to, and the ones on there are factory anyway. Maybe I can pick up a good set of wires there too, since mine are kinda chipped.

[DaveFromColorado]

bad wires can certinally cause MANY issues... including problems with your ICM/Coils, especially if the sparks are jumping anywhere near the ICM... (usually associated with a tach that goes nuts)

 

--Dave.

[GP1138]

Bump - ICM/Coils did NOT fix the issue. I'm pretty steamed, but trying other things.

[GP1138]

Fixed. Found out the alternator fell off it's top mount and fell forward crushing one of the injector harness wires! :shock: Guess we didn't tighten that down enough when we did the topend swap. :shock: :shock: :shock:

[JoroCorona]

Nice. Always tighten to OEM specs!

[Justin]

On the remote chance anybody ever searches and finds this post, I had almost identical symptoms and a new crank sensor fixed mine.

[GP1138]

On the remote chance anybody ever searches and finds this post, I had almost identical symptoms and a new crank sensor fixed mine.

 

Thank you, I found multiple old posts and none were resolved. That was my next suspect.

[GP1138]

Nice. Always tighten to OEM specs!

 

Yup. I was all excited because something finally failed on my car, and it turned out to be my own damn fault! :oops: :oops:

[GP1138]

Holy shit was this problem not fixed. Woke up to my girl calling claiming my car is broken down and out of oil... I realize that it's stalling out again and the Low Oil light was coming on as it did so... walk the 3 or so miles to get the damn thing and drive home, no stalling until around 3/4 or so of the way home.

 

I decide to make sure and tape the wire that I suspected was exposed and then attempt to go to the junkyard to get a TPS, as I suspected that might be a problem as well.

 

I grab some brand new looking spark plug wires, a TPS, and a belt tensioner off of the newest 3100 (in a 1998 Grand Prix SE, the first Gen II W I've seen in any yard) since mine was almost in two pieces. :shock:

 

Get back in the car after doing plugs, wires, TPS, and belt tensioner. Halfway down my block the fucker stalls.

 

I get out and fiddle with the wires some more, and it still stalls, so I drive up to the park up the street, in the big parking lot. I get out, and find that there are two wires on either side of the plenum all by themselves, clipped together. So I pull one, engine running, and find it's the CTS for the gauge. I then pull the other (yellow) wire on the passenger side of the plenum and BOOM, engine dies. This wire also has a crimp in it. I uncrimp it and straighten it out some. I didn't want to clip and resplice it as I didn't have much wire to work with, and apparently that wire was the problem, as it's not stalled since. The plugs and wires definitely made a difference, as it feels a little stronger and pulls a little harder than before, and I'm sure the belt tensioner helped as well.

 

Here's hoping she makes it to Michigan next week. :shock: :shock:

[GP1138]

PROBLEM (ALMOST) SOLVED

 

I found that the two-wire plug that goes into the left side of the ICM (and I believe the other end goes to the crank sensor), at the time of the intake swap, had been ROUTED ROUND THE O2 SENSOR ON THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD, causing ALL THE INSULATION TO MELT and the wires to GROUND AGAINST THE MANIFOLD AND SHORT TO THEMSELVES.

 

Ugh. This will be so easy to fix, and it took all of an hour to diagnose 100%. I feel like a moron, because I probably did this in the first place.

 

It's "(almost)" because I still have to actually fix it. The engine is hotter than hell right now, and I still have to take the new crank sensor out so I can get my $15 back, which is a lot of money when you're moved into a new apartment...

[Robby1870]

Ive had the same problem before with the crank wire grounding out to the block.....very hard to diagnose

[GP1138]

Well, it's fixed. Exactly what I thought, too. I yanked the wires outta there, took them inside and seperated them, wrapping them with electrical tape and then wrapping the whole Goddamn thing with electrical tape.

 

I can't tell you how many times this problem stopped me on the side of the road before I realized what was going on. I feel like a moron. Luckily, she runs without a hitch now.

 

Ive had the same problem before with the crank wire grounding out to the block.....very hard to diagnose

 

Tell me about it. Thanks for all your help with this.

[5speedz34]

I can't tell you how many times this problem stopped me on the side of the road before I realized what was going on. I feel like a moron. Luckily, she runs without a hitch now.

 

Yeah, I can tell you about it.

[GP1138]

I can't tell you how many times this problem stopped me on the side of the road before I realized what was going on. I feel like a moron. Luckily, she runs without a hitch now.

 

Yeah, I can tell you about it.

 

I really did appreciate you going to find me up in MI. Thanks a lot.