I may have found my problem? *page 3*

[GutlessSupreme]

I finally got the TGP started today, but it seems to be running extremely rough and VERY sluggish. It won't move by itself at idle speed and accelerates slower than an Excursion with a carbed Chrysler 4 banger would. And that's floored.

 

There's a huge list of possibilities than I need to try to narrow down.

 

-I didn't tighten down my rocker arms correctly, maybe with a few lifters on the cam lobe when I tightened them (though I was sure I had been thorough with that).

 

-Plug to my KS connector came loose or I didn't make a good connection when repairing the wires.

 

-O2 on the turbo may literally be fried (pretty much had a buddy use the power of the sun to remove two broken bolts but neglected to pull the sensor first)

 

-May have plug wires on the coilpacks in some wrong order, but I was nearly sure I labeled and reinstalled them all correctly.

 

There's obvious to me that there's a HUGE timing problem.. I just need to figure out what's causing it.

 

When we did a turbo swap in my friend's Caravan, it was VERY sluggish when we first had it running.. very similar to the TGP now. We think his timing belt was off by a tooth or so, but he also had a huge vacuum leak apparently... I'm pretty sure vacuum isn't my problem but it couldn't hurt to look into I guess...

 

I'm pretty much hoping it's ANYTHING but the first I listed.. I don't want to tear it down again to fuck with the rocker arms.

 

Anything else I listed should show a code right? As soon as I figure out why I can't check codes I'll be able to narrow it myself.. in the mean time, any input is appriciated.

[R Dubya]

From left to right, the rear cylinders are 1 3 5

Fronts are 2 4 6

 

Coils from left to right service 1 - 4 -- 6 - 3 -- 5 - 2 --

 

The rockers can be accessed by removing the rocker cover (valve cover). Remove the cover, pull the ECM fuse, and have someone turn it over while you watch.

[GutlessSupreme]

Couldn't get a code..

 

I had two plugs backwards on the coil packs.. #2 and another one.

 

Couldn't get it to start. Cranked no problem, but wouldn't start.

 

I'll need to fuck with it more when I get home.. gotta get ready for work.

 

Thanks 89TGP

[R Dubya]

you can reverse the order of the wires on the coil, just make sure that each plug wire is on at least the correct coil. for instance you can run 4-1 3-6 2-5 or 1-4 6-3 5-2

 

if they are crossed and on a wrong coil, which is easier to do than you may think, it will run terrible. most likely wouldnt even start. did you replace the plugs, wires? How about vac lines, make sure they are properly hooked up to the correct sensors.

[GutlessSupreme]

Ok. Plug wires were all in the right spot. Plugs are dirty as hell but shouldn't be a reason for a no start..

 

I pulled the valve covers. Cylinder 2's intake rocker nut wasn't tight at all, but all the rest were fine. I fix that up, threw it back together and cranked. The crank seemed to come a lot easier, but it wouldn't start for the life of it. Back off come the covers. Had my little bro crank while I watched all the valves for activity.. all looked good. No out of place pushrods.

 

I'm still convinced it's a timing problem but that could only mean the knock sensor. I need to borrow a spark checker to confirm everything's good there.

 

Fuel rail definetly has pressure. Pushed the Scrader (?) valve and nearly got an eyeful of gasoline.

 

I've checked all fuses.

 

edit: mods, please move to powertrain.

[Guest TurboSedan]

the rocker nuts should be tightened to 18-20 ft/lbs with the lifter on the base lobe of the cam (tighten nut with the lifter furthest down in its bore).

[GutlessSupreme]

I know. They're all set.

[GutlessSupreme]

Any suggestions guys what specifically to look for? Or did I cover everything.

[Guest TurboSedan]

check vacuum line to MAP sensor and that the line isn't cracked. also make sure it's plugged in

[RareGMFan]

FPR and injectors? They can go out on you out of the clear blue (especially the FPR). And as for the fuel pressure, I'd still check it with a gauge to make sure you're getting an adequate amount. Fuel coming out well from the schrader valve doesn't necessarily mean it's enough to start the car/keep her running/accelerating properly.

[gp90se]

his FPR is fairly new....throw a small amount of starting fluid into the intake and turn it over...if it starts, its a fuel issue....

 

Im gunna guess you forgot to plug sumthing stupid in, or the car is just doing what that car does best, piss the owner off lol

 

good luck

[GutlessSupreme]

or the car is just doing what that car does best, piss the owner off

 

Oh you know it.

 

If something wasn't plugged in shouldn't it be throwing codes at me?

 

Today's my last day of spring break so I need to get my ass in gear and get some homework and other stuff done that I've been putting off... hopefully I'll have time to do something with it today though.

[R Dubya]

Just pull a plug from each different coil pack and have someone turn it over while you hold it with some rubber handled pliers near the plenum. that way you don't get shocked. if you aren't getting spark its either the crank sensor or the ICM, possibly the ECM.

[no1kicker]

If you need to borrow a spark checker, let me know. My car ran beautifully for the few days your coils / ICM were on...

[GutlessSupreme]

If you need to borrow a spark checker, let me know. My car ran beautifully for the few days your coils / ICM were on...

 

I know.. sure you didn't try and give me your old ones?

 

I'm wondering if I screwed any of the wires going to the ICM when I was playing with all the wiring.. sure hope not. my formerly turbovan driving friend is coming by tomorrow with a batt. charger and spark checker and we're gonna go to town on the electrical system... changing the plugs while I'm in there too (pulled the front three yesterday to look at them.. talk about black. thing ran rich for way too long).

[no1kicker]

You'd know it, you actually have the AC delco ones...

[GutlessSupreme]

Alright, updates.

 

Sure enough, with some starter fluid the dumb bitch fired right up. wtf mate? Before I had it apart I had it starting on it's own for a good few months.. now it's back to how it was when Jeff had it.

 

I have spark all around. I replaced the plugs because the old ones were BLACK, and I had one that was jumping to the block around the boot. There were rapidfire 8s in there, all gapped around .032-.036. Threw in some R44s (Napa said these superceeded the R42s? so ok) gapped at .045. Might be in my head but it seemed a LITTLE TINY bit better, but it's still not running right. I've had it started with the front cover off and all looks good... sounds like there may be clatter coming from the rear but I swear they were all tightened down correctly... it's seeming like I'm wrong though

 

The only possible things I can really think of is that some of the injector connectors are loose (hope not! last thing I need is for it to run lean..), some rockers were tightened down wrong or I did indeed mismatch some pushrods.

 

fuckin a man.

 

One piece of good news is that my IC fan came on by itself, so I know it's workin alright. The primary lay dead still though (I know the fan's good, has to be wiring).

 

edit: after the first few start ups with fluid, it's now finally catching on it's own. Still doesn't move faster than a power wheels barbie corvette, but at least it's starting.

[R Dubya]

last I bought plugs, which was last year, the R42LTS were still available. good plan getting those rapidfires out of there. Might want to have someone else check that part # cross for you to be sure.

[GutlessSupreme]

Yea, I'll have to look into that.

 

Let me get some things straight about O2 sensors.

 

-Turbo cars have two, correct? One way down on the downpipe and one on the turbine housing? Why's that?

 

-Will the car run at all with a fried O2 sensor? (namely the turbine one. And I quite literally mean fried, not just worn/old.) Or will it just run REALLY bad?

 

I'm gonna replace it this week, in any case.

[R Dubya]

I'm almost positive that there is only one O2 sensor on the TGP. Right in the turbine housing. And it will run like shit if it's bad. Some newer cars won't even spark if the O2 is totally shot. It's worth a try.

[no1kicker]

I bought the 42's at pep boys 2 months ago. As far as I know: A bad O2 sensor can make the car run very lean or rich, but only in closed loop. I don't think it would have any effect on starting. I also believe our cars only have one in the turbo housing.

 

And, yes, I have a spare good O2 you can try if you want.

[GutlessSupreme]

I don't think it would have any effect on starting. I also believe our cars only have one in the turbo housing.

 

Alright. It starts fine now though, it just idles and runs like shit.

 

And, yes, I have a spare good O2 you can try if you want.

 

I may swing by sometime this week 8)

[maybe2fast]

I wonder still if it is a fuel pump problem or a wiring problem

[GutlessSupreme]

Fuel pump's new. Could be a wiring problem.. I don't know. It does kind of sound like there's some clatter from the rear bank.. so it looks like I may end up taking it apart.

 

I tried unplugging the O2 while it was idling.. I noticed no difference. Should there be?

[gp90se]

the cladder is from the filler neck not being bolted on

 

double check, i think i re-attached it. The wiring for the fuel pump I redid because the original was fryaed open. if u do drop the tank, get new straps since I know the tanks een out a few times, its just not a bad idea.

 

The o2 sensor shouldnt effect idling, but will activate an engine light if u drive around on it.

 

throw a fuel pressure gauge on the rail, but i honestly doubt thats the problem.. Did you plug the emission line that isnt connected under the car?