IlLuminator Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 The salient points of the saga. Started out as a 97 Lumina LS with a 3100. During warmer months it would run fine. Occasionally it would run rough until it warmed up when the outside temperature dropped below -5C (no check engine). It would idle fine but would start to miss when accelerating. One day in the spring of 2003, it ran like this for my entire drive to work (7km). I took it to the shop and they diagnosed it as an intake manifold gasket leak (they pointed out the leak). When they opened it up, the inside of the engine was coated in sludge, and I mean coated! The lifters were also all impacted. Engine flush and a new set of intake gaskets later and it ran just fine for the rest of the summer. I was of course changing the oil at virtually every 1000km to try and get as much of filth as possible out (it looked pretty clean). Every time the oil came out black and under bright light you could see sparkles from what I presume were metallic particles. It finally seized while driving to work on December 27th, 2003. I had a 96 3100 with 90000km installed. I picked up the car as they were closing on December 31st. By the time I was halfway home, it started overheating and running rough (shop was closed and deserted for the holidays when I went back). Took it back the next day they were open and they diagnosed a leaking front head gasket, which they repaired under warranty. While they were in there that far, I asked them to replace the rear head gasket as well at my cost. The car ran fine for the rest of the year. So of course, this past winter, it started doing the exact same damn thing as the first engine! I changed the oil last weekend and it was disgusting. The PCV looks good, vaccum is good, the EGR isn't clogged open. WTF could be causing this? Here's something else I noticed. When I remove the oil filler cap while the car is running, I don't see any oil splashing around. I can see some oil, it just doesn't look like it's moving, even when I rev it up to 2 or 3k. When I tried this on my previous vehicle, a Plymouth Sundance, there was oil splashing around all over the place in there. So what gives? I'd really, really appreciate some insight. We're probably going to trade the vehicle anyway as we've added another kid to the family and need more room, but I don't necessarily feel good about passing this headache on to somebody else. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 So do you have a pressure gauge or idiot light? I would suspect the oil galleys are plugged with shit as you said it was slammed full of sludge. If you have no lubrication...you have a high friction/high heat engine which would explain the overheating issue. I would suggest a full teardown and hottank all parts to get the shit out of the galleys. Then again if you are starving the engine of oil to certain areas the engine would need a full teardown and rebuild anyway... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlLuminator Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 The low oil pressure ("idiot light") doesn't come on (and no, the light isn't burnt out...). The sludge/crud was in the original 97 3100, which has since been replaced with a 96 3100 (now has a total of 100000km on it). The 96 3100 overheated when the installed it because it had a bad head gasket but hasn't overheated since they repaired the head gaskets. Coolant level has been stable since the head gaskets were done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsmoBeast Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 I'm not sure about your problem...but when I open my oil cap on my 97 3100, i never see any oil either.... maybe its a 3100 thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlLuminator Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Thanks OldsmoBeast, maybe it's just "normal" for 3100s to not have oil gushing all over the place and I'm being paranoid about that part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldsmoBeast Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 well, considering your oil cap is on the rocker cover... maybe its not so absurd.... but then again, what do I know... Seems like you're the real expert here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlLuminator Posted April 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 What's with the (not so) veiled insult? In my last car, oil _was_ gushing around the rockers so it struck me as unusual that this wasn't the case on the 3100, so I brought it up. Maybe the rockers don't need that much lubrication. If it's the same on yours and yours runs fine, then I'll assume it's a red herring and move on. Thanks anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 The sludge/crud was in the original 97 3100, which has since been replaced with a 96 3100 (now has a total of 100000km on it). ooops sorry missed that part. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted April 10, 2005 Report Share Posted April 10, 2005 Here's something else I noticed. When I remove the oil filler cap while the car is running, I don't see any oil splashing around. I can see some oil, it just doesn't look like it's moving, even when I rev it up to 2 or 3k. When I tried this on my previous vehicle, a Plymouth Sundance, there was oil splashing around all over the place in there. So what gives? Thanks! the 2.2 in my Lebaron GTS (much like your Sundance i assume) has alot of oil being flung around under the valve/rocker cover...probably because of the SOHCamshaft in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 what sucks is the engine you had installed had the blown gasket. Who knows how long it was driven like that, and more than likely it was neglected. Once there's that much sludge in there, hopes for trouble-free high mileage isn't as high. If you can trade it in now, do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 you could try running a quart of rissiol (sp?) through it, or any of those oil additive detergents. we've used it at work and it seems to work prety good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted April 11, 2005 Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 yeah try like 2 bottles of engine flush for half an hour at 3000RPM (okay maybe not that long) hopefully that would help clean out any crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlLuminator Posted April 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2005 Thanks for all of the suggestions. The parts that are visible through the oil filler cap seem nice and "clean" but maybe that doesn't mean much. I've been running 3 parts regular dino oil and 1 part Mobil 1 as I read somewhere that synthetics "dislodge" more crud than regular oil so maybe what I saw in the last oil drain was simply the oil doing its job (then again, maybe that's just a crock?). In any case, we've decided to trade it in on a minivan, three kids and all (so far :bawl: ). To add the icing to the cake, my wife filled up the car last week and gas started leaking from the top of the tank :shock:. I assume that it's just a seal but I didn't feel like dropping the tank while it was full (nor do I have enough cans to siphon 60L of fuel into ). Maybe I should replace the fuel level sending unit, which hasn't worked in 4 years, while I'm in there. I doubt that would change the trade-in value though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White93z34 Posted April 12, 2005 Report Share Posted April 12, 2005 well mixing synthetics and regular oils may have been the cause of that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlLuminator Posted April 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 14, 2005 Maybe with previous generation synthetics but new synthetics are supposed to be compatible with dino oil (they do sell synthetic blends, dont' they?). Besides, the first engine sludged itself to hell before I starting blending synthetics in with my oil. Who knows, you could be right though. There's no synthetic in it this time around so I guess the theory will be tested. (Un)fortunately, I'm not going to own it long enough to find out as I'm trading it in tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlLuminator Posted April 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2005 So long Lumina. Thanks for the memories. Could have done without the repair bills though :oops: Probably the last GM I'll own for a long time... http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=115#GMV6 :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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