skalor Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 I was comparing my timeslips the other day and I noticed something that I thought I should share. My best 1/4 mile time when my car was auto was a 14.629 @ 95.17 with a 9.330 1/8 mile time. Now, my best 5 speed time is a 14.643 @ 96.89 with a 9.545 1/8 mile time. That means that I ran a very similar time with an 1/8 time that was 2/10 slower!! :shock: Auto: http://www.gmv6.org/images/5-18-03.jpg 5 speed: http://www.gmv6.org/images/11-14-04.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted December 5, 2004 Report Share Posted December 5, 2004 Manual verses auto: The automatic tranny torque converter is a fluid coupler that works like a fan blowing transmission fluid into a turbine, which causes the turbine to turn. Vanes that direct this fluid back out of the turbine and into the fan again effectively multiplies the engines torque at low speeds, until the two elements are lock together (torque converter lock-up). Manual is just a friction disc that clamps against a steel flywheel to transmit the engine torque to the tranny. At launch, hold out and feather the clutch for traction or let the torque converter do it for you with no wear! When you feather the clutch in any manual tranny car you are trying to achieve a balance between wheel spin and engine bog, at the cost of slip-baking the clutch material in this manual tranny, not really the best but no choice otherwise! In an auto you can let the torque converter allow the necessary slipping to control traction and maximize traction and launch. AND use the throttle too without fear of bogging the motor. And the torque converter does not mind doing the slipping where as the manual heats up and wears/glazes. The torque converter also does some cushioning for your tranny from the power slams when taking off where as the manual sends the full force power shock through the entire drivetrain! If you have a large turbo, no building boost with a manual, only an auto will allow this. And you can dial a torque converter stall speed purchase to match the preferred turbo spool-up where as the manual has no ability to do this at all. So in conclusion, a manual clutch consumes no power; but they cannot multiply torque like a torque converter, and the manual will incur considerable wear during an aggressive launch where as the torque converter is right there ready to serve, and can be matched to help a larger turbo spool-up. This was something I pulled from a magazine, and added some extra "applied" info. To apply this to your time slips (assuming your auto is in good condition for this comparison :shock: ) some of that would be the TC adding its multiplier making up for some of the lose internally to drive an auto tranny, maybe some ability as well in controlling your launch which does show with your manual having a 2.258 60-foot and the auto having a 2.129. But I am sure there are many that have 60-foot numbers all over the place with their auto and manual that might not agree but since you are the same driver in both cars, feel you are a more consistent factor in these results! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted December 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 But I am sure there are many that have 60-foot numbers all over the place with their auto and manual that might not agree but since you are the same driver in both cars, feel you are a more consistent factor in these results!Jeff M Just in case you don't realize this, but it's the same car in both those timeslips. The only mod that I didn't have when it was auto was the BOV, and really worn struts. I've always found it true that for every 1/10 you lose on the 60', you lose 2/10 in the 1/4 mile. If I could run a 2.1 with the 5 speed I could be seeing a 14.5 or even a 14.4. 8) I guess I'll have to wait for next year to see. :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted December 6, 2004 Report Share Posted December 6, 2004 16.08, 16.12, 16.22 with Auto... 15.3, 15.5, 16.2 = first time I launched the car with the new 5-speed... :oops: Now I learned very quickly, but not before my times at the track how to power brake the 5-speed to get spool right from the get go. I am sure I would have dropped another .3-.5 from my 1/4 mile time with that launch. Now drop the times to the 6000' handicap and cooler temps (was 80* and high humidity) and would have seen low 14's... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wills Fiero Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 FYI... Turbo Trans Ams were found to be significantly faster at the drag strip with autos than manuals. Your slower 1/8 mile time is prolly the result of having to shift twice in the 1/8 mile, both times dumping boost/energy and having to respool. The car makes it up in the fast half of the track because you have longer gears than in the 1/8, less shifting and less driveline loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 FYI... Turbo Trans Ams were found to be significantly faster at the drag strip with autos than manuals. So did a few of the converted Grand Nationals. I guess I just know how to shift a frikkin car! 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 15.3, 15.5, 16.2 = first time I launched the car with the new 5-speed... :oops: Where were those at? PMI? If so I find it weird that my car(In the same setup as it was when I got beat by your japfour), ran a 15.2. So even after my rebuild, and the headers, I could barely beat your TGP. But then again, your TGP beat me quite easily back then. So your TGP would've been pretty close to your dsm no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 15.3, 15.5, 16.2 = first time I launched the car with the new 5-speed... :oops: Where were those at? PMI? If so I find it weird that my car(In the same setup as it was when I got beat by your japfour), ran a 15.2. So even after my rebuild, and the headers, I could barely beat your TGP. But then again, your TGP beat me quite easily back then. So your TGP would've been pretty close to your dsm no? No that was at Bandimere on a very hot day. Have the slips if you want to see...will need to scan them again. In the TGP I would launch very hard...5000 RPM clutch draws (not drop). In the DSM I was maybe 3500-4000 RPM cause I was babying the drivetrain. If I could launch the DSM properly it would be a whole different story and video my friend!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 30, 2004 Report Share Posted December 30, 2004 Yah I wish I could run at Bandi. I would have broken into the high 14s for sure. Lower than PMI, a world of difference with traction, and a level track Whole different story than PMI. I believe you, I was just saying that a 15.3 at this alitutde is pretty good. At PMI, I was dropping the clutch from about 5,000rpm in the groove. They would spin until about 4500rpm, then catch, hop a couple times, then grab. Much better thann on the street, but still not great. I bet at Bandi I could've dropped it from 7. Hell when RedZMonte ran his 14.3 in his L67 Lumina at Bandi, it could BARELY chirp them off the line. I don't draw my clutch, becuz the Z34 has a problem eating clutches, kjust like DSMs only a DSM performance clutch cots hundreds less than my Z34s stocker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twalt13 Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 I was there when RedZMonte ran 14.3..........he has an auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Yah I was just saying, cuz on the street that L67 Z34 couldn't hold the tires on the ground through first, and all but lit them up in 2nd. I was amazed, it ran awesome. Almost made me want to buy a L67, but then I drove my Z and I got back into Z34s That car was pretty cool, too bad it was left in pieces and half put together all over. I sure hope he found time for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 Bandimere uses that chemical for traction. I saw 3 guys drop either a tranny or a rear-end before I went. I was scared to death of blowing my tranny so I was very nice to it coming off the line on all three of my runs. Now if I had trailered it up there I would not have given a shit and dropped the clutch at 5k RPM. I have had to walk/bum rides home before and it is more embarassing than getting a shitty time IMHO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted December 31, 2004 Report Share Posted December 31, 2004 I agree. I always make sure I go with a few friends when i go to the track, just in case. But I have never had a problem in any of my cars at the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 I bet you powershift TGPilot..thats the only way I see you pull those numbers. That and not reving it to hell on fist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted January 8, 2005 Report Share Posted January 8, 2005 I bet you powershift TGPilot..thats the only way I see you pull those numbers. That and not reving it to hell on fist. Powershifting without a rev limiter is just crazy talk!! The secret to that car or any other TGP with a manual is not reving to redline until you shift to the next gear. The TGP motors with the T-25 and stock intake/heads will run out of breath up in the high RPMs. Keep it in the torque curve and it will pull you all the way down the track. Now with a better turbo, better flowing intake and heads, and better flowing exhaust I am sure you could pull all the way to redline...but not on the stock motor configuration... 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted January 9, 2005 Report Share Posted January 9, 2005 Having ridden in the car, and getting beat, and beating it, I can say that power falls off after 5,000rpm, and literally stops after 5500. But up to this point, crazy mad torque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted January 10, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 I shift around 5300, but she pulls pretty good until 5500. If you don't believe me look at my dyno graph. Then again I did port the turbine housing so that might affect topend flow. Well, that's what's I was hoping for anyways. http://www.gmv6.org/images/TGPdyno2.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Well as it has been said many times...no two cars are the same. I know that my old TGP would fall on it's face after 5000 RPM. It is very possible that I screwed up the top end of the chip and it is cutting timing or fuel too much. :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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