All W-bodies: LATE AIRBAG ADDITION

[CuttySup]

I have always had one burning question reguarding the W-body and airbags. Why did GM wait so long to give the cars airbags? The Regal had them first, I believe. The GP got dual airbags in 1994. It wasn't until 1995 when the Cutlass recieved dual airbags. The Lumina didn't even get a driver airbag until 1995!

 

This question came about when a friend of mine, who drove a 1991 Cutlass Supreme was killed in a head-on crash last January. It was in the middle of a snowstorm and she tried to pass another car on a two-lane road, lost control and hit a Dodge Dakota head-on. Those in the Toledo area may remember the headlines. She, along with her passenger, was killed on impact when their bodies hit the dashboard.

 

I believe that they would still be alive, albiet disabled, had they have had airbags.

[Regal_GS_1989]

I know that GM was late in putting airbags in some of their vehicles. But an airbag probably wouldn't have saved her in that type of accident. Also, were they wearing seatbelts. And, you said that she was passing someone on a two lane highway during a snow storm when she was hit. I live where there are a lot of snow storms throughout the year, and I would never pass anyone on a two lane highway during a snow storm, and i also have 4 studded snow tires on my car. Seems to me like she was going too fast for road conditions.

[1990lumina]

Don't get me the wrong way but I feel an air bag is just a false sense of security. Practice defensive driving, wear your seat belt, drive for the road conditions and you should come out okay.

 

- Jeff L.

[DiscoStudd]

The Federal government passed legislation, which began halfway in the 1987 model year that stated automakers had the choice to install either a driver's side airbag, or passive restraints (in GM's case, the door-mounted seatbelts.) (On a sidebar, ever notice some cars of the era that would be too awkward for passive restraints, like the Mustang and Firebird, that have a driver's airbag?) All automakers were required to have dual airbags in place in all their vehicles starting in 1995. Well we all saw how well that went. Automakers rushed to put airbags in their vehicles (well, GM took their sweet-ass time, but for argument's sake, lets assume they all rushed in) without enough testing, or customer training which resulted in several people (mostly children) being killed by deploying airbags. Of course this caused the automakers to rush out again and do a stop-gap measure by depowering the airbags.

 

The next step is "smart airbags" that have sensors in the seat to determine the occupant's size and weight (or whether the seat's occupied) so the number of airbag related deaths drop further.

 

IIRC, President Nixon wanted all cars to have airbags way back in the early 70's (and there were some cars that actually had them available for a short time) but his bill got shot down and another bill was settled on. I think he also was a proponent of lap/shoulder belt combos in the back seat as well (and those weren't mandatory until 89 or 90.)

[ThunderBat]

I know this may not be a very popular answer here but to me the steering wheels is your most active contact point with the car...some of the early airbag wheels are some of the ugliest on record in my opinion...the automakers have come a long way in making them more appealing and less bulbous and bulky looking...I would like to be able to retrofit newer steering wheels to older models or just to have the option of swapping off the wheel for a custom one if I choose...this country is the worlds worst for wanting to spend billions to make cars safe and not spending squat to make drivers better trained and prepared...in some other countries it takes years to get a permit and some serious bucks as well...why shouldnt we ba as well trained as pilots?...the lives at stake on the road are just as vital as the ones in the air.

[supreme_style21]

An airbag may have possibly saved those lives.. you can't make a quick judgement on that. Airbags are not a false sense of security.. they are designed to work WITH the other safety compontents in a vehicle. One safety item alone is not always enough to save a life. Seatbelts work great in certain impacts and rollovers. Crumple zones soften the impact on the occupants. Collapsable steering columns lessen the blow to a human body. Lower dash panels are designed to give way when your knees and thighs hit them. Airbags supplement these features. If you're not wearing your seatbelt, you're going to get hurt when the airbag deploys. Airbags can greatly increase your chance of survival in an impact. I think the main reason GM didn't have airbags in the older cars was because of the cost. GM liked to take the cheap route.. most of you know that. Like Disco said, they had the option of passive restraints or airbags. Passive restraints were obviously cheaper, so GM took that road and rode it as long as they could. Even the DESIGN for the passive restraints was a cheap one. Mounting them on the door was not the best idea ever. Doors can have a tendency to come open in a severe accident. Where does that leave the occupant with the door-mounted seatbelts? A rollover would be the best example.. the seatbelt is certainly not going to hold the door shut when only God knows how much force would be applied to an open door in a rollover. Anyway, GM took the most 'cost-effective' route in the late 80's/early 90's. And airbags certainly save lives.

[HokemBokem]

I never wore my seatbelt until I found out how many people got in accidents that would have died without wearing them. If it wasent for that thread I started a while back about seatbelts I would prob still not be wearing one. Now I never put the car in gear without it on.

[supreme_style21]

I never wore my seatbelt until I found out how many people got in accidents that would have died without wearing them. If it wasent for that thread I started a while back about seatbelts I would prob still not be wearing one. Now I never put the car in gear without it on.

 

People don't realize how much it helps. The general population seems to think you stand a greater chance of being INJURED with the seatbelt. The media doesn't really emphasize how many people are actually saved by them.. instead you hear about how John Doe burned to a firey death because his seatbelt jammed. Or how he drowned in a lake because his seatbelt was on.. its kind of sad that information has to be interpreted that way by the masses.

[HokemBokem]

I never wore my seatbelt until I found out how many people got in accidents that would have died without wearing them. If it wasent for that thread I started a while back about seatbelts I would prob still not be wearing one. Now I never put the car in gear without it on.

 

People don't realize how much it helps. The general population seems to think you stand a greater chance of being INJURED with the seatbelt. The media doesn't really emphasize how many people are actually saved by them.. instead you hear about how John Doe burned to a firey death because his seatbelt jammed. Or how he drowned in a lake because his seatbelt was on.. its kind of sad that information has to be interpreted that way by the masses.

 

 

 

Because of people stories here, I will never be in a car wihtout one again. Its just not worth it to lose a life or be seriously injured becasue someone else doesent know how to drive.

[slick]

Those in the Toledo area may remember the headlines. She, along with her passenger, was killed on impact when their bodies hit the dashboard.

 

I just moved up here for school, but I'm sure if I ask around, I could find out about it.

 

BTW, where did this accident happen at?

[93CutlassSupreme]

 

IIRC, President Nixon wanted all cars to have airbags way back in the early 70's (and there were some cars that actually had them available for a short time) but his bill got shot down and another bill was settled on. I think he also was a proponent of lap/shoulder belt combos in the back seat as well (and those weren't mandatory until 89 or 90.)

 

i believe GM may have offered airbags in Cadillacs in the early 70's.

[CuttySup]

Those in the Toledo area may remember the headlines. She, along with her passenger, was killed on impact when their bodies hit the dashboard.

 

I just moved up here for school, but I'm sure if I ask around, I could find out about it.

 

BTW, where did this accident happen at?

Sterns Road between Whiteford Road and US 23/I-475 in Whiteford Township, right in front of the stone quarries. It happened on January 23, 2004. I have the news articles from The Blade on my wall.

[CuttySup]

 

IIRC, President Nixon wanted all cars to have airbags way back in the early 70's (and there were some cars that actually had them available for a short time) but his bill got shot down and another bill was settled on. I think he also was a proponent of lap/shoulder belt combos in the back seat as well (and those weren't mandatory until 89 or 90.)

 

i believe GM may have offered airbags in Cadillacs in the early 70's.

Cadillacs and Oldsmobiles

[CuttySup]

I never wore my seatbelt until I found out how many people got in accidents that would have died without wearing them. If it wasent for that thread I started a while back about seatbelts I would prob still not be wearing one. Now I never put the car in gear without it on.

 

People don't realize how much it helps. The general population seems to think you stand a greater chance of being INJURED with the seatbelt. The media doesn't really emphasize how many people are actually saved by them.. instead you hear about how John Doe burned to a firey death because his seatbelt jammed. Or how he drowned in a lake because his seatbelt was on.. its kind of sad that information has to be interpreted that way by the masses.

 

 

Because of people stories here, I will never be in a car wihtout one again. Its just not worth it to lose a life or be seriously injured becasue someone else doesent know how to drive.

I can't say enough on how much seatbelts make a difference. I was raised on the emphasis to wear my seatbelt. My parents wouldn't drive until we were buckled up. Now, I feel uncomfortable WITHOUT one.

[supreme_style21]

Airbags were certainly offered in the 70's. I remember watching a video in my Auto Tech class at the college when we were discussing airbags.. in that video, they supposedly pulled some old 70's GM boat out of the woods and crashed it into a cement wall, just to show that the airbags could still be active after sitting in the woods for 30 years. I was kinda suprised that airbags had been offered way back then. I wonder how far along development would be along if they continued with them after the 70's.

[GnatGoSplat]

I can't say enough on how much seatbelts make a difference. I was raised on the emphasis to wear my seatbelt. My parents wouldn't drive until we were buckled up. Now, I feel uncomfortable WITHOUT one.

 

Just curious, but did the people you mention in the first post wear a seatbelt?

 

Sometimes it doesn't matter. You can have a vehicle with great crash test ratings, dual airbags, both front seat occupants wearing seatbelts, but in a head-on collision, they die anyway. Crash compatibility plays a huge role. You crash into something bigger, you're in trouble. General rule of thumb is the heavier vehicle always wins. A Dodge Dakota is not only heavier, but taller. Its point of strength (bumper area) will crash into a Cutlass's point of weakness, the soft spot ABOVE the bumper. There's been many safety advocates that think truck bumpers need to be lowered to improve crash compatibility with cars.

 

Back to the original question of why GM waited so long to put in airbags - because they could! GM, like any major corporation, is only interested in cutting costs and getting by with minimal requirements. The well-being of their customers is not a huge concern, especially not in the early 90's!

 

At one time, there was an American car company that had a major safety issue with their car design. The company's bean counters actually calculated it would cost less to allow people to die and settle out of court rather than issuing a mandatory safety recall. So that's what they did, until a whistle blower brought the problem to public attention and a safety recall was issued. I want to say it was Ford with the Pinto fuel tanks, but it's been awhile so I can't remember.

[White93z34]

i, personaly feel perfectly safe without a airbag in my car.

 

ive been in 2 prety serious accidents now with cars that never had airbags, walked away. now i know thats not true for everyone.

 

looks and functionallity take an important role here too. for example my dad has a 87 camaro, no airbags, my friend ryan has a 91 camaro, driver airbag, its huge, clunky and barely lets you see the gauges, did they change the acutal unibody of the car, the crumple zones, heck no, but just added an airbag to an existing design.

 

i see no need for an airbag in any of my cars, i wear my seatbelt i don't need a clunky ugly airbag to give me chemical burns and make it just that much harder to repair the car if its wrecked.

[supreme_style21]

i, personaly feel perfectly safe without a airbag in my car.

 

ive been in 2 prety serious accidents now with cars that never had airbags, walked away. now i know thats not true for everyone.

 

looks and functionallity take an important role here too. for example my dad has a 87 camaro, no airbags, my friend ryan has a 91 camaro, driver airbag, its huge, clunky and barely lets you see the gauges, did they change the acutal unibody of the car, the crumple zones, heck no, but just added an airbag to an existing design.

 

i see no need for an airbag in any of my cars, i wear my seatbelt i don't need a clunky ugly airbag to give me chemical burns and make it just that much harder to repair the car if its wrecked.

 

In most newer cars, if there is a collision severe enough to deploy the airbags, you've got much worse to worry about. The 'modern' crumple zones that save lives also destroy cars. It doesn't take much of a collision to total out a new vehicle. The cars are designed to collapse around the passenger compartment, leading to severe damage throughout the rest of the vehicle. Notice any new cars in the yards? The ones with the 'not so bad' damage, yet they're in the yard?

The Camaro's airbags were huge.. as were most of the earlier systems with any auto maker. As technology progresses, so do the size of the airbags. Most of todays systems are integrated into the interiors very well. I can't say I've heard of chemical burns from airbags either.

[White93z34]

i will admit, airbag technology has advanced prety far recently, the aibags are less unsightly then they once were, however owning a 93' model year car and seeing the size of the airbags they put in early 90s gm cars, and the amount of people that i've heard of getting injured from them makes me very glad my car does not have such a aparatius in the center of my steering wheel. however i really don't feel safe driving a car that has airbags, its just unsettleing to me.

[supreme_style21]

Again, the number of people that are injured vs. those that are saved.. it can't even be compared. People are injured by them when they're hugging the steeringwheel while driving, or not wearing seatbelts. The seatbelt is designed to hold you in place for the airbag deployment. No seatbelt, you smoke the steeringwheel/airbag, leading to injuries. And wedging your hands between the spokes of the wheel is a bad idea. Your wrists will certainly snap when that bag goes off. They can be unsettling if you aren't familiar with them. They just don't go off. If your in an accident, you don't even realize the airbags have gone off! Everyone always hears about the bad part of the system.. rarely does a person hear about the good. That basically goes with ANYTHING these days. If something bad happens with a product, you tell 20 people. If something good happens with a product, you tell 1.

[White93z34]

well really not much is gona change my opinion on airbags, i personally know people who were injured in a minor colision by an airbag and yes the seat was back and seatbelt was on. i wear my seatbelt i'm in good shape, just one more electronic system to go bad, one more thing for me to put back together, one more obstruction from my gauges, i've been in 2 prety bad wrecks now, i walked away, i wore my seatbelt, it saved me.

[GnatGoSplat]

You're definitely better off in a car with airbags. All statistics unanimously agree on that fact.

[HokemBokem]

I got in my friends Cadalliac Catera the other day and both front airbags were hanging out :shock: I asked him what happened and he said he got into a hit and run with some S-10. Right after the guy in the S-10 hit him he paused a sec then drove away. Well I asked him what he was going to do about his car and he said he wasent going to do anything becasue it was going to cost $1,000 per airbag to put back in :shock:

 

Is this really how much it costs to get new airbags installed?

[DiscoStudd]

I got in my friends Cadalliac Catera the other day and both front airbags were hanging out :shock: I asked him what happened and he said he got into a hit and run with some S-10. Right after the guy in the S-10 hit him he paused a sec then drove away. Well I asked him what he was going to do about his car and he said he wasent going to do anything becasue it was going to cost $1,000 per airbag to put back in :shock:

 

Is this really how much it costs to get new airbags installed?

Tell him to hit up eBay. He could get a set for under $300. They aren't very difficult to install at all...

 

 

Getting back to the "Good VS Bad" argument, I believe that the general public needs to be educated more on how SRS systems work. You'd be surprised at how many people are intimidated by airbags because their lack of knowledge. Alot of people also think that because their car has an airbag that they don't need to wear their seatbelt.

 

There are a few things that people need to be aware of:

1. You need to sit at least 10 inches away from the airbag.

2. Don't allow your children to ride in the front seats.

3. Grip the steering wheel at "9 and 3" (instead of "10 and 2") so your hands don't go flying into the roof when the airbag deploys.

4. Don't wrap your thumbs around the rim of the steering wheel (you know, like you do when you're jerking off )otherwise the force of the airbag deploying will break your wrists.

5. If you're a front seat passenger, don't kick your feet up on the dash...

[supreme_style21]

Certainly to each their own. I'm not out to change anyone's opinions... I just see too many 'misinformed' people that go off on the SR systems. I'm not a spokesperson for seatbelt useage. I know plenty of people who refuse to wear them, mainly on the basis of 'its my own life'. Thats fine. I wear mine 50% of the time. Its my own life.. I'll have no ground to stand on when I become injured because I wasn't wearing my seatbelt. But that would be my own personal decision and I'd deal with the consequences. I just don't like to see people rip on the safety systems because of the wrong information. Judgements need to be made on the proper/correct information.