IT'S ALIVE!!!!(TSTE+5-speed)

[Marcus18]

after being down and apart for a year I cranked the ste up friday night.

boy did I miss the sound of that idle. I haven't gotten to drive it yet as it's a bitch to bleed the clutch. but other than that I have a 3.1 with a T3 and a 5-speed now. I'll be needing a chip soon from someone.

I'm going to be putting a switch inside for now to switch between drive and park. I'll get a video up as soon as I get a chance to drive it.

 

on another note how do you guys bleed the clutch?

I put a new slave on it and can't get all the air out of it.

 

 

 

marcus

[Marcus18]

well I drove it....my gamble with the turbo didn't pay off.

It's dumpiong blue smoke out the back so I think the seals are bad.

also it hits overboost at 1/4-1/2 throttle in any gear above first.

so I'm going to have to save up for a gt32 or something

 

 

 

marcus

[Jeff M]

What about the common bad turbo oil drain line??? Maybe you know but that detail here was left out We usually see white as the hot cat cooks things better not blue unless you are really dumping oil, you will find this funny, I did when it hit me a few years back, if you pull the o2 and its not oily then turbo and/or turbo oil drain line, if the o2 is oily then engine too damn easy and I missed it a few years back till it dawned on me how easy it is to check things this way :oops: .

 

Then this fuel cut, from overboost? That 1/4 to 1/3 throttle overboost fuel cut sounds typical of a chip with too much boost commanded at low rpms, not sure if your chip is fully stock :? , other than that for sure check the boost lines, sounds just like too much boost from things not being controlled. All of which I hope is the case so you can get back to driving with a smile 8)

 

Jeff M

[TGPilot]

Are you sure it is overboost? Are you getting a code? Does it feel like it is going to slam your teeth into the steering wheel when it cuts?

 

Or does it feel like it boosts strong and just bleeds off with no boost afterwards? 8)

[Guest TurboSedan]

well I drove it....my gamble with the turbo didn't pay off.

It's dumpiong blue smoke out the back so I think the seals are bad.

also it hits overboost at 1/4-1/2 throttle in any gear above first.

so I'm going to have to save up for a gt32 or something

 

 

 

marcus

 

sounds like more of a wastegate/boost controller issue to me. try simply putting a straight vacuum line between the wastegate can nipple and a manifold vac/boost source....how much boost do you get? should be pretty low...

 

when i do this to my GTS i get only 7psi max. on a TGP i've heard it should be 4-5psi max, but i haven't tested it myself.

 

have you checked turbo shaft play? is the compressor outlet or intercooler oily?

[Marcus18]

I have a new drain line. I have no cat.

my o2 is on the downpipe so I can't check that. it's cleared up alittle now I changed to a bigger turbo to drain hose pipe.

 

I found out after post last that my vac lines had poped off the TB I lost the clip that holds them on. I have the topgun160.

 

it seems like it has less power at 3/4 throttle than at full throttle.

I think the turbo is too small. T3 C .42a/r H .48 off of saab

I have to fix the clutch then I'll be able to figure out whats going on.

 

there is shaft play side to side up and down no forward and back though.

 

the org w/wht stripe that goes to the gear selection switch if grounded it shows park if not it thinks drive?

trying to figure a way around the rev limiter.

 

 

 

thanks

 

marcus

 

updated whats done to it in sig

[dbtk2]

Once you get it all figured out I want to hear about some track times for this thing!

 

BTW...what did you use for a clutch, and you used a 282 correct? After tranny number 3 goes I'm definately going 5 speed so I'm trying to figure out how to go about it.

 

Shawn

[Marcus18]

it's a stock replacement clutch. it's just to get me by and last a few months.

if I keep the car long it's all getting redone with stronger stuff.

 

as for track times they will come the first chance I get thats it's running right along with dyno numbers.

 

 

marcus

[Jeff M]

Ohh, all different I see :shock: , so lets see, wastegate spring different in this turbo than ours??? Something to think about, also doing what Joshua says for testing what you got.

 

So putting back on your vacuum lines is or is not making any difference now???...to what??? :? :?

 

Good idea to make sure the gear selector is right 8) , chip needs to know its drive. Rev limiter, ummmm, I like my engine and don’t want to rev it past 5,600 rpms, nothing up there even if we had a bigger turbo, unless you did some head and valve train work along with a bigger turbo, maybe a topend swap too :? .

 

Jeff M

[mfewtrail]

Does that turbocharger have a "TB03" tag on it somewhere? I'm pretty sure that's the same turbocharger my 1989 Volvo 740 came with. If so, it's too small for the 3.1....in fact, our stock T25's probably aren't "maxed out" as quick as that turbocharger is. I know some Volvo guys(2.3 liter 4cyl's) can only run around 250hp or so out of similar(or possibly the same) turbochargers.

[TurboGTU]

Good work..I would think this swap is a PITA. Yea..that thing's too small. Theres a guy on 60degreev6 using a T3 off a late 70s Regal that had the electric feedback Q-jet. Thing has a small compressor..but a huge turbine. Late spools..but not enough air pumped. This one is just too small on both ends. Try finding a ford 2.3 turbo .60 compressor and housing and .63 turbine as thise are verry commen and cheap. Or a Silva t25..to replace your tired center section and reuse your housings.

 

BTW..isn't this the first 5spd TSTE!

[Marcus18]

I haven't driven it that well since I put the vac lines back on. last I drove it the computer thought it was in park so I had a 3000rpm?(my tachs off) rev limiter. since I don't have a clutch I started it in gear and could get to the switch to switch to drive. first gear runs out quick. I don't plan on running past 5500rpm of so with this turbo I don't think I'll be running much past 4500rpms.

I can't use any t25 turbos as I have a T3 flange.

the turbo fords what years are those I may run to the junkyard and pick one up as that seems like it would bea perfect match for now.

 

this turbo is a airesearch t3 I wsas tod it was from a saab turbo and was the same turbo that comes one the dodge turbos. I ported the wastegate to get more flow. I have a boost gauge I just have to go get it and hook it up.

 

on another note no mufflers, no cat, and running it up to 5500rpm and let off the gas and let the engine slow you down sounds like a jake brake off of a tractor trailer......awesome!

 

 

marcus

[dbtk2]

BTW..isn't this the first 5spd TSTE!

 

Yes, it is the first TSTE 5 speed. If all goes as planned there will be another in the near future, that way there will be one of each color. (IIRC Marcus' is white)

 

What is the rev limiter on the stock chip? We all know our tachs are off, but my STE pulls and pulls and pulls and slams into the rev limiter. The limiter needs to go a good 500rpms higher IMO... Although I have a cam and topend swap, but still with the T25 it doesn't seem like it should have that kinda topend.

 

So let me get this straight Marcus...your driving it with no clutch pedal installed??? So you just throw it in first and start going using the starter? I think I'd install the clutch pedal before I did too much of that...however if I did get it going like that I sure as shit wouldn't just go to the top of first...the tranny has synchro's, throw it into 2nd and give 'er hell, then 3rd and maybe stop there because I would imagine with no clutch you wouldn't want to have to stop for any reason...

 

Also, is this a 282 or 284?

 

Shawn

[Marcus18]

I have a pedal installed I just can't get the master cylinder to pump up.

I'll have a new one tomorrow.

 

once I cranked her up and got one clutch pedal out of it I HAD to drive it alittle. you can't not drive something that sounds this crazy.

yeah it's white and it's the 282.

 

don't know if you guys do this or not but if you run up to rev limiter in 2nd then let off the noise the car make is what it's doing if I give anymore than 3/4 throttle in 4th or 5th gear. i drove it alittle more earlier and it's got power it's just overboosting and hit fuel cut in 4th and 5th. I think it's too much flow for the wastegate to unload. I gotta get a vid of it when I get the clutch working. it spools crazy fast.

 

 

 

marcus

[Guest TurboSedan]

this turbo is a airesearch t3 I wsas tod it was from a saab turbo and was the same turbo that comes one the dodge turbos.

 

marcus

 

you are correct, *most* Turbo Dodges use that same turbo. the turbocharger on my GTS is a Garrett T3 with .42 A/R turbine / .48 A/R compressor....and it "looks" a whole lot bigger than my TGP T25 turbocharger that's for sure! i am seriously doubting it's too small...compared to the stock TGP turbo anyway. most people on the TurboDodge.com forum agree the turbo is good for 275whp, i don't know if that # would be different for a bigger 3.1L V6 or not...

 

btw i believe Garrett took over AirReserach sometime in the early 80s??

[Marcus18]

http://photobucket.com/albums/y155/marcus19/

 

don't mind my dirty engine bay.

also thats the only intake manifold I had available(my 3.1 turbo one got crushed)... it has a good sleeper effect.

 

 

 

marcus

[skalor]

i drove it alittle more earlier and it's got power it's just overboosting and hit fuel cut in 4th and 5th. I think it's too much flow for the wastegate to unload. I gotta get a vid of it when I get the clutch working. it spools crazy fast.

 

I don't think that the wastegate is too small. Usually with a small wastegate you'll see boost creep in the upper rpms, but not as you're describing. The problem is probably that the wastegate actuator is probably ~7 psi instead of ~4 psi. Are you using the stock wastegate actuator solenoid?? If you are try hooking up a vacuum straight from the compressor housing to the wastegate actuator. That way you'll run what the spring in the wastegate housing is rated for, which is probably ~7 psi. Also, at least break the clutch in before beating on the car.

 

I have an extra turbo plenum if you want it, and it's a '90 plenum so it has the PCV port on the bottom. I also have a 5 speed GP plate for the center console if you need it. It doesn't have the boot as it was torn so I threw it out. PM me if you're interested in either item and we can work out a price. 8)

[Marcus18]

I used the actuator that came with it. I may be able to adapt the old one over. I haven't beaten on the clutch...much...don't have a pedal yet so I've only been able to give it a rolling pedal jab. once I get a new master cylinder then I'll take my time. I'm not going to be doing any clutch dumps and such.

I'm going to keep the sleeper look for now, if I decide to sell I'll swap to a stock one...if I keep it I don't think it will work with a 3400 topend

 

 

marcus

[Marcus18]

well bad news. drove it down the road and it overheated. the primary fan stopped working. it's been working for the last few days then it just stopped.

back when I was driving it with auto it did this same thing once. I never figured out what caused it because it started working again.

any ideas on why it might not be working? it has to be something that it has in common with before. fan going bad maybe?

 

other than that my dad was driving :? so I didn't get to get on it myself but it was fast. we drove it with the hose looped to the actuator and I think it was running 7psi. I switched it back to computer controlled and wow the power kicked in but so did the overboosting. I'll try and drive it tomorrow again and see if I can get a video.

 

 

marcus

[TGPilot]

Your sig shows a "5-speed topgun chip". Do you have a 5-speed chip from god910 or someone? With the manual tranny your VSS will show a slower than actual speed if it has not been properly corrected in the MEMCal. The Primary & Secondary on-off points should not be affected (other than staying on longer till it sees the turn off speed) so most likely either the temp send unit for the fans is not working right, bad connection, or the fan itself is seizing up.

 

Now with the matter of the boost controller. I experienced a peak in boost and then a fall-off that would not recover until the ignition was turned off and then back on when the stock controller was hooked up on a stock auto chip or Jeff's TG 180 auto chip. With the control line vented to atmosphere I would experience max boost of 12psi (at this altitude NOT RECOMMENDED for sea-level).

 

Looping to the actuator will be an easy sign of what the actuator diaphram spring preload is. You say 7psi...is that on a mechanical boost gauge or the stock dash gauge?

 

If you hook it into the actuator solenoid circuit it will do nothing more than restrict the actual control of the solenoid input. As an Example (not true setting on our cars)...the ECM tells the solenoid to open at 5psi, but your actuator diaphram spring preload is at 10 psi. The ECM controlled solenoid will start to send the pressure in the line to the actuator at 5psi. Until you reach the spring preload of 10PSI the spring will not allow the actuator arm to move until it's break-over pressure which is 10psi. If your solenoid is working correctly (good vacuum lines and operating solenoid) then you should never see higher than what JeffM has set for boost levels at given RPMs on the MEMCal.

 

With that said if you are truly hitting overboost which means:

 

1) Car has a serious and abrupt loss of power. Feels like it is trying to throw your face into the steering wheel!

2). No throttle response from the car for 3-5 seconds. Full decelaration just as if you turned the key off.

3). SES light shows on the dash for 5-10 seconds.

4). After 3-5 second loss of power the car resumes normal power.

5). Code is stored on ECM and available for you to see by either hooking up a code tool or by shorting the pins under the dash.

 

If you do not have all of these things than most likely you do not have an actual Overboost condition. You need to look into a fueling or spark issue, or as Jeff said earlier an ECM failure... 8)

[Marcus18]

I'm guessing 7psi as I haven't been able to get my boost guage yet it just feels stronger than the old one.

the secondary fan kicks on when the primary is suppose to. the primary never kicks on even when I check for codes which is when it used to run the secondary kicks on instead. ecm failure? like the memcal or what the memcal plugs into? I have the tg160 in it now nad I still have the stock chip on my book shelf. I also have a spare ecm that came out of the 88 cutlass 5-speed car. I could swap them. when the boosting problem happens it's like I let off the gas it spits and sputters. none of the overboost signs you listed. I'm going to swap the ecm and install the stock chip in it see if that changes anything.....they should be the same right?(other than the memcal)

 

 

marcus

[TurboGTU]

I think if you want to keep using the electronic boost controll jeff or someone will need to mod the boost selinoid duty cycle tables. Too much..and it will boost too much too fast...nothing at all.and it will react too slow or non at all. The stock settings were just to laugh about. just two settings were changed..everything else was flat. With your actuator..maybe its best to set it all to zero...or low settings.

 

Maybe try a manual boost controll.

[Marcus18]

well bad news...turbo is shot to hell. I went out last night and was getting on it and did a run to 4th then went down and didit again and it did a surg kinda thing then I left off and hit the gas again and it boosted up then started making a grinding noise. went outside this morning and the bearings are shot and the wheels sitting on the housing. theres no reason why it wouldn't have oil so I'm thinking it must have surged or overreved and kill itself. I have a mbc that I made yesterday with parts that were laying around, I just haven't tried it yet because I don't have my boost guage. so now I'm back on the hunt for a junkyard turbo.

 

 

 

marcus

[Marcus18]

well I took the guts out of the turbo and put a plate over the hole in the housing sonow I'm just a plain 3.1L.

 

I know where a turbo is thats $250 it's a direct replacement.

now I'm trying to figure out iif I want to keep dumping money into it or bail out. I owe $1800 on a loan I took out to fix it.

154000 miles motor has wear knock. no stereo or front speakers.

tires almost bald. no a/c. front bumper and hood are primered.

carpet is stained up front. passenger window won't roll down.

I don't think I'll get my money out of it. and if I keep it I'll end up with a car that needs a rebuild in 20K miles. the good is I think with good tires I could pull a low 14 as it pulls alot stronger than before.

 

oh well I guess I'm off to look for a used car to trade for.

 

 

 

marcus

[dbtk2]

Well, I hate to break it to you, but it probably wasn't a good idea to take out a $1800 loan to fix up a car that probably isn't worth much more than that loan, and with your description of the car, is probably actually worth less than it. It seems to late to bail out of it to me. Throw a new turbo on it and drive it, and new tires when needed, if you have to only replace two and then the other two when you get the money later. Or keep it and buy something else to drive around, and fix the STE up in your spare time and you'll have a nice little project car. However, if its gonna take you another $1000+ to make it nice enough for you to be satisfied then maybe it isn't a bad idea to dump it.

 

I know I've felt the same way about my STE, minus the loan part. I have over $5k into it, and right now it isn't even driveable. (although it does have a LOT of new parts on it) However, I feel I can't really bail out right now because I would lose my ass on it, and it being my first car I'd like to keep it for a while because it does have some centimental (sp?) value, and its a fun car to drive around. I feel that if I get a 5 speed in it pretty soon here then all that money will be worthwhile because I'll actually be able to once again enjoy the car I've invested so much time/money into.

 

Shawn