dbtk2 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 So, for the last two days I have been putting Comp 1.6 rockers in my Lumina. I put in the ground down guideplates and the other studs, and I tighted all the rocker down so they didn't have slack and then a half turn. When I start it up it misses really bad like some of the valves either aren't opening or aren't closing all the way. I pulled the front valve cover and re-tightened those but it didn't get any better, so its gotta be on the rear. Am I doing something wrong? I really gotta drive this car. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Did you only set them with the valves closed? You can't just go down the line and set them since the cam will be holding some of the valves open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Did you only set them with the valves closed? You can't just go down the line and set them since the cam will be holding some of the valves open. I turned the engine over so that I was tightening them with the valves closed. I've put rockers on engines many times and never had a problem like this...I just don't get it. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twalt13 Posted March 13, 2005 Report Share Posted March 13, 2005 Shawn, Dont take this personally, but did you clean out the rocker pedastool hole with a q-tip first so you are not getting hydro lock and the pedastool moving. Two members of my RMCGP club did this with their rockers on the L67's and that was the peoblem. I like the 1:6 on my TGP and noticed a top end improvment. Thomas (P.S. how are the nuckles on your right hand - cut the crap put of my doing the install (turning the engine)) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Yes, I did clean out the holes. None of them had anything but dirt in them, but better safe than sorry. Like I said I've done this a few times, which is why I am stumped as to why I'm having problems. I'm pretty sure the problem is that one or more of the rears is too tight causing the valve to stay open a little all the time, but how can I prevent that from happening? If I go much looser, I'm afraid they might not stay tight. (obviously causing problems) If I loosen them up, I'm thinking it will fix the problem (haven't got a chance to do so yet as I have been at work most of the day), but how do I keep them from loosening up. They just don't seem tight enough at 1/4 turn past zero lash IMO. I'll try it and see, but can anyone think of anything else I could've done wrong. I appreciate you asking about cleaning out the holes, as that could easily cause the problem if I didn't know better, I wouldn't ever take it personally, that is a very logical solution. I'm gonna tear it apart after school tommarow and loosen up the rears to like a 1/4 turn past zero lash and see if that helps, if it doesn't I don't know what to do. Thanks, Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twalt13 Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 Shawn, To be honest with you when I do my 3400 top end swap I plan on selling those comp cams rockers , very hard to "dial in" Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted March 14, 2005 Report Share Posted March 14, 2005 How long did you have it running? When I did mine on my other car, the lifters needed a few minutes to pump up, or "adjust", it ran smooth after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I didn't let it run very long because it was running really shitty, it was obvious there was a problem. Not like the lifters needed to be pumped up, like valves were open. I went back and loosened up all the rocker arms and then tightened them up to 1/4 turn past zero lash and its missing on at least 1 cyl, maybe like 2-3. It idles okay, but there is a slight miss, when you rev it up it revs okay, but if the idle starts dropping down to normal idle (I would guess like 800rpm on this car...tach is WAY off) it starts running rougher, and if I put the car in gear it is quite obvious its missing. So there is a loose or tight rocker arm somewhere. (I'm guessing loose because it seemed to get worse as the car ran longer) I'm getting really sick of this, because I really need something to drive. I would be able to drive the STE but since I've had no car I haven't been able to go to the tranny shop to get the car and put my battery back in the car along with my boost gauge (there is a vacuum leak right now 'cause i took it out and left the vacuum lines alone). I haven't talked to them but the tranny was supposed to be done Sunday, so I would imagine its probably close to done if not already done now. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futuretgper Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 i know this isn't advised but it is possible to "tune" them while your car is running....don't ask me on exact proceedure but it does work for my dads friend who has built a number a engines up in the last couple years....read up on it and try that.....cause its prob the most accurate (least amount of guessing) way to dial in some rockers...only problem is it can get messy. ps don't take my opionion and run with it, haha make sure im not missing something! (like our specific engines will not like this type of prcedure or it isn't possible) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 I have been kinda tuning it with it running. I don't want to clean up all the oil because it is fairly clean under the hood, so I've been letting it run and then shut it off and loosen/tighten the rockers that sound like they need to be adjusted and then start it back up and try again, but its a pita. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoTox8410 Posted March 15, 2005 Report Share Posted March 15, 2005 they sell things that plug up the holes that spray oil all over the place...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I started it up without the rear cover on, with just a towel on the firewall to prevent too much of a mess, and one of the valves was barely opening at all. I know it was opening all the way when I tried it before I started it up the first time, so it is obviously too loose. I am working on tightening that and all the rears again right now, I'm just taking a break. Hopefully it will run better. More soon! Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futuretgper Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 b4 u do anything else make sure u didn't forget to rehang the fuzy dice from your mirror....that always works for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 I re-tightened all the rears once again. The one that wasn't opening all the way now is, but it still doesn't seem to be running any better. I tried to just pull the plug wires one at a time to see which wire made the least difference when I pulled it, but that didn't help either. I'm starting to get really pissed. I started this damn thing on Friday!!! I'm half tempted to just put it back to stock, but that would REALLY piss me off, having it apart 5 days and having there not be any difference after all that work. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Well, I figured out part of my problem after doing some further inspecting because I ran out of ideas. The #6 cyl. had the pushrods switched on it. :oops: So I took those rockers off and switched those pushrods and put the rockers back on, but it didn't seem to run any better (although I didn't have it running very long) so I'm gonna have to do more inspecting. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GP1138 Posted March 16, 2005 Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Well, I figured out part of my problem after doing some further inspecting because I ran out of ideas. The #6 cyl. had the pushrods switched on it. :oops: So I took those rockers off and switched those pushrods and put the rockers back on, but it didn't seem to run any better (although I didn't have it running very long) so I'm gonna have to do more inspecting. Shawn Um... that's not supposed to be good for the motor... I think that pretty much fux0rs the longer pushrod, in fact.... don't take my word for it, but that's just what I heard.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2005 Obviously its not good for the engine...thats a given. But the pushrods weren't damaged in any way that I could see so it should be fine now that they are right. Unless of course it somehow damaged the lifter, which I don't know how it would've done that. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 If the pushrods were switched, there's a very good chance the intake valve hit the piston and bent the valve. A mechanic at my job did this to a 3100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 If the pushrods were switched, there's a very good chance the intake valve hit the piston and bent the valve. A mechanic at my job did this to a 3100. That couldn't have happened though because the amount it would raise up would still be the same because you don't tighten these rockers down all the way (which is part of the problem I was having in the first place), you tighten them until the rocker sits snug on the valve spring and then a 1/2 turn. So the valve would still open the same amount. I figured out the problem and now the car runs great! After I switched the pushrods it ran shitty because the exhaust pushrod wasn't on the lifter. It was sitting in a crevice in the intake manifold apparantly and this was the one time I was too anxious to turn the engine over by hand first to notice the problem. But I got it seated properly on the lifter, tightened everything back down. Put the valve covers, coolant pipe, alternator, boost controller, air filter, negative battery cable back on and took it for a drive. She runs good, still idles shitty but that is due to stock crossover, rockers can't fix that. However, it doesn't seem to run any better than it did before. It could just be that I've been driving my dads TGP coupe so it doesn't feel as quick as that. But so far I'm not impressed. I'll report back after I have more than 5 miles on them though. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 So, you switched the pushrods and that's why it wasn't running right. I was thinking of getting some 1.6s for my TGP, but I'm not sure if it's worth the trouble. Plus, I think I might be selling the TGP this summer as I really want to get a turbo setup on my GTX. Anyways, good to see you got her running again. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Yeah, pushrods. Stupid mistake...completely my fault, but I figured it out and got her running good. Just got back from the car wash in the Euro, took the long way home, I would say now that its definately quicker. It didn't do bad before the rockers, it definately had no problem turning the tires over, but now from a 15mph roll it leaves a 20ft. patch on the road and pulls a lot harder over an indicated 7500rpm. (really probably 4500rpm and up, tach is WAY off) Before it would've probably only chirped the tires from a 15mph roll. Turbo on the GTX eh? That would be badass. However, I would recommend a tranny upgrade first if you plan on driving it daily. If you did that it would sure be a fun car! My dad put an XP cam in his GTP two weeks ago, and we just tuned it friday and it doesn't feel any faster on the topend and it lost lowend torque. He is NOT impressed. He is gonna take it to the dyno and track to see if it did make a difference, but it sure doesn't feel like much of a difference. And it didn't kill ANY KR. With the stock cam he could run a 2.6 pulley and 2* added timing. So with the XP we started off at 4* added timing and it was getting 2kr. It might be quicker since it will break the Eagle F1's loose at 60mph though. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
futuretgper Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 do u think ull be able to notice a differnence between these rockers and the stock rockers u put on with the 3100 swap...cause weren't they 1.6s too?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted March 17, 2005 Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 Yeah, it all depends on what I can get for the TGP. I wanted to get one more track season in with the TGP because I know it has a 14.4-14.5 in it. I'm so torn with what to do, as I know the GTX has so much more potential than the TGP. Oh well, I guess I'll figure it out once some more turbo kits come out for the L36/L67s. 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbtk2 Posted March 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2005 do u think ull be able to notice a differnence between these rockers and the stock rockers u put on with the 3100 swap...cause weren't they 1.6s too?? This might have not been clear, so I'm gonna make sure you are understanding this right, these went in the Lumina not the STE. Also, the rockers in the STE are 1.5's because they are the stock 3.1 rockers, not the 3100 rockers, because the 3100 rockers I have are from the '97 3100 I got my intakes from, but the heads I used were from a '95 (never had that engine, just bought the heads), so they didn't have the provisions for the roller fulcrum rockers. But due to the cam it still has pretty decent lift. (.427" intake/.454" exhaust) I don't think I will be putting 1.6 rockers in the STE because first off its a PITA, second I already tried to once and one of my valve cover bolts has the head stripped off and I didn't feel like messing with it, and third its pretty damn quick already, and since the new tranny is just a stock rebuild I don't want to put any more stress on it. Not only that, but I'm not sure exactly what it has for valve seals so it might not be able to handle that much lift. What are you looking to get out of the TGP Josh? I'm sure I can't afford what you want for it, but I may be interested in the fall or something if thats when your thinking about selling it. Let me know before you get rid of it, as I would definately not mind having a 5 speed LG5 to add to the collection. I might be running the Lumina at the track for a couple runs just to see what it'll do, but I'm not sure yet. I'm gonna throw an FFP UD pulley on it, along with removing the cat, and I think that'll be it. But it should be good for 14.5's or so with a good launch and about 12psi boost. Oh yeah, is there a boost cut on this chip in the Lumina...and if so what is it? Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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