SEiZe Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Seems that you can still find RWD cars that come with V8s. Caprice SS Lumina SS Camaro Too bad the cost of getting one here would be outragous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 GTO is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 i highly doubt anyone here would vote no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Before I bought my truck, I would have voted NO just because RWD is a huge hassle in the snow. Sandbags are too heavy to mess with for my fat lazy ass. But now that I have a 4x4, I couldn't care less about whether my car has good traction in the snow or not. Anymore, even my FWD cars stay in the garage when the white stuff is on the ground. I still think I'd rather have an AWD over RWD given the choice. Preferably a rear-wheel biased AWD like the Nissan Skyline over front-wheel biased like the Aztek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 well i figure for the maybe 10 days out of a year that you might have snow i feel its not worth it to pass it up just cuz of that. hell if you drive around enough with it youll get better. theres people that cant handle the snow with fwd...too many :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPRACER Posted January 30, 2003 Report Share Posted January 30, 2003 Anything but a F-Body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve LS Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Not an issue here I already have many of both. The older big cars like my 76 Olds get around alright, the little cars of today may be more of a problem but limited slip rear axles would take care of that as well as snow tires which should also be mandatory in snow country. Way back when- a lot more problems came about when the tire manufactures started pushing the radial tires and telling everyone "these radials are so good you'll no longer need snows" B/S - buy a set of radial snows and go just about anywhere. My wife will always have a FWD she doesnt want to drive RWD to work every mornng in the winter time. The highways would be a mess with all these K mart licenced "heres the keys to the car go learn to drive" fools on the highways today. If a RWD started to fish tail they just dont know what to do or slide some around a corner. There would be alot more accidents I'm sure. FWD's especially with snows stop really, really well on snow. Stoping a RWD is not nearly as easy. Fwd's also corner much better on snow than RWDs. Women could never convert back. I never want a AWD car. I believe there is more than enough complicated crap that can go wrong with a car already I never want that expensive of a drivetrain. I live in the mountains and lots of snow. In fact our back roads have not been free of snow since Christmas. I get around great with just what we have. Its always been FWD cars and RWD pickups. Except one 81 Toyota 4X4 and a VW Rabbit pickup. I rarely use 4WD in the NoToy only during storms. The Rabbit PU with snows was nearly unstopable up to about 8"s fresh snow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I'd buy RWD, but I don't think every car should be RWD. The problem is that GM is missing that big segment of people who are car enthusiasts AND need a daily driver. GM would have hit the nail on the head if they had given the w-bodies EITHER a RWD OR a V8. I see cars like the Thunderbird/Cougar that went after this segment. A bunch of us would fit into that segment: we don't want a grocery getting smelly kid hauling feeble car, nor a cumbersome SUV, and sports cars are impractical. Something that I can drive 500 miles straight comfortably, yet have a little performance when I get in the mood, and have plenty of features that keep me interested. I think that's why the 88-92 W-bodies interest me so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I bought my Mustang GT only because i knew i have a front wheel drive in my CS but if i didnt have that car i probably wouldnt get a Mustang, in a snow its a pain in the ass but its fun driving it with a traction contol on but even with a little snow i couldnt get up my driveway so if i was going to drive only a rwd i wouldnt buy it but if you have a extra frw car go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I really don't think GM is missing a "big" segment, car enthusiasts really are a minority. Hell, I don't even know any car enthusiasts locally and I know quite a few people! The T-bird is now a specialty car for a VERY niche market, and the Cougar now a small FWD sports car. This is because the market segment for what they WERE (midsize RWD coupes) was soooooo small Ford couldn't make much money on them. Same reason the F-body is gone - not enough sales to justify production. That's why the GTO will also be a specialty niche market car with its pricetag of just under $30k. The general population just needs something to get to work and back, haul the kids to school, go to the grocery store, etc. with very little concern for performance or handling. They want something fairly comfortable, practical, affordable, reliable, and built well. They don't want the hassles of weighing down the trunk, special tires for winter, or any of those inconveniences. After all, today's consumer can't even wait till they get home to make a phone call. It's true, most women DO prefer FWD as well. All the women and girls I know would NEVER go back to RWD after owning FWD. My stepdad bought my mom an RWD car, and now she refuses to go to work when it snows! My wife also says she'll never want an RWD car. When my spoiled bratty little sis wanted daddy to buy her a new car, she asked me to find her a sports car with the requirement that it be FWD. My dad (who knows absolutely NOTHING about cars) has an RWD Infiniti Q45 and he always tells me he loves the car, but wishes it were FWD so he could get around in the snow. I think we will never see inexpensive RWD cars again, because they won't sell. More will come out for enthusiasts, but they'll be expensive specialty cars built in low numbers like the 94-96 Impala SS was, and how the GTO will be. I'm guessing expensive luxury cars will also remain RWD, because those cars are targeted towards people who have enough money that they can also afford to keep an Escalade or Lexus SUV for those wintery days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patgizz Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 ill go on record and say i think FWD sucks in the snow. i'll take my truck out in snow anyway over the lumina, without sandbags in the bed. its more predictable, and i dont like the drive wheels doing the steering cause if im trying to turn and the wheels slip the car stops turning and heads straight for whatever is there, usually a pole or ditch. performance wise fwd doesnt make sense either, weight transfer off the drive wheels is a bad thing. not to mention cv joints vs real u joints like in a rwd driveline. i only bother with the lumina cause i like the car, and if i had the funds it would be rear wheel drive with a v8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ismellrealbad Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 i totally agree with you. with RWD theres just so many more manuvers you can pull off if you start to slide. FWD if u slide ur fucked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 ill go on record and say i think FWD sucks in the snow. I find that hard to believe. My wife was behind a mid-90's Mercury Cougar once, and it couldn't make it out of the parking lot one snowy day. The woman tried and tried, but it just couldn't get traction. My wife got sick of waiting and just went around her in the Cutlass with no problems at all. My truck with its big knobby all-terrain tires can't even get up our driveway in 2WD. It's no trick in 4x4 though. On most snowy/slushy roads, it'll barely move in 2WD. Only time I've noticed FWD sucking in the snow is when I'm driving on bald tires or wide, speed-rated performance tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I really don't think GM is missing a "big" segment, car enthusiasts really are a minority. Hell, I don't even know any car enthusiasts locally and I know quite a few people! I mean like cars that can be liked by enthusiasts and average people. FOr example, besides the price, the Lincoln Mark VIII was a good example. One of those cars where you see true enthusiasts driving AND middle aged women driving. I also can't see why it's so difficult for a manufacturer to make one or two "specialty" cars at an affordable price. While it's true that FWD, four doors, 4 cyl and V6 "sell more" that doesn't mean that every friggin car has to be like that. I understand it in GM's eyes that they only want to make cars that the masses would like, but what a boring world it'd be if ALL manufacturers thought like that throughout history....At some point I'm going to want a new car, and odds are I won't have a wife and family just yet. As it will be in a few years, if I want a coupe from the General that's priced under $30k, what are my choices??? One car out of how many? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 now that I think about it, I see how GM tried to cover the type of car I'm thinking of with cars like the GP GTP and Regal GS, but they need to diversify themselves, stop using the 3.8 for every application, and bring that 3500 60* supercharged V6 with 285 hp into production and stick it into some chevy's, bring the SS badge back to life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I really don't think GM is missing a "big" segment, car enthusiasts really are a minority. Hell, I don't even know any car enthusiasts locally and I know quite a few people! I mean like cars that can be liked by enthusiasts and average people. FOr example, besides the price, the Lincoln Mark VIII was a good example. One of those cars where you see true enthusiasts driving AND middle aged women driving. I also can't see why it's so difficult for a manufacturer to make one or two "specialty" cars at an affordable price. While it's true that FWD, four doors, 4 cyl and V6 "sell more" that doesn't mean that every friggin car has to be like that. I understand it in GM's eyes that they only want to make cars that the masses would like, but what a boring world it'd be if ALL manufacturers thought like that throughout history....At some point I'm going to want a new car, and odds are I won't have a wife and family just yet. As it will be in a few years, if I want a coupe from the General that's priced under $30k, what are my choices??? One car out of how many? I wouldn't say the Mark VIII is such a good example!!! If I remember right, they STARTED at $48k. Hardly affordable! The old T-bird and Cougar would have fit your bill, but even Ford left that market segment with their replacements... and Ford is a company more willing to build low-profit vehicles. If you want brand new, there might be some hope in the next-gen Monte Carlo which I keep hearing will be built on the Holden platform too. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait for a used GTO. I think the execs at the car companies aren't willing to build cars that only a few people will want when the same factories, machines, and people can build cars that everyone else wants (and enthusiasts will buy reluctantly). High level management ALWAYS thinks with their salary in mind and the best places to save money and increase profit. In a way, I think the enthusiast crowd being willing to settle for small, 4-cyl FWD economy cars (i.e. Honda Civic) further shrinks the enthusiast market for V8 RWD's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I wouldn't say the Mark VIII is such a good example!!! If I remember right, they STARTED at $48k. Hardly affordable! The old T-bird and Cougar would have fit your bill, but even Ford left that market segment with their replacements... and Ford is a company more willing to build low-profit vehicles. If you want brand new, there might be some hope in the next-gen Monte Carlo which I keep hearing will be built on the Holden platform too. Otherwise, you'll just have to wait for a used GTO. . You should see what the mark 8's got for now....can get a 97-98 for under $18k. Love domestic resale! The T-bird/Cougar was a great example of what would suit me, but there are other problems with those cars, plus I'd still take my W-body over a 3.8 V6 version of them. Plus there's something about the 89-94 models that the bodies just don't hold together, maybe it's a ford thing... I am awaiting a new Monte. I'll take the current one if they just smoothen and freshen up the front end just a *little* and make the HS spoiler standard. If they make it based on the Holden/GTO, then cool, and I wish they'd make a Cutlass Supreme 442 out of it too! A little departure present for Olds 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Intl Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 With new all-season snow tires, we are very impressed with the W-body in the snow we've been getting in PA. Just point and go, it sticks like glue and keeps on going. FWD sucks when you DO get wheelspin, as steering control is lost, but this hasnt been an issue with the Cutlass. RWD drivetrains generally can handle more power than FWD, although there are some big V8 FWD's, the supercars (and NASCAR) will likely remain RWD. Police and taxi fleets seem to stick with RWD because they handle extreme abuse better, even though there is only one left on the market RWD is better for trailer towing. Much of the USA doesn't get snow, or only a couple inches a couple days a year. A RWD car with studded snows, traction control, and limited slip diff should get around pretty good in the white stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORBI Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I really love Mark VIII and almost bought one if it wasnt that i found my 94 CS Convertible that day i would be driving a 94 Mark, and still sometimes stil wish i had one to drive. But i think the only company that makes RWD cars is still Ford and Lincoln and the new Mercury Marauder that i saw on street only couple of times (pretty nice car), but from GM less and less but thats good because i preffer FWD and thats why my Mustang stays in a garage for last 3 weeks, its hard to drive it even with traction control and without it its impossible because of too much power and torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 i love the mark 8, my friend is shopping for one now, a 98 LSC. THat is one heck of a drivers car! I dont think GM's ever produced an interior that comfortable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 You should see what the mark 8's got for now....can get a 97-98 for under $18k. Love domestic resale! The T-bird/Cougar was a great example of what would suit me, but there are other problems with those cars, plus I'd still take my W-body over a 3.8 V6 version of them. Plus there's something about the 89-94 models that the bodies just don't hold together, maybe it's a ford thing... I am awaiting a new Monte. I'll take the current one if they just smoothen and freshen up the front end just a *little* and make the HS spoiler standard. If they make it based on the Holden/GTO, then cool, and I wish they'd make a Cutlass Supreme 442 out of it too! A little departure present for Olds 8) Most any car is affordable when used, given enough time passes! A 2004 GTO will probably only be $10k in 2009. About when they hit $5k in 2011 is probably when I'll buy me one. Yep, Ford bodies don't hold up nearly as well as GM. That's one thing I've noticed about the Mercury I had, and the other Fords my family has owned. That's also part of the reason I have a Chevy truck and not a 97+ Ford F-150 even though I liked the roundedness of the Ford better. I think the Holden platform is going to be replacing W-body coupes across the board. That's does seem to make sense, most people who want some thing practical will want 4drs and FWD. Enthusiasts who want RWD are also more likely to want 2drs. It's too bad Olds is gone and Buick is going. The Holden platform would have been perfect for bringing back the Cutlass 442 and also the Regal GNX. It wouldn't surprise me if the new Monte SS built on the Holden platform will be around $28-32k in price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEiZe Posted January 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I really don't think GM is missing a "big" segment, car enthusiasts really are a minority. Hell, I don't even know any car enthusiasts locally and I know quite a few people! I think that alot of people do miss the RWD cars. That is why the big SUVs are so popular. When the "big three" stopped producing RWDs in the 90s, everyone thought that RWDs were gone from the car market, so they started buying the gus-guzzling behemoths so that they could keep the RWD. I could almost guarantee that people would start buying RWDs once the "big three" started producing them again. That's my $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 I really don't think GM is missing a "big" segment, car enthusiasts really are a minority. Hell, I don't even know any car enthusiasts locally and I know quite a few people! I think that alot of people do miss the RWD cars. That is why the big SUVs are so popular. When the "big three" stopped producing RWDs in the 90s, everyone thought that RWDs were gone from the car market, so they started buying the gus-guzzling behemoths so that they could keep the RWD. I could almost guarantee that people would start buying RWDs once the "big three" started producing them again. That's my $0.02. I'm sure that's true in some cases, but the majority of SUV's these days are AWD or 4x4. Front-drive biased SUV's from Lexus and Honda are also extremely popular. I think SUV's just replaced the car because they're roomier, hold more, and are a status symbol. Plus, a lot of people I know site "being taller" as a benefit, although I personally like to be lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godofthunder Posted January 31, 2003 Report Share Posted January 31, 2003 My cutlass was awful in the snow. Because of all the other morons out here (when it snows .25 an inch, we close schools), I got stuck. This one guy stopped to talk to someone (in 2 inches of snow), which the bonnivile (mid 90s) stopped too. I was like OH SHIT. Hit the gas, slide down the hill. so i go to the botom in reverse, turn the wheel to the side, and floor it. Go right up the hill. Those other stupids pulled into driveways caus they were stuck on that hill for a while. Debs truck is ok in the snow, but hard to stop really. She has new tires (BFG Long Trails). But the truck isq quite powerfull for such a light truck, so she has to go REALLY slow, that and its not 4WD. I dont think she has limited slip either. I think I would actually prefer a less powerfull car in the snow. So when it snows here, I either catch a ride to school, have my bro drive, or get a ride with my parrents. ONe because I cant stand my car in the snow, and all the other idiots out there i dont want them to hit my car. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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