Odd key question..

[GnatGoSplat]

Good post, WhiteMonte!

Just curious, did 9C1/9C3 Luminas have a bidirectional key too?

Do 94-up W-bodies with airbag have that sector gear you speak of? In 94 they went back to the small key with ears on the cylinder.

[DiscoStudd]

IIRC, the 9C3's had the normal "small square key with the ears on the lock cylinder" only they didn't have the VATS reader in the ignition lock cylinder.

 

I guess you could swap in a 94-96 "saginaw" column and swap out the ignition lock cylinder for one from a Lumina 9C3 (non-VATS) so then you could get a matching set for the doors, trunk, and ignition (the 95-01 Luminas have what appear to be the same lock cylinders that the older 4-door Luminas.)

 

I'd be willing to bet that a pre-73 ignition lock cylinder would mount in a 94-96 "saginaw" column perfectly, and if the door lock cylinders are the same, there ya go...

[WhiteMonteZZZ]

IIRC, the 9C3's had the normal "small square key with the ears on the lock cylinder" only they didn't have the VATS reader in the ignition lock cylinder.

 

I guess you could swap in a 94-96 "saginaw" column and swap out the ignition lock cylinder for one from a Lumina 9C3 (non-VATS) so then you could get a matching set for the doors, trunk, and ignition (the 95-01 Luminas have what appear to be the same lock cylinders that the older 4-door Luminas.)

 

I'd be willing to bet that a pre-73 ignition lock cylinder would mount in a 94-96 "saginaw" column perfectly, and if the door lock cylinders are the same, there ya go...

 

More info from yours truly:

Pre-78 lock cylinders were clip-in, Post 78 thru 9c1/9c3 were BOLT IN, just like the VATS cylinders in the 95+ MC/Lumies. The 95 lumina has a COMPLETELY different lock cyl from the older luminas. 9c1/9c3 used the round door key to start the car (in the "square" ignition).

Sector gear locks: I don't have the cat. w/me right now, but the ones I can think of are Caddy Allante (square head key, vats blank minus the chip), and there WAS IIRC a double-sided key w/a sector gear ign. But you'd only be able to use it provided you can rig up the door locks to fit. The locks themselves are different in how they all mount up. The only other thing I can think of being a problem is the difference in the face caps for the ignition locks - those w/ and those w/o ears. The diameters of the faces may be different, either leaving room around the ign to get into the column, or it not being wide enough (the column, that is) to fully seat the ignition lock. If I get a chance when i'm home from work tonight I'll dig out my cats and see if I can find a listing of Sector Gear ign locks. From gut instinct though, they're not a direct fit/swap, one way or another.

 

WMZZZ

[WhiteMonteZZZ]

Also just thinking out loud, I don't know how you'd go about acquiring a fleet-key ignition from GM. GM only used a few fleet key codes (thats why if you have a 9c1 caprice, your key will start probably 60-80 percent of ex-cop gm vehicles w/the same key system). Someone at MyMonte has a fleet lumina, and his key will start his brother or cousin's 9c1 caprice. The cars came from different jurisdictions. You can order the fleetkey ignition locks uncoded from Strattec if I recall, but then you'd have to find a locksmith who can code it accordingly. You early genners have either a 'D' or 'H' keyway for your stock door keys. So if you could manage to use the fleet ignition lock, you'd have to get an oval gm door key on the correct blank (not the 4-5 sided w-body blank...btw anyone know why w's were the only cars with the retarded shaped door keys?) and have the ign coded to it. But again, taht's if you can swap the 95-01 Lumina or 95-99 Monte, 94(?)-?? gp, or 94(?)-?? cutlass columns in.

 

WMZZZ

[Dirty Rockstar]

Fuck it, I'll build my own steering column!

 

[WhiteMonteZZZ]

Nutha thing:

Looking thru cardomain, how hard would this be, gurus?

Those of you w/the 2 key system (all of you? lol). You guys have the 'D' or 'H' (depending on year) door blanks. How hard would the 94+ gp, cutlass, 95+ chevy column swap be? This would be easier than the 97+ gp swap, at least should be, as the later gen1s had this column. Should be more or less switching columns. Everything else theoretically shoudl bolt up. Then just find the fleet ign SOMEHOW (not being a real locksmith, my company I used to use can't sell me ignition locks anymore, else I coulda supplied fleet locks to you guys). Or find the fleet ign UNCODED (dealer or GMPD MAY be able to sell it, maybe say you have a used 9c1/9c3?) and then get it coded to your keys at your local dealer/automotive locksmith. Obviously a lot more work than finding a direct-swap cylinder, but less work than custom-fabbing double-cut door locks into existing locations, etc.

 

WMZZZ

[DiscoStudd]

FYI, the "keyway" on all 3 of my cars' door locks are "H" (and if you get the keys copied at Wally World, they use the standard "oval" blanks, btw.) I think it was "stockgp" who put a 97 Cutty steering column in a 90 GP, and he said he had to modify the dash's cross-brace slightly to get the bolt holes to line up properly. It didn't sound like it was that big of a deal, just a matter of drilling a couple of holes and it bolted right up.

 

You say the pre-78 columns had a clip that held the lock cylinder in place? I suppose the switch to the bolt-in cylinders coincided with the switch over to plastic (instead of pot metal) for the column's housing...

[Dirty Rockstar]

Hmmm.. I think I am going to be all over a Cutty column then.. A place to start anyway to build my own..

[DiscoStudd]

Actually any Gen 1 and 1.5 W-Body column would work, not just one from a Cutty ...

[GnatGoSplat]

I think I'll continue to explore the 97-03 column swap possibility. I'm not just happy with one key for every lock, I want the bidirectional keys.

[Dirty Rockstar]

[WhiteMonteZZZ]

D keyblank was used up until 1991ish, and H was used from 92ish on.

 

WMZZZ

[GnatGoSplat]

Well, I finally got ahold of a 97-03 column (out of a 99 GP).

It won't fit an 88-96. The bottom end is exactly the same as the one in my 89 (and probably 94), but the upper mount is different. The bolt holes on a gen 1 W is much wider. The 89 I think was even wider than the 94, but both were well over an inch wider than the 97. The 97 mount is also higher. The mounting bracket is completely above the column while a gen 1 W has the mounting ears are approximately centered on the column. Even if it could bolt up, the column would be a couple inches too low.

 

It might be possible to cut off the upper steering column mounts from both columns and weld the gen 1 onto the gen 2 column tube. It looks like it would be a relatively simple procedure, but probably not worth the effort just for bidirectional keys and a more reliable turn signal switch. It would definitely be necessary to fabricate a custom plastic shroud for it to look factory.

[DiscoStudd]

Did you see if the ignition/wiper/signal bulkhead connector would plug right up to either the 89 or 94? That's probably a whole other issue in and of itself...

[digitaloutsider]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care that my car requires two keys?

[supreme_style21]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care that my car requires two keys?

 

:withstupid:

 

Although I always get excited when I find out its possible to swap shit between all the various models. Sad, isn't it.

[GnatGoSplat]

Did you see if the ignition/wiper/signal bulkhead connector would plug right up to either the 89 or 94? That's probably a whole other issue in and of itself...

 

It looks the same, I think it will plug right up. Only problem is the pins are arranged differently. The wire colors don't match, so I wasn't brave enough to plug it in. It should be easy enough to rearrange.

 

Am I the only one who really doesn't care that my car requires two keys?

 

I don't know why I care, I use keyless entry so I only use 1 key anyway. The 1-way key and 2-keys is just so old fashioned... every other car company dropped that design in the early/mid 80's. It's just nice to be able to have a small update, but that small update requires big work so I'm going to move on.

 

The signal switch IS a much better design though. It looks to be self contained into a turn signal module. Very similar to the 86 Mercury Sable I used to have. I considered swapping in the column just to get that, since my turn signal switch is now messing up a bit.

 

I'm going to wait till I can get a power tilt/telescope column out of a G6 or late model Cadillac before bothering to spend much time on a column swap. That would require me to install a dash-mounted ignition switch, but that in itself might be a cool idea.

[luminator94]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care that my car requires two keys?

 

Yeah, really! I look at it this way in the Bonne. There's nothing worth stealing in it anyways, so I don't lock it. If somebody wants to steal my Delco Cassette player with missing buttons, be my guest! It will give me a reason to finally put a CD player in the Bonne. All my other vehicles have keyless entry, so it works out good.

 

Aaron

[DiscoStudd]

That would require me to install a dash-mounted ignition switch, but that in itself might be a cool idea.

Both of my new cars have the dash-mounted ignition switch, and it was kinda trippy the first couple of times getting into the car and not reaching for the column to start the car. It's actually grown on me now, and I do say it was a cool idea for GM to go back to the dash-mounted ignition switch . From the pics of the 06 Impala, it looks like their going back to a column-mounted ignition switch (in fact, the column looks like a 97-03 GP column.)

[HokemBokem]

Am I the only one who really doesn't care that my car requires two keys?

 

 

No theres me also.

 

 

 

Who could give a flying fuck.

[widetrak95]

I don't mind having two keys myself, but I never use my round key, always keyless entry. The other 3 GM cars in my driveway are newer with one key but I never use the key in the doors anyway. I do keep a spare door key in my wallet in case I lock my engine key in the car, but if I loose my keys all together, I can get in but I'm not going anywhere I guess.