MAP Question (E-Ram)

[maybe2fast]

Okay, Sonyman can back me on this one!

 

If I were to get an electric SC (E-Ram), which puts out a consistant 1 psi, it would oviously help the performance. Now if I switch over to the TGP MAP sensor so the computer would recieve the correct MAP readings (+ boost) do you think that would help even further?

[Guest TurboSedan]

Okay, Sonyman can back me on this one!

 

If I were to get an electric SC (E-Ram), which puts out a consistant 1 psi, it would oviously help the performance. Now if I switch over to the TGP MAP sensor so the computer would recieve the correct MAP readings (+ boost) do you think that would help even further?

 

NO DO NOT INSTALL A 2-bar MAP!!! the resolution is completely different than what the 1-bar calibration will read. IOW, it simply will not work. and with 1psi it's very doubtful you need any more fuel anyway.

 

why even bother spending money on something that puts out 1psi? your money is better spent elsewhere.

[maybe2fast]

I was worried that the Lumina PCM would not know what to do with the new reading, IF I WAS TO EVEN DO THIS...I was however kinda impressed by the video on the E-RAM website...Thankz again for the help on another one of my crazy ideas (I am always thinkin of something)

[Guest TurboSedan]

Okay, Sonyman can back me on this one!

 

If I were to get an electric SC (E-Ram), which puts out a consistant 1 psi, it would oviously help the performance. Now if I switch over to the TGP MAP sensor so the computer would recieve the correct MAP readings (+ boost) do you think that would help even further?

 

NO DO NOT INSTALL A 2-bar MAP!!! the resolution is completely different than what the 1-bar calibration will read. IOW, it simply will not work. at best, drivability will suffer. it's just not worth it if all you are getting is a whopping 1psi....and with 1psi it's very doubtful you need any more fuel anyway.

 

why even bother spending money on something that puts out 1psi? your money is better spent elsewhere.

[GP1138]

Okay, Sonyman can back me on this one!

 

If I were to get an electric SC (E-Ram), which puts out a consistant 1 psi, it would oviously help the performance. Now if I switch over to the TGP MAP sensor so the computer would recieve the correct MAP readings (+ boost) do you think that would help even further?

 

NO DO NOT INSTALL A 2-bar MAP!!! the resolution is completely different than what the 1-bar calibration will read. IOW, it simply will not work. at best, drivability will suffer. it's just not worth it if all you are getting is a whopping 1psi....and with 1psi it's very doubtful you need any more fuel anyway.

 

why even bother spending money on something that puts out 1psi? your money is better spent elsewhere.

 

How did you manage to double post after he posted his reply to the first one?

[maybe2fast]

I was wondering the samething! they are six minutes apart also! He answered my question quickly though, and I am thankful, thanks again

[DaveFromColorado]

I'd LOVE to see the CFM numbers from the e-ram's - honestly, I don't believe they can move enough air to create even a 0 vacuum level, let alone 1psi of boost - it'd take an AWFUL lot of air to back it up in the manifold like that.

 

I would like to point out that the small IHI turbochargers used in the turboford enignes will spin between 30,000 - 35,000 RPM's to create less then 2lbs of boost, that's what I don't believe the E-rams can create this kind of air movement.

 

Anyhow even if you were to set up a small turbocharger to create less then 3lbs of boost, I'd imagine you could get away with a check valve and bleed off, and you should be fairly safe.

 

--Dave.

[maybe2fast]

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

 

check out the video of the E-RAM!

[Guest TurboSedan]

I was worried that the Lumina PCM would not know what to do with the new reading

 

well, the ECM simply wouldn't know to add more fuel when it sees 1psi positive pressure. even with the 2-bar MAP it wouldn't know....unless you have a 2-bar calibration (as in unless you have a TGP memcal plugged into your ECM). that's the only way a 2-bar MAP sensor would do any good...you need a 2-bar calibration to match the 2-bar MAP in order for it to work. and with 1psi, it just isn't worth it. like i said before, very doubtful you need more fuel with 1psi.

[DaveFromColorado]

okay, I'm kinda biting my tongue there..

 

12,650+ RPM's is quite enough to move a good ammount of air ... note - when looking at their website, you can see they are metering two sides of the e-ram, if they wanted to be accurate, they'd have painted ONE blade and watched it that way, by marking both sides of the nose you get a double reading, so only half of what it truly would be. and 57 amps is a LOT of current...

 

6. How is the eRAM different than a supercharger or Turbocharger?

 

Answer: The eRAM is a distant cousin of the full blown turbo or supercharging system which employs a centrifugal impeller that must run all the time. They have to produce matched engine airflow, with high-pressure air compression (4 to 15 PSI is normal). This requires a tremendous amount of HP to drive the device. For example the airflow needed for a 2.5-liter engine at 6000 RPM is 265 CFM. At only 6 PSI, you would need 10 to 15 HP just to create this type of supercharging. Belts driven by the engine or a turbine driven off the engines exhaust gases can produce this type of power. The eRAM produces less than ½ PSI, but also rids the system of about ½ PSI of vacuum caused by filter and inlet restriction. These two gains give the eRAM its 1PSI supercharging performance results. The eRAM is very efficient in moving lots of air flow (CFM) at small pressures, where traditional turbo/superchargers are very good at making pressure, but need extreme speeds to match flow rates of most engines.

 

that's just slightly confusing information, for starters, they list vacuum as PSI, when really it's inches of mercury/water/alcohol or other LIQUID, it's not found as a measurement of air pressure, as that's not an accurate way to read it.

 

the 1psi they have listed sure looks like it's on a NON running engine, as they said it's "static pressure" meaning there's no draw on the other side of it.

 

I'd still have a hard time beliving it'd actually work, I'd want to set up some dyno time to see if it really works. I wrote the people with the "tornado fuel saver" and we found we lost HP in EVERY SINGLE engine we tried it in, we sent it back with all our dyno results, and they wrote us back telling us OUR dyno was broken, so we took the item to a "mustangdyne" shop and showed the same results there, wrote them again, they didn't respond.

 

I'd like to conduct these same tests witht he e-ram on nothing other then a "mustangdyne" or OTHER loaded dyno wich can give accurate readings down to .1 hp.

 

anyhow, if you still want to use this device, please feel free, you should be safe running just 1psi in your engine, the O2 sensor will make up for any extra fuel needed, and I don't even think the MAP sensor is used to calculate WOT tables...

 

--Dave.

[maybe2fast]

Sonyman has one on his car (3.4) and ran the quarter at like .2 tenths faster with it on.

[GrandPrix34]

the way I see it is if you DON'T Plan on a full-blown turbo/supercharger system (and non of this forum "i plan to do this that, blah blah blah), then the ERAM would be a good investment.

 

And with the little to no aftermarket for the w-body community, something like an eRam wouldn't hurt. Hell with no aftermarket, ANYTHING would be great!

[sonyman87]

Keep your stock intake MAF and MAP sensors.. when using eram the car will automaticly adjust as it was designed to do. Its just as if you were in the mountains going to sea level. Preasure increasees the car adjusts and richens the mix.

 

[edit] something i would like to add in defense for eRam. 57amps ~ 1hp robbed from your motor +or - 10% more for bad electrical systems. Even if eram improves by 1/2psi tahts a ~5hp gain depends on motor other variables. 5hp-1hp to run it = a Positive HP reading. those numbers are very very ruff. but their sight has several dyno charts avalible to support the claims. Maybe sometime soon when i get a break i can find a dyno and get some pulls with and without eRam[/edit]

 

1 more think.. when you install yours.. Put a Kill switch in the cabine so you dont run the piss out of it all the time. do this by running another switch inline with the WOT switch they provice you, mine kill switch lights up when the WOT is activated and turns off when i let off or turn off the kill switch. it will last ALOT longer that way. i have had mine for 16months now and the brushes are at 85% left! my buddy scott has burn 2 up in the past 4 months.. the guy at eracing motor sports ahve been nice about fixing it under warrnety and hopefully the problem is fixed this time. btw he has no kill switch and tends to have a very heavy foot planted most of the time.

[HokemBokem]

How much is it 300 bucks :shock:

[sonyman87]

How much is it 300 bucks :shock:

 

going faster isnt always free

[HokemBokem]

How much is it 300 bucks :shock:

 

going faster isnt always free

I know that but 300 bucks and these guys are saying it doesent even do much at all.

[sonyman87]

How much is it 300 bucks :shock:

 

going faster isnt always free

I know that but 300 bucks and these guys are saying it doesent even do much at all.

 

i dont think its actualy worth the $300 but i would say about $200 would be fair.. but ifyou consider i won a $300 prize at the Mymonte meet b/c of that thing.. it paied for itself

 

another edit!

the exaust cutouts at $35 was as good of a mod as eRam is. the combination though.. all i can say is wow. thats how i got those vidoes with g-tech reading 14.8xs instead of 15.1x-15.2x

[DaveFromColorado]

Sonyman -

 

I'd like to see some dyno proof from a loaded dyno, (mustangdyne, or any other loadable dyno, not an inertia dyno like the dynojet's)

 

I'd like to see the difference between "on" and "off" with the e-ram, before I'd believe it, I'd like to see a CLEAR indication of it actually working properly.

 

at PERFECT volumectric efficency, the 3.4 litre engine (207 CI) will pull about 300 CFM of air at 5k rpm's. now if you add a turbocharger, you'll have to add about 10% to the intake before you can actually start to back the air up, so that would mean for an engine running at 5k rpm's, this fan will have to push more then 330 CFM's, and that at 6k it will have to push almost 400 CFM's. mind you, this is a perfect VE engine..

 

here's a scale.. at .85 VE (average for dohc engine if I remember correctly)

 

RPM ... CFM

1000 ... 50

2000 ... 101

3000 ... 152

3500 ... 178

4000 ... 203

4500 ... 229

5000 ... 254

5500 ... 280

6000 ... 305

6500 ... 330

 

now - how many CFM does this unit put out ... that's the only part of our calculation we're missing and they don't seem to have any answers for me on that question...

 

if I had $300 to piss away, I'd test these units myself running both free air, and attempting to back them up in an engine to see what their load rating is.

 

they brag about being able to acheve 25k RPM's on these fans but their photo sensors were picking up both sides of the tape, so they were probably running at half that speed - so we'd have to find out the efficency of the fans. I don't douby that they will help airflow thru the filter, but I think the filter restriction would be enough to call the item itself "not worth it"

 

I'll see if I can't research this some more for you guys, I know sonyman believes in it, but I'd like to see some G-Tech results back-to-back with and without the unit operative (if you could do that for me please, since I know dyno time is expensive, and the G-tech should be efficent for these examples - run 3 runs each with, and without, and don't forget to let the engine cool between runs - if you've got enough space, time and ability to do these tests)

 

--Dave.

 

--Dave.

[GrandPrix34]

1000cfm, at 25,300rpm

 

not much eh?

[GrandPrix34]

All NEW as of Jan 1st 2004!! Gen-4 e-RAM shows 33% more air-flow over previous e-RAM units! **e-Racing Motorsports has utilized the very latest in motor technology to create a new, and even more powerful e-RAM. Lab tests on the Gen-4 e-RAM show air-flow of 1000cfm, at 25,300rpm with a draw of 57amps from a car battery's 13.88 Volts. THAT'S 791 WATTS!. As of January 1st, 2004, all e-RAMs and SUPER e-RAMs will ship with this new motor technology.

 

THIS IS NO TOY! This is a 791 watt, 57 amp axial-flow compressor that blasts out 3.5 lbs. of thrust at 1000cfm! It takes power to make power, and no one else even comes close! Accept no imitations! *see video demostration of the e-RAM in action

[DaveFromColorado]

to properly calculate electric motor output, and proper CFM flow, and backup flow, you have to know the PSI output of the item measures in "inches of water" - they're only giving enough information to make it sound awesome.

 

a freeflowing engine will pump TONS of air, way more then it will displace on average due to port velocity and such, but if it could move air that efficently, it wouldn't come out with any pressure.

 

an other example would be a vacuum cleaner, they move quite a bit of air if you think about these units, but if they don't put out much pressure.

 

it's all in how you look at the results - I'm still not a believer, hopefully* sonyman will do some g-tech's with and without it runnin' for us all.

 

if the results are good enough, I may* actually considder a unit like this myself.

 

--Dave.

[Guest TurboSedan]

Sonyman -

 

I'd like to see some dyno proof from a loaded dyno, (mustangdyne, or any other loadable dyno, not an inertia dyno like the dynojet's)

 

--Dave.

 

heck, i'd like to see results on a Dynojet. probably more accurate than a G-tech anyway.

[sonyman87]

it's all in how you look at the results - I'm still not a believer, hopefully* sonyman will do some g-tech's with and without it runnin' for us all.

 

well.. time and time again.. i have done g-tech runs alteast 100times and every time i posted the resualts i got ohh gtech is bs.. or still nobody believed it helped. The only way anyone will believe it helps is a true dyno run.. and i can say this is no vacume cleaner and it really does push air that hard. Im scared to hold the unit alone and hit the switch in fear that it will jump out of my hand and slam into something.

 

btw i have the 3.0 version 850cfms 50amps

 

the track run tests i did. i gained 1-2mph trap speed and .1-.3 tenths off E/T

[loominaz34]

According to my calculations, the alternator is drawing about .8 to 1 HP with the 50 amp model to put about 2 and a quarter times the airflow into the engine. That seems like a decent advantage to me.

I got my numbers from davefromcolorado's chart and my trusty TI-83 plus calculator with unit conversions

[gp90se]

How much is it 300 bucks :shock:

 

a nitrous kit costs that and actually gives power