GM not a complete failure???!!!

[GnatGoSplat]

Good luck folks. Maybe they should start firing from the top down.

 

But never gonna happen, the people at the top are the ones that do the firing.

 

Gotta love corporate America. The working class people who REALLY need the money are the first to get axed while the assholes at the top who rake in millions and have multi-million dollar nesteggs are sitting pretty in their cushy offices having assistants do all the work. All they do is spend time setting up meetings to discuss how many poor working class stiffs need to get the ax.

[Prospeeder]

I think it's funny that people complain about GM failing because their cars are unappealing and boring. It's very clear to me when I go out driving that GM's best selling cars are boring, slow, cookie cutter Luminas, Impalas, and Crapaliers. It would look to me that's what people really want (as in general public, not enthusiasts). Maybe GM's mistake was coming out with low volume specialty vehicles like the GTO, Pontiac GXP's, SSR, SS, etc. GM is coming out with more cars to appeal to enthusiasts than ever, but they're also at their lowest point in a long time. Maybe they should have stuck to cranking out high-volume, high-demand vehicles like Impalas.

 

thats really true, but the grand ams wernt exactly boring cars, and u can drive ANYWHERE without seeing like, 10 grand ams, i dont see how the camery is the best selling car, when u can drive like 2 miles and pass like 10 grand ams, i see like 20 grand ams to ever camery. I know the G6 will sell, i saw a ton of them in a big city i live sorta near. People complained forever how GM horrible cladding, and crap, now they are smooth, and people are still compaining, what do u want them to do?

 

 

EDIT: This is a boring car? (GnatGoSplat)

 

[Canada]

GM's cars suck right now.

 

The ENTIRE W body line up sucks right now.....compared to a Taurus, Camry, or Maxima.

[92chevyeuro]

The Nissan Maxima is an excellent car. I used to have a 98 that I traded on my Z28. I really regret getting rid of it.

[GnatGoSplat]

thats really true, but the grand ams wernt exactly boring cars, and u can drive ANYWHERE without seeing like, 10 grand ams, i dont see how the camery is the best selling car, when u can drive like 2 miles and pass like 10 grand ams, i see like 20 grand ams to ever camery. I know the G6 will sell, i saw a ton of them in a big city i live sorta near. People complained forever how GM horrible cladding, and crap, now they are smooth, and people are still compaining, what do u want them to do?

 

You don't think Grand Ams are boring? It's just another slow FWD car with a plasticky interior that's cheaply built and does poorly in crash tests. I always thought they sell well because they're just another cheap "sporty" low-budget car aimed towards 20-something year old impulse buyers who don't research their purchases before they buy.

 

GM's cars suck right now.

 

The ENTIRE W body line up sucks right now.....compared to a Taurus, Camry, or Maxima.

 

Not really, the Buick LaCrosse and 04+ Grand Prix's are very nice cars. Much nicer than a Taurus, IMO. They're just not nice enough to be worth a premium over the ever-popular Impala. The high pricetags on the Buick and Pontiac aren't enough to win over import buyers. Maxima is a nice car, but the current body style doesn't seem to be as popular as previous generations. Probably because the Altima is built on the same platform now, and why pay more for a Max when Altima is basically the same thing for less? In this area, current body Altimas are as common as Impalas and Tauruses.

[Stevo]

UPDATE:

 

GM stock has gone up with the announcement of job cuts. =\

 

GM currently has a ratio 2.5:1 of retirees to new workers. This is compared to 1:1 for Chrysler. The cuts in the workforce intend to make up for the loss of $1500 per vehicle due to payments into retirement and health care. GM has been slashing it's assets for the last 20 years. I can't see this stopping.

 

GM is late to the table in Crossover and Hybrid technology. The reliance on SUV sales without taking advantage of fuel economy technology is akin to the story of the ANT and the GRASSHOPPER for GM.

 

What I have heard is that GM intends to rely on the Solstice and the HHR to boost sales. I think this is ridiculous. Niether of these vehicles are going to bail GM out.

[z34_nut]

GM is late to the table in Crossover and Hybrid technology. The reliance on SUV sales without taking advantage of fuel economy technology is akin to the story of the ANT and the GRASSHOPPER for GM.

 

They have simply diverted all crossover and hybrid technology into hydrogen fuel cells.

 

If GM is right on this one, they will make out big, and every car company will be years behind GM.

 

As for the hybrids and fuel efficient engines in SUV's and trucks, they already have a standard equipment engine that gets great gas miliage. the 5.3 iter which shuts off 4 cylinders when the engine is at idle or cruising.

 

I'm not sure if its standard right now, or if it will be next year, but you could have this engine in full-size trucks last year, this year, and possible stardard (if not already) next year.

 

They also have a hybrid Full-size. it works. its there. you can go to your dealer and order one right now.

[GnatGoSplat]

GM's fullsize hybrid 5.3L isn't particularly impressive. 15/18mpg is what a 5.3L fullsize 4x4 gets. 17/19mpg is a 4x4 hybrid.

 

2 measley mpg city and 1 mpg highway for all that additional complexity and expense!!!

 

Nice try, but they need to try a little harder.

[z34_nut]

GM's fullsize hybrid 5.3L isn't particularly impressive. 15/18mpg is what a 5.3L fullsize 4x4 gets. 17/19mpg is a 4x4 hybrid.

 

2 measley mpg city and 1 mpg highway for all that additional complexity and expense!!!

 

Nice try, but they need to try a little harder.

 

they state that city driving is the most noticable, shutting down half the engine at every stop. When your driving a full size truck, every mpg counts.

 

but hey, I tried to stick up for them.

[Stevo]

As for the hybrids and fuel efficient engines in SUV's and trucks, they already have a standard equipment engine that gets great gas miliage. the 5.3 iter which shuts off 4 cylinders when the engine is at idle or cruising.

 

Kinda like the delta 88? Did'nt people just rewire these engines so that they were all time 8 cyl?

[GnatGoSplat]

Actually, I think the hybrid 5.3L shuts the engine COMPLETELY OFF when you stop.

I remember one complaint was when you stop, the engine shuts off, so the AC compressor quits running.

[z34_nut]

TRight, I got that confused with the plit 5.3.

 

the 5.3 I was talking about shuts off four cylinders electronically, and then fires them back up when the demand is there. It was on an engine dyno at Detriot in January this year.

[GnatGoSplat]

Yeah, that's the DoD (Displacement on Demand) 5.3L.

I think Grand Prix GXP's LS4 is that type of engine, but I'm not sure on that.

[Intimidatorz34]

Yeah, that's the DoD (Displacement on Demand) 5.3L.

I think Grand Prix GXP's LS4 is that type of engine, but I'm not sure on that.

 

Thats the motor

 

If anyone gets motor trend, be sure to read this months issue. I just got mine today. I had trouble not popping a boner while reading it. It was all about GM's new SS vehicles. The section that got to me was the article they had on Zeta. Basically they were saying how Holden is getting the chassis next year, as we know, along with Left hand drive Chevy rebadged versions for the Middle East and Brazil. In order to save GM, they suggested they rebadge some of these vehicles as the Chevelle and El Camino. Then again we have been saying this for a while, but like Motor Trend says, this makes too much sense so GM will have some excuse not to introduce something totally domestic until 2011.

 

If Gm is concerned about costs, do this.....preorder a rebadged Holden, or call it a Holden for all I care, show it off next January in Detroit. Have people preorder it like the solstice. Then Gm will know right off the bat if it would be a hit or not. But be sure to offer it for delivery within 6 months of showing it in Detriot to capture the enthusiasm.

[cutlassdude96]

As for the hybrids and fuel efficient engines in SUV's and trucks, they already have a standard equipment engine that gets great gas miliage. the 5.3 iter which shuts off 4 cylinders when the engine is at idle or cruising.

 

Kinda like the delta 88? Did'nt people just rewire these engines so that they were all time 8 cyl?

 

that was Cadilliac that had that 4/6/8 in the 80's

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

That's one thing I've always liked about GM...even the older ones like my Lumina...all the body panels line up perfectly. Compares to my Dad's Taurus where the hood is off alignments, doors don't line up with the fenders, etc. lol

 

That's the opposite of my experience, all the body panels on every late 80's and 90's GM I've seen don't line up worth a crap and some gaps are big enough I can stick the tip of my pinky through. I remember when the 97 Grand Prix's first came out, EVERY CAR had a much larger gap on one side of the hood than the other.

 

They are much better now though, I was just noticing the nice, even import-like gaps on a current bodystyle Deville the other day.

 

I think it's funny that people complain about GM failing because their cars are unappealing and boring. It's very clear to me when I go out driving that GM's best selling cars are boring, slow, cookie cutter Luminas, Impalas, and Crapaliers. It would look to me that's what people really want (as in general public, not enthusiasts). Maybe GM's mistake was coming out with low volume specialty vehicles like the GTO, Pontiac GXP's, SSR, SS, etc. GM is coming out with more cars to appeal to enthusiasts than ever, but they're also at their lowest point in a long time. Maybe they should have stuck to cranking out high-volume, high-demand vehicles like Impalas.

 

I agree that the new GP and other w-bodies are much better fit and finish now then before. Hell, the cladding on my 95 was so shitty that going through the "brush" style car wash knocked one of the pieces out of place. . Wonderful broken center console, HVAC knobs, and the list goes on...

 

Over here the Lacross is called the Allure. I'm not sure what that means but I think it's a cool name. I haven't drove one or anything yet, but I'm starting to see them on the street quite a bit. I think I'll see more of them then (97+) Regals soon...

 

 

I HATE:

 

Pontiac Vibe. It's a gay little car that sounds like a Sunfire. When you really get on the gas it's not too bad, but certainly not consider it quick. No power in the bottem end, and it feels like it's changing gears all the time. Stupid Toyota engine. The interior LOOKS nice, but is very uncomfortable, and the shifter is horribly placed to that when it's in park you have to bend your hand to adjust the HVAC controls...

I wish they'd AXE that thing.

 

Also a poor car.. the 04 Malibu with the 2.2. Ecotec. It's just too big of a car for that engine. Feels SLOW. I've drove one with the V6 and that feels like a whole different car. The power assist steering is kinda nice though for driving around parking lots. I don't like the seats though.

 

05 Sunfire. I thought they stopped making them in 04! Oh well. The most I have to drive them and hear that horrible exhaust note and ugly body and "1995" interior, the happier I am to see the Cobalt and Pursuit replacing it.

[GnatGoSplat]

Over here the Lacross is called the Allure. I'm not sure what that means but I think it's a cool name. I haven't drove one or anything yet, but I'm starting to see them on the street quite a bit. I think I'll see more of them then (97+) Regals soon...

 

Yeah, I like the Allure name better. They should have named them that here too. Allure means attractive. LaCrosse is some gay sport. :gone2far: Apparently they had to find a different name for the car in Canada because in Quebec, Lacrosse means "to masturbate".

 

I'm not thrilled with the styling, but they seem rather well built. The interior is simple, clean, it reminds me of the interior in my mom's 04 Maxima.

[supreme dreamz]

im about 45 mins west of oshawa the whole town is w bodies...its awesome

[Guest Anonymous]

personally i think the b4u/m cars looks a hell of alot better than anythinhg GM is making now.

[z34_nut]

Yeah, that's the DoD (Displacement on Demand) 5.3L.

I think Grand Prix GXP's LS4 is that type of engine, but I'm not sure on that.

 

Thats the motor

 

If anyone gets motor trend, be sure to read this months issue. I just got mine today. I had trouble not popping a boner while reading it. It was all about GM's new SS vehicles. The section that got to me was the article they had on Zeta. Basically they were saying how Holden is getting the chassis next year, as we know, along with Left hand drive Chevy rebadged versions for the Middle East and Brazil. In order to save GM, they suggested they rebadge some of these vehicles as the Chevelle and El Camino. Then again we have been saying this for a while, but like Motor Trend says, this makes too much sense so GM will have some excuse not to introduce something totally domestic until 2011.

 

If Gm is concerned about costs, do this.....preorder a rebadged Holden, or call it a Holden for all I care, show it off next January in Detroit. Have people preorder it like the solstice. Then Gm will know right off the bat if it would be a hit or not. But be sure to offer it for delivery within 6 months of showing it in Detriot to capture the enthusiasm.

 

I thought that GM axed the Zeta project?? This was a release on GMforums.com, right?

 

As for bringing Holden to North America, people will more then likely think that its; A: Ugly. B: Unpractical. C: Overpriced. D: Complain that its built in Australia (like it really matters!!)

 

For years, people begged and begged for a northern Holden, we get a badass GTO, and people whine about it. Its very disapointing to see this. How ever, magizines like Hot Rod, and Car Craft praise the GTO, while Motor Trend, and Car and Driver hate it.

 

It just goes to show that there are not enough enthusiasts out there buying these cars, or they are like us, and don't have enough money.

 

Average consumers suck.

[Stevo]

I have said it before and I'll say it again.

 

Those people who can't fathom why GM is having issues take note:

 

GM axed the Firebird and Camaro because ... 'The reciprocation of 2door V8 model buyers lowered substantially enough to warrant discontinuation of production of the Firebird and Camaro automotive line'.

 

Yet these asshats are pushing out the SSR (albiet small expected quantities), Monte Carlo SS (albiet small expected quantities), but are importing units of Holden's from halfway around the world? Where's the fucking sense in all this?

 

The Monaro is NOT the GTO. Just because GM's engineers spent way too much time designing an exaust to sound similar to the original GTO and slap GM/GTO badging on it does NOT make GM right in saying they are commited to product excellence.

 

I think GM deserves the crap they have coming to them. Time to own up to their stupid decisions to rest on old laurels and not pay attention to what the market is saying. The market stopped whispering in their ears long ago.

 

Now it's yelling "lead, follow, GET OUT OF THE GODDAMN WAY!"

[ZoomZoomFan]

The first thing GM needs to do is drop Isuzu and Saab.

[Stevo]

The first thing GM needs to do is drop Isuzu and Saab.

 

Their screw ups and bad deals with European manufacturers are and SHOULD be at the top of the list, like for example the fiasco over Peugeot and how GM is on the hook for millions of dollars and jobs.

 

However GM should be more concerned with their affairs at home before dirtying their hands elsewhere. :x

[z34_nut]

The Monaro is NOT the GTO. Just because GM's engineers spent way too much time designing an exaust to sound similar to the original GTO and slap GM/GTO badging on it does NOT make GM right in saying they are commited to product excellence.

 

Yet GM is the one who spent the money and time to build the Monaro...They supplied the demand for an Australian car, and it was met.

 

Who cares what the name is, it means nothing. It has total irrelevance of what the car accually is. The car is a high quality, turn you tires into jello machine. Simply because they changed the name to a car that they took time and development, quality and all, makes them seem like the bad guy.

 

They most likely figured it would be MUCH cheaper to import a car they already developed, and manufactured, then it would to say, spend billions in a entirely new platform? How does that make sense??

[Stevo]

Yet GM is the one who spent the money and time to build the Monaro...They supplied the demand for an Australian car, and it was met.

 

GM did'nt build the Monaro. They brokered the deal to develope it from surplus parts and design technology already lying around. The Monaro was already an establish design in Australia. Like Peugeot and Saab designs in Europe BEFORE GM got their dirty hands in their affairs. However there were SOME Holden products with LS1's already incorporated in them.

 

Who cares what the name is, it means nothing. It has total irrelevance of what the car accually is. The car is a high quality, turn you tires into jello machine. Simply because they changed the name to a car that they took time and development, quality and all, makes them seem like the bad guy.

 

Watch how they will bill this vehicle. They will claim GTO heritage and that this vehicle is 100% american, just sitting back blowing smoke up the arses of the North American public who are deffinately smarter than that.

 

They most likely figured it would be MUCH cheaper to import a car they already developed, and manufactured, then it would to say, spend billions in a entirely new platform? How does that make sense??

 

It would be much cheaper to keep the Canadian Plant (cheaper wages) and better build on an existing platform for a car with an entrenched 35 year history. THAT makes sense. (see 2005+ Mustang)