BillHarrison Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 Hello world. We are in the midst of converting a z24 cavalier into a 3.1 turbo powered car. However, we are at a crossroads. We need to determine the GM part number for the "best" TGP Prom. This would be an updated one that eliminates random stalling and other various wierdness that the original chip gives. Any hints or info would be greatly appreciated Thanks Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted January 26, 2003 Report Share Posted January 26, 2003 do you have a 5-speed or automatic? Jeff M of this forum has some really good chips for the TGP (auto), but TGPilot has some chips for the 5-speed converted TGP. i am currently turbocharging my '91 Cutlass with parts from the TGP. i have also installed a Getrag 282 5-speed, so i'll be getting a chip from TGPilot. good luck joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted January 28, 2003 Report Share Posted January 28, 2003 The GM EPROM Code set AZRC seems to have the best settings if you will for a stock set-up, but if you are wanting to run some decent boost levels and not grenade your motor you will want a performance chip. As Joshua said we need to know your application before we can say what performance chip you would want to use. I have a 5-Speed chip that a few are very happy with and Jeff has the Auto-Tranny chip dialed in quite well! There are many other things to consider here, but the first question I would like to ask...Is this a Turbo Grand Prix Motor or a n/a 3.1 that you are strapping a turbo to? 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHarrison Posted February 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2003 It is a real 3.1 turbo grand prix engine from a tgp. The real deal, completely rebuilt. it was pulled from a 90, if there is any difference Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speedz24 Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Alright guys i have a few questions for yah..im going to swap a 3.1 turbo into my 90 cavalier z24 and im confused on a few things...i know the intercooler and crossover wont work but what im really havin trouble with is trying to figure out what i need to do for a computer..i know the TGPILOT guy makes a chip for the muncie 282 tranny which is what i have so thats definetly what i want to use for the EPROM but i dont know if i need to put the TGP computer in my car or if i can just use mine and get the TGP EPROM (the tgpilots actually) and have it work perfectly...i've talked to a couple of people about this who make chips and one says to swap the computer and the other says i could use mine with the TGP EPROM but im not sure..Im going to school for automotive and we're learning about computers right now so i asked my teacher what i should do and he wasnt really sure but he seems to think that i could just use my computer with the TGP EPROM and add the extra wires i need into the computer connectors and he thinks it would ok...s if ayone has any advice or knows anything about this kinda stuff please help me out..also im wondering what kinda of EPROM i would need from the TGPILOT guy as far as settings and such..and i also wonder how much they cost..please help me try to figure this out..thanks Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillHarrison Posted February 15, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 Well, to be honest, I would say you need to use not only the TGP computer but also the TGP wiring harness. Thats the route we are going. There are a good number of differences between the z24 computer and the computer in the W-body's. I am not even sure that the PROM would work if you plugged it into the Cavaliers computer, as they are different as far as pinouts and such go. I may be wrong, but we just took the wiring harness from the TGP engine, and the ecm from the tgp and just grafted it all together. With them both being gm's, most of the sensors were compatible etc and we just connected all the wires to where they are supposed to go. That way the dash and gauges all will work properly etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 15, 2003 Report Share Posted February 15, 2003 i'm using a complete wiring harness from a '90 n/a 3.1/5-speed Grand Prix on my original '91 CS 3.1 engine & '90 Getrag 282 5-speed. i plan on turbocharging this engine and keeping my wiring harness. the only difference between the TGP and N/A 3.1 wiring harness is the wires for the wastegate solenoid (i think that's it??), which currently go to my digital EGR. or you could use a manual boost controller like a grainger valve or something. i'm not sure how different the Cavalier is, but i would guess that if your car came with the 3.1, the ECM is the same, but the PROM will have to be swapped out for one from TGPilot. good luck joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 The wires from the N/A GP wires to be converted into TGP spec is only the Air select switching valve(air soleniod) wires(this is not the canister purge valve). just use the air select valve as your Turbo Wastegate solenoid. Unless the Air select valve is different than the OE wastegate soleniod, get one at the parts store. Both diagrams I have show that the HOt in run wire goes into the egr and the air select valve soleniod, it is showing the same for the Turbo wastegate soleniod. That hot in run wire is Brown. the other wire that goes into the soleniod is the negative(-,ground) palses the computer gives out to controll boost. This wire is Lite blue/white on TGPs, and on the N/A car it's black/pink. That N/A GP or w-body has to be the vin T, I don't know if the 2.8 vin w has it. Also the diagram shows (M/T) next to the Air select valve. I think its stating only the 5spd has this valve, or vin M and vin T. Never heard of a vin M till 93 on the Cutlass Supreme 3.1 automatic. If you don't trust that negative wire, then just run a wire straight from the solenoid to Pin A18 on the ECM. That should do the trick on swaping wires and ECMs. Your cavi has the ecm inside the car like mine, right. Then that pin would be F2 that you connect the solenoid to. I think reprograming the computer is all you need to get that pin to work on your computer. I don't know if its a Flag you have to chang or what. It don't seem to work on mine with the OE TGP chip. I will mess with the flags on the TGP chip and compare them to the Berettas chips flags. Unless some one knows which flags or what I have to move to get it to work. ON My beretta computer with the TGP chip the overboost feature didn't work(good thing I suppose), boost solenoid didn't work(pin F2, brown wire gave Positive, ecm gave no ground-overboosting or no boost), speedo read wrong(15mph over-getting that fixed myself by reprograming that constant), battery gauge didn't turn into boost gauge(TGPs boost gauge is the battery gauge on N/A GPs. forgot how they turned it like that), Mass sensor seemed to work when I conected it to the computer with the TGP chip even though TGPs didn't have a Mass or calabrations for one. I don't know what snags you will run into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speedz24 Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 well i dont know if that confuses me more or what...things make a little more sense now but i still dont know if i can use my computer or if i should just say the hell with it and use the TGP computer...im gunna have to think about it some more but i think im gunna end up just using the TGP computer...does anybody have one for sale or know of someone who has one for sale? also does anybody have the boost control solenoid? thanks Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 Well sorry if I throgh you off. That was to explain what each options requires. If I were you, I guess I would change wires and computer from a grand Prix as a last resort(w-body people have it easy for conversions, not you and I with '730 ecms). THe computer itself (without the chip) is the same computer from a N/A GP. The chip is what makes a TGP computer into a TGP computer. So you can buy a working junkyard computer and wires and install them into your cavi. Then just get a reprogramed chip from TGPilot since you will still need to reprogram it for 5spd( I still do recomend getting that OE TGP memcal for its LImp mode feature and knock circuts). SOmeone here is selling their computer and chip from their parts car TGP so you can snag those. BUt remember , changing computers and wires is no walk in the park,, just ask Curtis. For myself, I'm taking the reprogramming way. I don't know how long this will take me, but i should find a way to get pin F2 to work. If your realy despreate to get the car running , then scrue everything and get a Manual boost controler or a APIX or other digital fancy stand alone one. Its all about time and $$$. Flip a coin if you have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speedz24 Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 alright i can just put the TGP computer in my car with the TGPILOT's chip that will probably be the easiest its still gunna be a pain in the ass but i mean as far as getting it to work. do you know who was selling there TGP computer?? i dont really wanna get one from a junkyard..i need to find an inexpensive intercooler too do you have any ideas? thanks man Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 well i dont know if that confuses me more or what...things make a little more sense now but i still dont know if i can use my computer or if i should just say the hell with it and use the TGP computer...im gunna have to think about it some more but i think im gunna end up just using the TGP computer...does anybody have one for sale or know of someone who has one for sale? also does anybody have the boost control solenoid? thanks Ray wow someone else here from Laramie are you going to WyoTech? i have an extra ECM from a TGP, but i'm just going to use my n/a 3.1 ECM and use a PROM chip from TGPilot. i'll sell you the TGP ECM with the PROM chip for $40....i also have an extra TGP intercooler for sale and i'd like to get $75 for that (i paid $86 and hey you wouldn't have to pay shipping either let me know joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 16, 2003 Report Share Posted February 16, 2003 Also the diagram shows (M/T) next to the Air select valve. I think its stating only the 5spd has this valve yep, only the 5-speed cars got the air pump. i took mine off right away joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 Since your now decited on swapping wires and ecm, then you need this link to help you out on what pin is what. http://www.cruzers.com/~ludis/quadplugecm.html You also need a Chilton owners repair manual ISB. 28682 fror the Grand prix turbo wire chematic and one other owners manual from your car or wire schematics to help you out sort out wires and connections. You will have to take notes on what you find since you might get lost on what wire was what. Lable each wire if you have to(easier way) from the tgp harness and the cavi harness. Connect the wires with solder and shrink tubes to keep them sepreate, its also much neater and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse5302 Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 A lot of local librarys will have Mitchell service manuals. They have complete wiring diagrams, and will be a big help if you can't get your hands on a service manual. Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedZMonte Posted February 17, 2003 Report Share Posted February 17, 2003 alright i can just put the TGP computer in my car with the TGPILOT's chip that will probably be the easiest its still gunna be a pain in the ass but i mean as far as getting it to work. do you know who was selling there TGP computer?? i dont really wanna get one from a junkyard..i need to find an inexpensive intercooler too do you have any ideas? thanks man Ray I can get spearco intercoolers fairly cheap. RedZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speedz24 Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 yah joshua i do want that ECM wth the PROM in it...is it one directly from TGP? if so i will take it just let me know when where you'll be available..i do not need te intercoolr though it wont work on my car but thanks anyhow man...i have access to all the service information on both cars(any cars actually) because im in school we have Alldata which is information right from th service manuals which gives me anything i want to know including wiring diagrams and pinout connections and such and i can print out anyting i need so i should be all set with trying to get the wires straight...if i can gt that TGP ECM from joshua then i'll be all set with that part i still need to get the 5spd PROM from the TGPILOT guy but at least i'll hav the computer...thanks for the help.. Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speedz24 Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 hey rehz how much cheaper can you get spearco intercoolers for?? the one that works in my cr good is model #2-115 for the core and 2-221 for the assembly..do you know if you can get them to put both the inlet and outlet pipes on the same end? that would work the best but if not i can still get it to work...if you wanna help me out that woul be great..please let me know..thanks Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 yah joshua i do want that ECM wth the PROM in it...is it one directly from TGP? if so i will take it just let me know when where you'll be available..i do not need te intercoolr though it wont work on my car but thanks anyhow man...i have access to all the service information on both cars(any cars actually) because im in school we have Alldata which is information right from th service manuals which gives me anything i want to know including wiring diagrams and pinout connections and such and i can print out anyting i need so i should be all set with trying to get the wires straight...if i can gt that TGP ECM from joshua then i'll be all set with that part i still need to get the 5spd PROM from the TGPILOT guy but at least i'll hav the computer...thanks for the help.. Ray yep it came from the same '90 TGP i got my crossover and radiator from. call my cell @ 760-4915 and you can come pick it up. joshua Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
need4speedz24 Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 does it have the connectors with it?? i need the connectors and about 4inches of wiring from the connectors so i can solder thm into my wiring harness..where was that TGP that you got your parts from if you dont mind me asking? cuz i was thinking that maybe i culd get the connectors and wiring from it..thanks man Ray Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 sorry i don't have any of the wiring harness, i just threw it away like 2 days ago :? it was from my car ('91 CS 3.1/Auto). you should be able to get the ECM plugs you need from any 3.1 W-body, just DON'T go to Rinkers's Salvage in Laramie because they suck there are much much better salvage yards in CO. the yards in Cheyenne pretty much suck too. the TGP ECM i have is a GM remanufactured ECM; ECM#161982630 with chip #ATMK inside of it. i also have the original ECM from my CS, which has ECM 01227727. you could just swap the ATMK PROM into the 727 ECM, or keep it in the 630 ECM like it is now. or just plug TGPilots chip into either. i'll give you the TGP ECM, and my '91 CS 3.1/Auto ECM and PROM chips if you still want to buy them. just give me a call i don't even work until thursday btw, what parts do you have for your turbo project? are you just getting started? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebelGT Posted March 2, 2003 Report Share Posted March 2, 2003 I am doing the TGP swap also into a beretta, I think i'm planning on going a different route with the wireing though, as per brads suggestion. I'm just going to make a piggy back wireharness that just reroutes and adds wires into the harness. Here's brads... http://www.soothingdigital.com/TGP/wireconverter.jpg I think I'm going to have probs with my 3 speed though, not sure how thats going to pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris88CL Posted March 28, 2003 Report Share Posted March 28, 2003 oh oh! I need some more info on that piggy back harness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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