dmcutty Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 Kinda of new here so I'll do the traditional newbie thing and ask an extremely DUMB question I recently picked up a fully loaded 1989 Cutlass Supreme International and I wanted to change the spark plugs on it. It has the 3.1L engine with all the plugs at the front at the level of the coolant fans. I swivled the engine back a bit and took off the coolant reservoir to get at the plugs a little easier. Now, what the heck is that black module almost completely covering the spark plugs? Is it the electronic ignition module? I can't seem to be able to unscrew the spark plugs out just like in most other engine. Is there something else you have to do before you get to that point. Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 2, 2003 Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 First all the plugs aren't in the front. What your looking at is the ignition module and coil packs. Follow the plug wires off that and you will find the plugs. 3 in the front, 3 in the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 Take the alternator and mount off for access to the back plugs. Don't forget to take the wires of the alternator. This is assuming you have the alternator on top by the firewall. You can also slave the motor but i find the alternator method eaiser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmcutty Posted February 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 D'oh! Thanks for the reply.. Those metal ends sticking out of the ignition pack looked deceptively like the ends of spark plugs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 Take the alternator and mount off for access to the back plugs. Don't forget to take the wires of the alternator. This is assuming you have the alternator on top by the firewall. You can also slave the motor but i find the alternator method eaiser. If you have a handy inclined driveway or some other incline, park the nose of the car facing downhill. Then unbolt the front dogbones. Much faster and easier than pulling off the alternator mount and alt. Plus, you don't have to disconnect your battery (the incline makes tilting the engine faster than even disconnecting the battery if your car has an airbox that must be removed first like my '89). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91CuttyConv Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 True, they may look like plugs but if you think about what the plug does then you know it wouldn't make sence. The spark plugs by there very nature would have to be on the engine itself and in "V" 6-cylinder engine they could not be all together. Just a note for next time:) Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperRed90TGp Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 Shawn: I disagree with you. You think slaving the motor is easier than removing the alternator. I resent that, done it to many times. If your a 300# gorilla you might be able to pull the motor forward and put the safty bolt in. I can't, yea I am getting old and weaker but I couldn't do it by myself 13 years ago unless I used pony clamps to pull the motor forward. Why would you go to all the trouble of disconnection the battery? I just slip a piece of 3/8 hose over the bat on the alternator so i don't short it out. Infact you don't even have to disconect the bat on the alternator you can lay alt and bracket all at once on top of the intake plenum just insulate it with a towel. Done it that way too. I now take it of the car due to a painted plenum. Let me get this corect. You say that removing the air box along with hose clamps and pvc unbolting the dog bones (that alone takes me longer than taking the three alt bkt bolts off the alt brkt) finding a bar that will fit in the dg mount (I have a three foot crow bar and still can't do it) pulling like hell to move the motor and getting you wife to slip the safty bolt in (I'll never do that again. She said if I can't fix it myself have it done)is eaiser than undoing your belt with the 3/8 rachet that you will use to remove the three 15mm bolts holding the alt brkt on, (I replaced the bolt with the stud years ago so I don't need the 15mm wrench) and your 10mm socket to remove the bat on the alt (the alt wire harnes requires no tools) and then your spark plug socket to remove the plugs. There is more room under the plugs than on top to swing a rachet. Plus you won't cut up your arms and hands banging into all the crap behind the motor. Been there done that and won't do it agin. Do you lay on the motor to remove the rear plugs? Kinda unconfortable isn't. Not to mention the strain on the extremly valuable down pipe and the old hard heater hoses. This is avoided by not slaving the motor. I don't post much as you know. Just joined a month or so ago. I don't post unles I know what I am talking about and for you to flat say that your way is eiaser obvisouly with little research is pretty far reaching. As a moderator for this forum your choice of words was poor. If you had stated thats one way but I think slaving the motor is eaiser you might have not recieved this reply but when you flattly state it is eaiser and I am wrong you deserve the wrath. You obvisly don't know the best way and I am not saying that my way is the best. I just know that doing it your way is a pain in the ass to me and I would not do it again. Just had to vent. I await your reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 If you have a handy inclined driveway or some other incline, park the nose of the car facing downhill. ? enough said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted February 3, 2003 Report Share Posted February 3, 2003 SleeperRed90TGp: Yes indeed, I do think rotating the motor is easier than removing the alt. Maybe you would not have to disconnect the battery, I know I never do, but I almost always short the terminal to the plenum. Ooops! Yeah, happens almost every time. Probably because the rubber cap on my alt terminal broke off long ago on my '89 and comes REALLY close to the plenum, but it's practically broke off on my TGP also. The alt wire is also short enough it doesn't sit real steady on top of the plenum. I've tried the towel trick and that precariously teetering alt power stud managed to BZZZT short on the plenum again. I would definitely recommend for safety's sake to disconnect the batt first, but myself, I'm too lazy and careless for that. No, I don't lay on the motor, when it's tilted, there's plenty of room to get to all the rear plugs from the passenger side. Maybe my height of 5'11" makes it so easy, I don't know. In the time it would take to be careful and use towels and hoses to fool with the batt terminal, get wrenches long enough to reach the alt bolts without killing my lower back, I could have had the motor tilted already. YES, with 4 W-bodies on the drive, I HAVE done it your way. ONCE, and that was enough. Also, I would hope GM had the foresight to design the TGP to allow for engine tilting. It is, afterall, the method outlined in the Service Manual! I know on the NA motors, there is a spring-loaded joint at the downpipe designed for easy tilting. Like ismellrealbad has pointed out, the key to tilting the motor is the INCLINE. With an incline, a smalll child could tilt the motor and tilt it back. I'm no muscle man, my idea of working out is lifting food to my mouth. I could be beat up by a little girl. But even the weakling that I am, I can tilt the motor effortlessly on an incline with the nose facing downhill. No breaker bar, no nothing. I can do it one-handed. My parents had a PERFECT driveway for doing W-body work. Unfortunately, I think my current driveway is too steep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 hmmm, i guess either way works. personally i'd much rather remove the alternator....i've done it both ways. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 i have an OK diveway for it. its just kinda slanted down but all i have to do is just put 2 blocks in the garage then back the back end onto them. the garage is already an inch higher than the pavement, the blocks are about 2 inches and the slope of my driveway gives me the rest. the only thing inconvenient about titlting is you have to turn those bolts so many times but thats probably just my lazieness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronic139 Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 the real key to any job is having the right tools. There are numerous simple, and relatively cheap tools available to tilt the engine with a couple of turns of a ratchet. thats the easiest way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nerfbars Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 I have always tilted the motor to change mine. When you remove the alternator do you have enough handroom to work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPRACER Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 the real key to any job is having the right tools. There are numerous simple, and relatively cheap tools available to tilt the engine with a couple of turns of a ratchet. thats the easiest way. Yes, couldn't have said it any better. Remove 2 bolts at the dogbones, and ratchet the engine forward with a tiedown strap soooooo simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Ive timed myself tilting the engine: 1 minute and 20ish seconds! The only thing you remove are the 2 engine side upper mount bolts (take a 13mm ratchet and a 15mm box end wrench, turn the ratchet and wrench in opposite directions and it comes out twice as fast) passenger side engine bracket is BUILT TO FIT a standard 2 footer crowbar. Ive done it without an inclined driveway and it was difficult, but you could use one of those nylon strap comealongs and BOOM it's in place. If I had a 3100/3400 intake I would most likely remove the alternator also, but on a 3.1 even after alternator removal there's still that painstakenly small space between the intake manifold and firewall. To each his own, do whichever you prefer, I'm not here to debate which is better by *fact*; different ways work for different people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crc Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Hmm.. kinda surprised some people are having problems tilting that thing... Even on a straight surface I can nudge the block with moderate effort and slide in the bolt to hold it. I find that I can tilt it even more on my cutty if I take off the front centre coolant tank (easy, quick job). I don't have to touch the airbox, bat or alternator. All of that is an overkill. BUT I find the same thing doesn't apply to some of the other w-bodies w/ 3.1L and forget about the 3100/3400, the alternator has to come off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Ive timed myself tilting the engine: 1 minute and 20ish seconds! The only thing you remove are the 2 engine side upper mount bolts (take a 13mm ratchet and a 15mm box end wrench, turn the ratchet and wrench in opposite directions and it comes out twice as fast) Yep, that's how I do it too. Doesn't take much time at all. Plus, a battery-operated power drill with 10mm socket attached makes a quick job removing that front coolant reservoir if you have an 88-90 that has it. I have a Lisle tool I picked up a few years ago for $12 (I think)... threaded screw-drive type thing that is helpful for tilting on a flat surface. It doesn't work nearly as good as an incline though, because it tends to bind so it's difficult to release (have to whack it repeatedly with a hammer). It speeds up tilting, but untilting wastes some time. I haven't tried the ratcheting tiedowns, sounds like an interested method that might work better than my Lisle tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 Ive timed myself tilting the engine: 1 minute and 20ish seconds! The only thing you remove are the 2 engine side upper mount bolts (take a 13mm ratchet and a 15mm box end wrench, turn the ratchet and wrench in opposite directions and it comes out twice as fast) Yep, that's how I do it too. Doesn't take much time at all. Plus, a battery-operated power drill with 10mm socket attached makes a quick job removing that front coolant reservoir if you have an 88-90 that has it. . Who says ya gotta remove the front resevoir? :) It flexes a lil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godofthunder Posted February 4, 2003 Report Share Posted February 4, 2003 When We changed mine, we rolled the engine forward. It was on level ground. I got behind and pushed and held it some (in park), so my dad got bolt it forward. It was still warm ,but enough room on the 3100. So the Alt and stuff doesnt need to come off. And yes, this is the way GM says. Who knows if its right. My dad was a GM master Tech, and thats what they showed him Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutlassdude96 Posted February 6, 2003 Report Share Posted February 6, 2003 Im going to have to do this this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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