Frustration! - New Problems

[supreme_style21]

Well I thought I solved this problem.. but its shown up again.

 

(Usually) after an extended period of driving, the car develops a severe miss.. to the point to where it just won't maintain acceleration anymore. If I pull over, stop, start driving again, the problem disappears. While it can and has happened at any point while driving, it'll almost always do it after a certain amount of mileage. I notice it especially when I drive back home from college. 25 miles outside of town, at the exact same spot every time, it'll start bucking and missing. Again, all I need to do is stop, then continue driving. The only SES code that has shown up was an Oxygen Sensor Failure. The code came up many miles after the problem last week and was only lit for 5-6 seconds. Oxygen sensor was replaced 20,000 miles ago. I really don't think the O2 sensor is to blame. Otherwise all sensors are reading within specs according to the shop.

 

While driving in town, it will develop a stalling/surging. The RPM's will slowly drop their way down until the car is barely running.. then they'll shoot up to 2-3k for a few seconds. It'll continue doing this until the car just dies if I don't interfer.

I've taken this just about every place imaginable and nobody has any ideas.. other than to just start throwing parts at it. Plugs/wires are new ACDelco. IAC and TPS have been replaced. No vacuum leaks. New fuel filter. I'm at wits end here.. I don't have the cash to throw parts at it. I've gone as far as driving with a damn mechanic for 45 miles with his computer hooked up.. SURE ENOUGH the problem didn't surface :cuss:

 

Someone has to have some kind of idea!!

[DiscoStudd]

I fucking hate when that happens! Damn near every time I've taken one of my cars in to be diagnosed, the problem won't rear its ugly head, so I usually end up throwing parts at it until the problem goes away.

 

You mentioned what you've replaced so far. I was thinking: Crank Sensor, ICM, Fuel Pressure Regulator, EGR (maybe it needs a cleaning?) That's about all I can think of off the top of my head...

[5speedz34]

What, kind of O2 sensor did you buy? Was it Bosch cuz I've heard of them going prematurly.

[pitzel]

I think this is one of those situations where the symptom isn't necessarily the problem.

 

Of course you will get a SES code for the oxygen sensor when there is a misfire. Because the oxygen sensor would be showing the car running much leaner than it really is, and overall control action would be poor. This in turn would cause the mixture to be adjusted even richer in an attempt to compensate for excess oxygen.

 

I think we solved the problem on my mom's early 90s H-body through ECU replacement.

[supreme_style21]

It is a Borg Warner sensor.. I think I mentioned Bosch before, but I was wrong.

 

I feel the same about the sensor not being the problem. Because of the misfire, the O2 is going to throw a code.

 

As far as throwing parts at it, I really don't have the money to continue doing so. There are so many parts that I could replace in the attempt to solve the problem. I'm trying to sell the thing, so I want the quickest fix.. otherwise I'll have to trade it off as-is.

 

The main thing I noticed is the time/distance factor. Again, it can do it at any time, but the majority of the symptoms arise at an almost exact point of mileage. All I have to do is stop the car (leave it running if it stays running) then continue with the trip.. the problem usually doesn't show up for the rest of the day. What components could fail and explain this time/distance factor? I think that is what seems to stump most of the places I've taken it to. They all have ideas until I mention that, then all I get is '... ohhhhhh.. Um well.. we dunno then.'

[pitzel]

The main thing I noticed is the time/distance factor. Again, it can do it at any time, but the majority of the symptoms arise at an almost exact point of mileage. All I have to do is stop the car (leave it running if it stays running) then continue with the trip.. the problem usually doesn't show up for the rest of the day. What components could fail and explain this time/distance factor? I think that is what seems to stump most of the places I've taken it to. They all have ideas until I mention that, then all I get is '... ohhhhhh.. Um well.. we dunno then.'

 

Solder joint in the ECU? Or other heat-sensitive component in the ECU? That would be my guess, are you on your original ECU or not?

[supreme_style21]

Almost everything is original..

 

Someone mentioned the catalytic converter causing these problems? Sound fesable?

[supreme_style21]

Well this has just about pissed me off.

 

Now the car really doesn't want to move. It'll drive, but barely. Now the engine runs fine at speeds under 40ish, but it simply fails to respond to the throttle unless I mash it. Pressing the accelerator normally produces very little/no response in the engine.. no revs, nothing. But if I hit it down, it'll pause for 1-2 seconds, then take off like no tomorrow. This just developed out of nowhere, which is REALLY cool, because I've got to hit up a 300 mile drive tomorrow morning.

 

Anything above 40ish will still cause the awful miss/stalling I've mentioned before.

 

There is a smell coming from SOMEWHERE.. I couldn't locate it. It smells like the exhaust of a snowcat.. that rich burnt gas/oil combo kinda smell.

 

I can't drive the goddamn thing anywhere now.. took a lot of praying and swearing just to get it across town after work. I've backed it into my parking spot if anyone wants to hook up to it and take it away.

 

Somebody point me in the right direction. I'm about ready to throw in the towel on this one.

[White93z34]

hmm is the cat glowing red after one of these incidents?

[supreme_style21]

hmm is the cat glowing red after one of these incidents?

 

Not in the least.

 

It threw an SES finally.. HOPEFULLY I can get the SOB across town tomorrow to check it. It seems that once the SES light goes in, the car runs without incident. Otherwise I'm still screwed.

 

All I'm concerned with right now is getting on the road tomorrow. If it runs okay in the morning, I'm going to chance it.

[Justin]

Has to be some sensor that's fucking up if it runs better when the SES light comes on, as it goes into open loop then. You say you had the computer on it, how were the o2's switching?

[supreme_style21]

Has to be some sensor that's fucking up if it runs better when the SES light comes on, as it goes into open loop then. You say you had the computer on it, how were the o2's switching?

 

I personally didn't look at the readings.. but the guys at Tuffy's said everything was operating perfectly. Again, that was while the car was running good.. I haven't had the computer hooked up WHILE the car was being a fucker.. I took a mechanic for a 2 hour drive, planning on it acting up, but it didn't, so nobody has pulled any readings while it was acting up. This is the first time its thrown a code that has stayed 'current'. The previous few codes it has thrown pop up for a few seconds, then disappear. Whichever code is being thrown now sticks around if I leave the car running. If I shut it off, the cars acts up again. If I leave it idle, the code will eventually show up, thus the car runs fine. As I speak, and this may sound stupid, the car is running. The stupid fucker is going to run all night. I can't take the chance of that light not coming back on. I MUST make this trip in the AM. A relative is in dire care at the hospital.. I've gotta make it there 'just in case.' This car has NEVER left me stranded and I'll be damned if it does it to me now. This new problem I have yet to check out.. The problem I've mentioned at the top of the thread is the least of my concern right now. Unless I keep that SES light up, the car won't move.

 

To add to the dilema, the thermostat decided it is going to stick shut tonight. Its original, so I can't complain of its lifespan. I've just got to get out and squeeze the hell out of the radiator hose.. she'll open up then.. for now.. The way things are looking, I don't think I'm supposed to make that trip tomorrow.

[Bossman429]

Have you given any thoughts to the Ignition Control Module?

They have a silicone coating on them, which, when cold may let the car run fine, but when it heats up, it will either not start (my G/F's Cavalier) or run with a misfire on a couple of cylinders on the same coil pack (my Beretta).

My G/F's Cavy would run great for about 20 minutes, then after it got a little warm, it would die, and then crank with a no start situation.

The Beretta just flat out started running shitty all of a sudden, the only warning I got (I only realized that it was doing it after I replaced the ICM) was that the Tach was acting funny before the module went out.

Gotta love those intermittent problems

Good Luck

[Regal_GS_1989]

This is a long shot, but MAP sensor??? After I changed the Head gaskets on my GS, i started the car, everything ran fine, except i was getting an SES. The car smelled like it was burning rich. Then, it would stall. I re-started it a couple times, then it wouldn't want to run after that. Plus, there was a lot of black smoke comming out of the exaust. Turns out I forgot to plug in the MAP sensor. Plug it in and.. Perfect. It was running like a champ.

[supreme_style21]

That was a shitty trip. If I could keep the SES light on, the car ran fine. If I slowed down/stopped, the light would go off and the problems would return hardcore. Stopping along side the road for a few minutes resulted in the SES light coming back, so I could continue the trip.

Talked to a few more shops, all of which said they were baffled. They would all have answers, but as I continued describing the problems/symptoms, the answers kept changing to the point where they said they really wouldn't dare say without some indepth diagnostics.

Although it ran seemingly fine with the SES light on, my fuel economy suffered greatly. The average 350-400 miles I get from a tank dropped to 150/tank.

 

The ol' man gave me $500. If the problem isn't solved within that amount, or the solution to the problem(s) proves to cost more than that, we decided that I'll have to cut my losses and get rid of it as-is. Talk about taking it up the ass.

[MoTox8410]

i believe i had told you that i had the same exact problems with my sisters sunfire (the fuel pump) on the way to baraga MI a 12 hr drive and it started bout 1/2 there it was like every 60-65 miles and got worse and worse this was on the a snowmobile trip so its like 0 degrees outside middle of a white out so it kinda sucked

 

on the way back we got towed alot of the way by my dads silverado while he was also pulling a 3 place enclosed snowmobile trailer but, we couldnt do that across the mackinaw bridge so we were scared as hell that it would stall on the bridge with 40 MPH guests SCARY :shock: but when we got back we changed the fuel pump and now its all good

[supreme_style21]

I've been told numerous things by almost everyone. Fuel pump, pressure regulator, TPS, IAC, MAP, O2, ECU, ICM, catalytic converter, injectors, coil packs.. etc..

 

Its running very rich most of the time now. One service manager I talked to said the SES light shouldn't make the problem go away, like it does.. he said the car is doing the exact opposite of what it should be doing? Like I said, its got five hundred bucks to work with, then its history.

[Bossman429]

Try an Ignition control Module!

$130 of your $500, and from what you've described they are the same problems I've seen with ICM's going out.

If you have a 3100 the ICM is really easy, just under the coil packs

[supreme_style21]

Try an Ignition control Module!

$130 of your $500, and from what you've described they are the same problems I've seen with ICM's going out.

If you have a 3100 the ICM is really easy, just under the coil packs

 

I've thought about it, but would the whole SES light situation make sense then? I don't see how the SES light coming on would straighten up the ICM.

[Bossman429]

I believe your SES light is coming on because of the O2 sensor detecting a rich exhaust. Now what would cause a rich exhaust? unburt fuel; or a misfire. Most likely on 2 cylinders, if it's running as bad as you say it is.

Have any of the shops you took it too hook it up to a scope tester, to check which cylinders are misfiring? or was it never acting up at the shop?

[supreme_style21]

I believe your SES light is coming on because of the O2 sensor detecting a rich exhaust. Now what would cause a rich exhaust? unburt fuel; or a misfire. Most likely on 2 cylinders, if it's running as bad as you say it is.

Have any of the shops you took it too hook it up to a scope tester, to check which cylinders are misfiring? or was it never acting up at the shop?

 

It'll never misfire when its sitting there. I'm just going to have to drop it off somewhere on Monday and let them drive it for the week.

 

Any time I pull a code, its related to the O2. First it was reading rich. Then complete failure. And most recently, lean.

[supreme_style21]

Lil bit of an update. Dropped it off at the shop today. Were unable to find the problem yet.

 

I changed the oil in it this past weekend. They informed me today that my oil was FULL of gas. Seeing as how the car has been running like poo for the past month, I can only assume it's been like that for quite some time... I didn't realize it had been running THAT rich. Guess we dunno yet as to what/how much, if any, damage has been done to the engine. Perhaps 104k is all the further this car will make it.

[bartonmd]

Agreed Bossman... exact same thing I've had on 3 ICM's on different cars (only 2 were mine though). The smell you're getting is from the cat running hot from the extra fuel/air mixture getting burnt in it. I'm going to say a definite ICM, but advice is worth what you pay for it and I won't take a dime.

 

Mike

[95 3-4]

You should have flashed that SES light out while you had it.

[95DropTop]

Sounds like its missing on one+ cylinders. The gas in the oil is most likely from washing the rings out..too much gas in the cylinder and it will get forced out past the rings - assuming the mechanic knows what he is talking about. Due to the rich condition, you will likely need a new cat...it is clogged up by now. I had the same time/distance situation with my Dodge Caravan...turned out to be the cat. But they did not find it until after the $300 computer swap. Or maybe they found it and milked it for a few more dollars! Gotta love mechanics. Kinda like Doctors...when you need one, you REALLY need one and you're gonna pay through the nose for it! Good luck and keep us posted.