frozen_flame77 Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Okay, so i'm driving along in my 93 cutty 3.1 sedan thinking "i really need to do something ratical, besides already putting 18 inch wheels on here, a spoiler, and an awesome stereo system. its time to work on the engine" well, having a 3.1L sucks, cause, well, they suck...so i was thinking about converting the darn thing to manual and either swapping engines or rebuild the tranny (which i'd have to do anyways with the manual) and boost the crap out of it...what do you think? and how would i go about doing this?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTPrix Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 Ok, so get a manual trans....not a hard swap, been done plenty of times if you wanna try a search on it... As far as boost, the Cutty was never boosted, but did you know that some GP's like the TGP were boosted? You have a lot of options if you wanna get "raDical" Edit: And why does the 3.1 suck? Pretty damn reliable engine if you ask me. Drew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prospeeder Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 TGP motor is the way to go, 3.1 n/a are slow, and he obviously doesnt want slow, or a 3.4 DOHC w/ boost, that would be cool, but the timing belt will cook ur engine if u dont replace it in time, i think, dont hold me to it, they might have a saftey thing so they dont Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 3.4 TDC's are non-interference. Even if the timing belt breaks, it won't fuck up your valves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 3.4 TDC's are non-interference. Even if the timing belt breaks, it won't fuck up your valves. later ones were interfernence. '94+ I think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_flame77 Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 The 3.1s are insanely reliable, that is cool, but i'd rather have some speed. So how much horsepower would the TGP motor give me? or how much could i squeeze out of the 3.4 boosted? also, maybe it is just me, but everytime i search for something, no matter how different it is, i get the same stuff...and i found nothing on swapping from an auto to manual in a 93 sedan cutty...so if anyone has any info, it would be helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsmoBeast Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 You'd probably wanna talk to TurboSedan.... or at least look up some of his posts... he's got a '90? Cutlass Supreme Sedan that he converted to 5-speed, and now he's dropping in the Turbo 3.1 out of a TGP... And to answer your question, a TGP in stock form is rated at 205hp, the naturally aspirated 3.4L was rated between 200hp and 215hp? (depending on the year, and whether or not it came with a manual or an auto). The 3.4 was never boosted from the factory, obviously, but its been done. If I were in your position I'd go with a TGP motor, just because it seems to me like a simpler engine, you won't have to do a whole lotta custom fabbing since its set up for boost, and there seem to be more people with mods for TGP engines than there are mods for turbocharged 3.4s. 3.1 Turbo seems to me like a safer bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_flame77 Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 thanx for the help man...now where would i start to look for a TGP engine and how much approximately would it cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsmoBeast Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 My guess would be http://www.car-part.com Look for an Engine from a 89 or 90 Grand Prix, and then pick Turbo when it comes up with the specifications... You can try any local junkyards/wrecker yards... maybe eBay... sometimes there's the occasional W-Body.com member who's parting out a TGP or has an engine for sale... Its not the easiest motor to find, but I think if you look around enough you're bound to get one.... As for price, I have no idea... I've heard of people getting a complete TGP engine for like $200 and others have paid more... I really don't know... good luck! YK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsmoBeast Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 I just took a quick look at Car-Part.com and the way i searched it it came up with one TGP engine in Waterloo, Iowa, at Waterloo Auto Parts. (http://waterlooautoparts.com). I dunno how far you are from Waterloo, but they want $450 for this engine, and it doesn't include the turbo... so just to give you an idea... you do have to hunt around a bit for one of these engines. I would talk to dbtk2 or turbosedan or anyone who's done a Gen1 TGP swap into their car and see what all you'd need, get tips... Davis also just dropped a TGP engine into his 93 Cutlass Coupe I believe... all of these people will know more than I do about the subject, but from what I hear its not the most difficult of swaps. YK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_flame77 Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 thanx very much...i'm actually pretty close to waterloo...OH LUCKY DAY!...JUST JOKING, it is on the other side of the state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 3.4 TDC's are non-interference. Even if the timing belt breaks, it won't fuck up your valves. later ones were interfernence. '94+ I think? The 1996-1997 were interference. But I have heard stories of 96-97 ones breaking with no valve damage, and of earlier ones breaking with engine damage, so it really depends. But the timing belt should be a reason for not wanting to mess with it, its like what, $120 every 60k? Big deal... I would go turbo 3.1 if I were you. But I'd turbo your current 3.1, not buy a TGP motor. They are pretty much identical anyways. Just my .02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_flame77 Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 what would i need to do to turbo my 3.1?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 16, 2005 Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 what would i need to do to turbo my 3.1?? Turbo exhaust manifolds, crossover, turbo, charge pipe, I/C, I/C charge pipe, turbo chip, a a bunch of over small stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_flame77 Posted April 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2005 so question, would i be better off finding this stuff relatively new and more expensive from dealers and such, or just go to a junk yard and pull of the pieces but not spend as much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 17, 2005 Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 so question, would i be better off finding this stuff relatively new and more expensive from dealers and such, or just go to a junk yard and pull of the pieces but not spend as much? I don't think you can find it new--And if so, you can't afford it. You need to find it from j/ys. The csrossover can be bought from JeffM, aftermarket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen_flame77 Posted April 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2005 many thanx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetdreams Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 any engine will interfere if you got enough revs happenin when the belt goes down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 any engine will interfere if you got enough revs happenin when the belt goes down How do you figure? If the valve is at full lift, the spring is 100% compressed, the valve can't go down any farther, and the piston is at top dead center, again max lift, if they are to touching, it will not interfere unless you have stretch, which would be minimal anyways. The 91-95 DOHC satisfies this, therefore it is "non-interference." You are incorrect here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intlcutlass Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 So how much horsepower would the TGP motor give me? 205 stock 230-240 pretty easily modded (air filter, exhaust, cam, headwork) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
streetdreams Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Aaron what I'm saying is even in a 'non interference' engine, if your revvin the snot outta a motor at say 6+grand and the timing belt goes, your better off to buy a new motor than try to salvage whats left. 'heavy' damage occurs when a timing chain lets loose at high rpm in most of the motors I've seen come thru our shop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitaloutsider Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 When the engine is DESIGNED to rev to 6k, there shouldn't be any valve/piston damage on a non-interference engine, assuming everything else is working properly/crank is stock/etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 21, 2005 Report Share Posted April 21, 2005 Aaron what I'm saying is even in a 'non interference' engine, if your revvin the snot outta a motor at say 6+grand and the timing belt goes, your better off to buy a new motor than try to salvage whats left. 'heavy' damage occurs when a timing chain lets loose at high rpm in most of the motors I've seen come thru our shop How does the RPM affect it? Look, NO MATTER WHAT, the valves cannot touch the piston unless the rod bolts give or the valves drop. THEY CAN'T, that is the meaning of non-interference. So RPM doesn't matter, they are designed so that if I am at 7150rpm, and my belt breaks, even tho the piston is at TDC and the valve is at full lift, they still won't touch. In a non-interference engine, no internal damage will occur with a timing belt break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FastSE2DR Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 i agree with aaron for once! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fargo_182 Posted April 22, 2005 Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 From his post he is saying timing chain maybe that is why he is arguing with you? Just an observation... and anyway me and my cousin have an extra 3.4 with a broken chain, as far as we know no damage, and from what you say Aaron thank god!!!, new chain and we will have a back up 3.4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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