Driving in cold: sheer 6-year-long despair

[Oldsmobile Desperado]

I'm posting in this forum out of despair. It had been 6 years of misery, while driving my 1988 Olds during cold winters.

 

The colder the night was, the lower will be the speed on which the car would start choking, jerking, shuddering and stalling. The longer I drive during morning, the higher is the speed I can climb to, until, as if something warmed enough inside, the problem disappears, and I can drive the rest of the day until next cold night.

 

It was raining today, and I couldn't make it go above 15 mph. During summer time it gets better, as I would hit that zone as high as at 65mph, so I'm at least able to get to the highway, and drive there for 5-10 minutes, before switching to the left lanes.

 

Now, the oddity of this problem is that it was completely not affected by the following:

 

* replacement of the engine

* rebuild of transmission

* repairs in the fuel system (new pump, fuel filters, injectors, checks for pressure)

* repairs in the ignition system (new ICM, plugs, high-voltage wires, trying a different coil pack)

* changing 3 different MAF sensors, O2 sensor, Engine Coolant sensor

* changing crankshaft, camshaft sensors, rewiring

* IAC motor & valve repairs

* new cathalytic converter

 

Latest meachanic checked all typical spots he knew and said that while everything works in accordance with the specs, he can't figure it out altogether.

 

He checked:

* delivery system

* idle speed

* EFE system including thermo air cleaner

* EGR system

* individual cylinder condition

* primary & secondary ignition circuits

* dwell

* base timing & timing advance

 

And nothing!

 

Any thought, hints, ideas, similar experience would be highly appreciated.

Imagine yourself barely running at 15mph after a frosty night, and you'll feel the pain.

 

And aside from this problem, the car runs fine.

That's the only problem I have, and it's very temperature-sensitive.

[Oldsmobile Desperado]

Welcome To the Forum!!!

 

 

Your location says, Southern CA = Southern California Correct...?

 

How Cold Can It Get There in Winter...?

 

Is there a temprature range where this problem occures?

 

It's really cold here this winter (comparatively).

 

This winter it's getting 40F and I'm getting 15mph

Last winter it was better, probably around 50F and I was getting 35mph

 

It must be somewhere close to 90F, for me not to hit it.

 

This is one stable feature, persisting for as long as I own the beast.

[pitzel]

I don't see a new ECU in that laundry list. In these cars, the ICM and the ECU are seperate units.

 

My mother's 1990-ish H-body car had the ECU go bezerk, and it was temperature-dependant.

[Oldsmobile Desperado]

I don't see a new ECU in that laundry list. In these cars, the ICM and the ECU are seperate units.

 

My mother's 1990-ish H-body car had the ECU go bezerk, and it was temperature-dependant.

 

My current ECU is an after-market, and I inherited it from the prev. owner.

The car acts like described only with that odd warmup during low temperatures.

 

There are no other idications to an odd behaviour with the ECU. Does it still make sense?

 

What was the reason your mother's car was advised to lose the unit? Because so far none of the shops mentioned it to me.

 

 

Separate question:

What kind of problem is icing of throttle body? Did anyone encounter this?

[sl3196]

40* is cold? It is 40* right now and it is warm to me.

 

Aftermarket ecu?

[GPRACER]

40* is cold? It is 40* right now and it is warm to me.

 

Aftermarket ecu?

 

yeah, that's pretty funny. I've seen -40 here with the wind chill. If you don't plug in the block heater it's not gonna start.

[pitzel]

[quote="Oldsmobile Desperado

What was the reason your mother's car was advised to lose the unit? Because so far none of the shops mentioned it to me.

 

Separate question:

What kind of problem is icing of throttle body? Did anyone encounter this?

 

ECU was replaced as a last-ditch measure of desperation -- the shops couldn't find anything else to replace or test in the car, so we went to the junkyard, paid $50 for an ECU, swapped the MEM-CAL's, and miraculously the car worked fine thereafter.

 

Throttle body icing shouldn't be a problem if those cooling water lines are properly connected.

[pitzel]

40* is cold? It is 40* right now and it is warm to me.

 

Aftermarket ecu?

 

yeah, that's pretty funny. I've seen -40 here with the wind chill. If you don't plug in the block heater it's not gonna start.

 

My 1992 starts just fine at -40C without the block heater. Takes a crank or two to 'catch' though.

[Oldsmobile Desperado]

40* is cold? It is 40* right now and it is warm to me.

 

Aftermarket ecu?

 

For what I read, an aftermarket ECU is simply a computer that was pulled out of some car for whatever reason, and then run through a full diag to make sure it responded properly.

 

The GM dealer said that it was an aftermarket, but they didn't mention that they recommended a replacement. That's all I know.

 

Yes, 40 is low for us, SoCA wussies. But keep in mind that we don't even own sweaters & coats, like you probably do!

[GPRACER]

40* is cold? It is 40* right now and it is warm to me.

 

Aftermarket ecu?

 

yeah, that's pretty funny. I've seen -40 here with the wind chill. If you don't plug in the block heater it's not gonna start.

 

My 1992 starts just fine at -40C without the block heater. Takes a crank or two to 'catch' though.

 

yeah, dry prairie cold, try damp maritime cold, it's a bitch!

[MonteCarloChick]

yeah, dry prairie cold, try damp maritime cold, it's a bitch!

I WISH it were 40 right now. Good luck with your car........

[skiiirt]

haha 40 hahahaha

try a nice 10 degrees + windchill

 

california pussies

 

if i didnt plug my block heater in i may as well be taking the bus

[Canada]

Do you replace all the fuses?

[CuttySup]

Now, the oddity of this problem is that it was completely not affected by the following:

 

* replacement of the engine

* rebuild of transmission

* repairs in the fuel system (new pump, fuel filters, injectors, checks for pressure)

* repairs in the ignition system (new ICM, plugs, high-voltage wires, trying a different coil pack)

* changing 3 different MAF sensors, O2 sensor, Engine Coolant sensor

* changing crankshaft, camshaft sensors, rewiring

* IAC motor & valve repairs

* new cathalytic converter

 

Latest meachanic checked all typical spots he knew and said that while everything works in accordance with the specs, he can't figure it out altogether.

 

He checked:

* delivery system

* idle speed

* EFE system including thermo air cleaner

* EGR system

* individual cylinder condition

* primary & secondary ignition circuits

* dwell

* base timing & timing advance

 

And nothing!

 

Any thought, hints, ideas, similar experience would be highly appreciated.

Imagine yourself barely running at 15mph after a frosty night, and you'll feel the pain.

 

And aside from this problem, the car runs fine.

That's the only problem I have, and it's very temperature-sensitive.

Have you considered buying a new car. For all the work you've done and time you've spent on this problem, you could've probably bought a new vehicle.

[White93z34]

what is it a 2.8/4t60 combo? those ECUs are a common as hell, i'd replace it then go from there

[93CutlassSupreme]

Now, the oddity of this problem is that it was completely not affected by the following:

 

* replacement of the engine

* rebuild of transmission

* repairs in the fuel system (new pump, fuel filters, injectors, checks for pressure)

* repairs in the ignition system (new ICM, plugs, high-voltage wires, trying a different coil pack)

* changing 3 different MAF sensors, O2 sensor, Engine Coolant sensor

* changing crankshaft, camshaft sensors, rewiring

* IAC motor & valve repairs

* new cathalytic converter

 

Latest meachanic checked all typical spots he knew and said that while everything works in accordance with the specs, he can't figure it out altogether.

 

He checked:

* delivery system

* idle speed

* EFE system including thermo air cleaner

* EGR system

* individual cylinder condition

* primary & secondary ignition circuits

* dwell

* base timing & timing advance

 

And nothing!

 

Any thought, hints, ideas, similar experience would be highly appreciated.

Imagine yourself barely running at 15mph after a frosty night, and you'll feel the pain.

 

And aside from this problem, the car runs fine.

That's the only problem I have, and it's very temperature-sensitive.

Have you considered buying a new car. For all the work you've done and time you've spent on this problem, you could've probably bought a new vehicle.

 

 

he not probably, could have bought another car

[White93z34]

most of us on here have enough invested in out cars to have bought another car...

[93CutlassSupreme]

most of us on here have enough invested in out cars to have bought another car...

 

indeed, as do i, one of the reasons i'm moving on....

[CuttySup]

Now, the oddity of this problem is that it was completely not affected by the following:

 

* replacement of the engine

* rebuild of transmission

* repairs in the fuel system (new pump, fuel filters, injectors, checks for pressure)

* repairs in the ignition system (new ICM, plugs, high-voltage wires, trying a different coil pack)

* changing 3 different MAF sensors, O2 sensor, Engine Coolant sensor

* changing crankshaft, camshaft sensors, rewiring

* IAC motor & valve repairs

* new cathalytic converter

 

Latest meachanic checked all typical spots he knew and said that while everything works in accordance with the specs, he can't figure it out altogether.

 

He checked:

* delivery system

* idle speed

* EFE system including thermo air cleaner

* EGR system

* individual cylinder condition

* primary & secondary ignition circuits

* dwell

* base timing & timing advance

 

And nothing!

 

Any thought, hints, ideas, similar experience would be highly appreciated.

Imagine yourself barely running at 15mph after a frosty night, and you'll feel the pain.

 

And aside from this problem, the car runs fine.

That's the only problem I have, and it's very temperature-sensitive.

Have you considered buying a new car. For all the work you've done and time you've spent on this problem, you could've probably bought a new vehicle.

 

 

he not probably, could have bought another car

After being on this forum and hearing about everyone else's problems, I don't think I want another W. :?

[93CutlassSupreme]

After being on this forum and hearing about everyone else's problems, I don't think I want another W. :?

 

i'll never buy another w-body after what i've been through with my CS. i'm passing on my w-body on to my brother thursday this week.

[GPXSS]

its great that everybody is helping you in this thread instead of bullshitting about Wbody quality

 

I have an 85 nissan 4x4, had these exact same symptoms that drove me mad for quite some time. I could get it up to maybe 20 - 35mph and then it would just fall on its face like the engine was cutting out. It was very speed-sensitive, didnt matter what gear I was in.

 

Ended up being the fuel pump.. it wasn't delivering enough fuel to the carb, and the fuel bowl would run dry.

What happens when you hit the speed barrier?

Does it matter if its a part throttle accel, mid throttle, or full throttle? (if anything but full throttle messes up, its your map sensor)

Can you lightly throttle it to increase speed over a long distance?

If you floor it for any amount of time, do you get to that speed or does it cut out sooner?

 

A. Either your fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator is bad, which is brought on by the cold. Check fuel line pressure on a cold morning. Try to hook up the Fuel pressure gauge so that you can drive around and watch it (put the gauge up near a windsheild wiper and let the hood latch closed but not shut all the way). Drive up to this barrier and see if you still have fuel pressure.

 

B. Check injector resistance while cold and while hot. See if these numbers differ.

 

C. Since temperature is the catalyst, you can use some type of heater to get certain areas warmer before starting the car. This will help you determine where the problem is. The ECM would be easy, simply unplug and take inside with you at night. In the morning, reinstall into the car and see if there is any change.

 

 

Try those and see if anything helps.

[Oldsmobile Desperado]

its great that everybody is helping you in this thread instead of bullshitting about Wbody quality

 

I have an 85 nissan 4x4, had these exact same symptoms that drove me mad for quite some time. I could get it up to maybe 20 - 35mph and then it would just fall on its face like the engine was cutting out. It was very speed-sensitive, didnt matter what gear I was in.

 

Ended up being the fuel pump.. it wasn't delivering enough fuel to the carb, and the fuel bowl would run dry.

What happens when you hit the speed barrier?

Does it matter if its a part throttle accel, mid throttle, or full throttle? (if anything but full throttle messes up, its your map sensor)

Can you lightly throttle it to increase speed over a long distance?

If you floor it for any amount of time, do you get to that speed or does it cut out sooner?

 

A. Either your fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator is bad, which is brought on by the cold. Check fuel line pressure on a cold morning. Try to hook up the Fuel pressure gauge so that you can drive around and watch it (put the gauge up near a windsheild wiper and let the hood latch closed but not shut all the way). Drive up to this barrier and see if you still have fuel pressure.

 

B. Check injector resistance while cold and while hot. See if these numbers differ.

 

C. Since temperature is the catalyst, you can use some type of heater to get certain areas warmer before starting the car. This will help you determine where the problem is. The ECM would be easy, simply unplug and take inside with you at night. In the morning, reinstall into the car and see if there is any change.

 

 

Try those and see if anything helps.

 

 

Ripped off the computer, it stayed in the warmth overnight - no change.

However, another mechanic said, that it was pretty common that he had to order the updated PROMs from GM, so the ECM is still the suspect.

 

Fuel pump died recently, and the new one (with a new filter and check of the line) didn't affect the cold-weather insanity.

 

I will still try to measure #A & #B to figure out what exactly happens during the warmup.

 

It was pretty warm today, about 46F at night, and I still started chocking at 20mph for good 5-10 minutes. This is usually a hard limit, an attempt to breach the top speed ends in stalling. So I just wait until I can get slightly faster, then faster until I'm ok. Warm engine runs swell.

[sonyman87]

do you have new Coilpacks, Plugwires, checked for foul plugs. maybe one.

 

my car was doing the same thing.. i think i tracked it down to a plugwire wasnt all the way snaped on to the coil pack. would idle great run fine until a higher speed ~50mph and it would cut out. the problems isnt happening right now but im sure it will come back.

[Oldsmobile Desperado]

Moved to another region, found a job and a parking.

Kept digging in the wounded beast.

 

Changed the ECU & upgraded the PROM. No impact on the problem.

Inspected the exhaust & replaced the muffler.

 

Checked the ignition system: replaced the plugs (it was time), checked the high-voltage wires, a battery, tried a different coil pack - no effect.

 

Here's, however, what I discovered in the last week:

 

a) ECU shows the car running at 100mph, while it actually goes 30mph. What can be the cause of it, aside from VSS?

 

Fuel pressure is actually at the lowest allowed level of 32psi (specs define the range of 32-40 psi). Assuming that the filter is not an issue, line was checked for restrictions, and the pump is new, what can be responsible for this? Is it possible that the new pump itself can't provide enough power?

[THe_DeTAiL3R]

40*F cold??? hahahah

 

That's not cold, to a car anyway!

 

0*F is cold, like it was a couple weeks ago! And my car started up fine!

 

 

I think your car is FUBARed.. junk it and get something else. They are not that complicated I think your mechanic is a monkey, or just stealing your money.