Intake Gaskets & Head Gaskets Are Gone, What to Do?@!?

[TheOneAnd]

Hey all, (I have searched the board, but haven't found post helpful, so....)

 

One problem after another with my car, 93 Cutlass Supreme SL 3100 in it.

Like the title says, my car is a piece of shit, motor got about 30,000mi on it along with the trans, but down to the point, I was driving the othernight and notice my temp gauge rising fairly quickly, it actually peaked at 280 right before i pulled into a gas station to see what the hell was going on, pretty sure it was the t-stat sticking, which was changed maybe a month ago by a dealer here in FL, well so this morning drove it slowly to the dealership with out it overheating much say right around 230-240. Get there they tell me everything is under parts warranty, yada-yada, well I sat there and physically watched the mechanic work on my car, he went to replace it and while do so decided to run a pressure test on my motor, which led us to find out my intake gasket(plenum??) is blown, droped the valve cover gasket off, to find a nice little sludge of crap, it basically like pudding in there, they didn't tear into but mentioned the intake gasket and possibly head gaskets needed to be replace plus the possibilty of remachining the cylinder heads. So my question to you guys.gals, is it worth the 1600+ on open estimate, it could be more, the majority is in labor and I know a set of GM gaskets isn't more than 130 from searching other posts, they have given me a comped rental for the next few days, so I need to figure this out ASAP, If i can do it all myself, intake & head gaskets, does anyone know of a write up or any tips for doing it, if i can fix it myself, I am selling right after fixing it, I am just sick of putting more and more money into this W, I love the car don't get me wrong but I would rather have a newer car, with less problems other than typical maintance, I have done just about everything to this W already, besides the forementioned gaskets, So if anyone has got any info, writeup to do this myself, or if anyone is in The Orlando, FL area, and is welling to help it would be much appreciated, like I said, I am getting rid of it as soon as I fix this,

 

I know there are some cheap ways to fix but I would rather do it right, if I am going to sell private party, a dealer won't give me shit for it. So let me know people, what are my best options

 

(The dealer I go to is reliable or has been for me, everytime I have been there, I always watch what they do. so I know there no yanking me, Labor is just expensive at a dealer, doesn't it suck>

 

 

Thanks to all that respond.

 

TheOneAnd.

Tony.

[White93z34]

i'd say your headgaskets are probably ok yet, you could get out of this fairly cheep if you did the work yourself. and in my experience a 3100 is a very easy to tear down engine.

[TheOneAnd]

i'd say your headgaskets are probably ok yet, you could get out of this fairly cheep if you did the work yourself. and in my experience a 3100 is a very easy to tear down engine.

 

Thanks for the reply, you say its fairly simple, are there any diagrams or should I just pick up a Haynes Manual, never had to do this before, so I am newb at it. THanks.

[digitaloutsider]

A n00b that WANTS TO WORK ON HIS CAR. :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

This could be an important day in W-body history. But in all honesty, it isn't that hard. A Haynes manual will describe the teardown process, but if you plan on working on your car yourself, your best bet is to pick up a factory service manual off eBay. You'll thank yourself later.

[Donutboy97]

I agree with everyone else. Every gasket that could go on my 97 MC went. Head and timing chain cover. My friend and I did the head gasket in a weekend and had do problems. We just used a Haynes manual and took our time with it. If you do that you should have no problems.

 

The GM 3100 and 3400 engine gasket are crap. just two weeks ago the intake gasket went on the 01 with just 33,000 miles. luckly it was under warrenty or i would have done it myself.

 

My recomendation is to have the dealer see if he can pinpoint if it is the head gasket or perhaps just the lower intake. If he does the pressure check he shoule be able to tell you. Also, try to get the gaskets from the dealer. GM redesigned the gaskets, and I believe the new ones have metal in the center of them. But if you are doing it just to get rid of the car, it will be cheaper to just go to the local parts store and get them. If you do that though, check to see if they have them first, because they can be hard to come by. I had trouble getting mine.

[TheOneAnd]

Thanks for the replies, yea it doesn't seem hard to do, I had it at the dealer the other day, pressure tested said the intake gaskets were leaking but said wasn't sure if the headgaskets were bad until he tore into it, so not a definte answer but if I am going to do this might as well do everything at the same time while its apart. I'll do myself the favor in picking up a haynes manual, or if I can the factory one. Just take my time thats all, than once up and running again sell it. Also, what do I need to do after replacing them as far as fluids are concerned is there and easy way to get all the sludge mixture from the coolant and the oil out easily while its apart>>??? suggestions aprecciated.

 

TOny

[twind]

it's faily simple, just did mine. I've also been to this work on the side for many years. Just take you're time. Make sure you get new head bolts, they tend to break when retorqe the head bolts. When you reinstall the injectors use oil to reinstall them, not valoline you will end up cloging your injectors. Any more questions please ask.

[TheOneAnd]

Question all, is there an easy way to get the mounts the dogbones attach to off, I got the first one TB side, but the one that wraps around the ac compressor and near the waterpump, I haven't a clue, found all the bolts just can't get one out above the compressor angles downward, any ideas, thanks.

[TheOneAnd]

Well just an update, got everything tore down to the cylinders now, everything you can imagine is off, about 16 hours over the last two nights. So after tearing into it, it turned out not to bad, the head gaskets are fine, but they are the crappy GM ones, I think FelPros would be better IMO, let me know if any others are recommended at a decent price, ohh I also found my damn exhaust leak, right on the exhaust manifold gasket, don't know how that was seperating and bending apart, possibly heat???? But as I was saying not bad at all, not alot of sludge a bit so, I will be cleaning the parts with something I guess, any recommandations on what to use to clean, and what parts I can n can't clean?? Oh yea it was the LIM gaskets cracked near on the coolant part area?? yea, so thats where the sludge was coming from, but all in all, a good learning process, I have a more profound respect for most mechanics (I stress MOST) that have to do this, it isn't that easy more time consuming than anything. Also before a forget, does anyone know or recommand use new head bolts, is necessary?? I think someone mentioned it already, but its 4:50 AM and Ima bit sleepy, so let me know,???

 

I appreciate all the help from the ones that have replied and from other posts I have read. Thanks

 

TheOneAnd

Tony

 

 

Anyone know a good way to reattach that exhaust back on, it has those two bolts with springs, they were a pain to get off even with the engine rotated forward. THanks again.

[joberlee]

Head bolts are a MUST. They are a torque to yeild bolt, they can only be torqued once. I would use lots of carb cleaner and brake cleaner on the parts. Make sure to clean out the intake while you have it apart, I like to flip it upside down and fill it with cheap carb cleaner, the amount of crud is amazing. Definently buy a factory service manual, go to http://www.helminc.com. That is who makes the books for GM and I've actual seen used ones on ebay go for more than new ones cost.

 

Make sure you get the "distributor" o-ring kit while you have it apart. I can't really think of any good way to hook that pipe back up on the back of the motor, i'll try to remember how I did it before.

 

Have fun.

[White93z34]

in all actuallity the GM headgaskets are prety good for this application, however felpros will do the job just as well

[Donutboy97]

yeah, and remember, GM recently changed their gasket design (gee I wonder why), but as stated above, feltpros work good, and are probably cheaper.

[TheOneAnd]

Well everything apart and is being cleaned gradually here, anyways I had special ordered the head set, which is suppose to come with everything, but it didn't come with the exhaust manifold gaskets??? am I missing something here, I thought the GM set came with everything I needed, I know the FelPro set does, that and for some reason there are these metal pieces with o-rings that resemble a baby bottle nipple, what are they??? the set cost me about $195 from a GM dealer, is this to much or no? Also if anyone has the correct part number for the entire set including exhaust manifold gaskets let me know the number, the parts dept. told me this set had everything but it doesn't so I am a little irate right now, I had planned on reassembling everything tonight, but now I can't. Suggestions appreciated thanks.

 

Tony.

[Brian P]

I've re-used 3100 exhaust manifold gaskets. As long as they're not broken, you'll be fine.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to describe, unless they're valve stem seals? Are they black with maybe an orange rubber ring on the top?

[TheOneAnd]

I've re-used 3100 exhaust manifold gaskets. As long as they're not broken, you'll be fine.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to describe, unless they're valve stem seals? Are they black with maybe an orange rubber ring on the top?

 

The exhaust manifold gaskets need to be replace, they where the cause of my exhaust leak. As for the part they are black with and orange o ring.

Thanks.

[Brian P]

If you have a nice GM dealer by you, they'll have the exhaust gaskets separate and they're a lot cheaper than you think, I paid well under $20 for the pair!

[TheOneAnd]

Ok, so do you think what I paid was to much, the Fel Pro sets are about the same like I mentioned earlier, anyways, so whats the deal with black metal flange thingmabobers with the orange oring on the end???

[Brian P]

Ok, so do you think what I paid was to much, the Fel Pro sets are about the same like I mentioned earlier, anyways, so whats the deal with black metal flange thingmabobers with the orange oring on the end???

 

all head sets run around that price, especially with the 3100 thermoplastic gaskets, so I wouldn't worry. Those black metal pieces are the valve seals/spring seat combination. If you want to spend the time removing all the valve springs when the heads are off, go for it, but I wouldn't bother. Newer GM valve seals don't go bad for a LONG time.

[jeremy]

<---------thought '93s had the 3.1 not the 3100.....

[jdcutty]

<---------thought '93s had the 3.1 not the 3100.....

 

There's a mix. Some had 3.1 some had 3100. I assume depending on if it was a 93 or a 93.5.

[Brian P]

yeah the Cutlass Supreme got the 3100 starting in '93. It used the 3.1 upper engine mounts, and had the round airbox like you'd see in 1988 W-cars and some Buick Regal 3.8's.

[jeremy]

I just knew Kevin's (93CutlassSupreme) always bitched about his 3.1 ...........and I thought the '93 sedan you sold (Brian) had the 3.1

[Brian P]

Yeah, they did, what I meant was it was a mid-year thing. SOme of the cars built in 1993 got them, but it was hit or miss, like the 3.1 was in 1989 when it replaced the 2.8.

[GP1138]

Yeah, they did, what I meant was it was a mid-year thing. SOme of the cars built in 1993 got them, but it was hit or miss, like the 3.1 was in 1989 when it replaced the 2.8.

 

Kind of how my late-1995 model year Grand Prix got the 3100 cylinder heads with the notches for roller rockers but stamped rockers, whereas older 1995 heads wouldn't have gotten the notches.

[Brian P]

yeah, I mean if you think about it, the 1995 model cars built in '95 are just ahead of the 1996 model cars built in '95.