skalor Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I'm getting my TGP dynoed this Sunday and I was wondering what others think the results might be. My only mods are a self-modified chip(running around 11-12 psi), K&N filter, and the getrag. Otherwise the car is completely stock, including the factory cat. I'm hoping for around 200 HP/250 TQ at the wheels. Here's the thread on Clubgp if anyone else is interested: http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=1726129&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 221HP/246lbs torque!! Should we start a betting pool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 No way, not that high. I'm going to say 190hp/230tq at the wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I'm hoping for around 200 HP/250 TQ at the wheels. i think you're right on the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
god910 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 212HP/ 274 lb/ft torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 *Looks around at the audience screaming out numbers* "What's your bid, Hye?" "Ummmmm......" *Looks around some more, tries to communicate with some members by holding up numbers with his fingers* "What's the lowest bid, Bob?" "Aaron, with 190/230" "Ummmm....... .....I bid 191/231" "And 191/231 is Hye's bid. The actual dyno stat is........" <to be continued> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Bob, you are too old to remember the rules, I reset my bid at 1hp 1tq Bob. He won't get more than 191. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfewtrail Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 196.27hp/236.49 lb-ft of torque Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TurboSedan Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 skalor, how many pulls are you going to be able to do? are you going to pay extra for the A/F monitoring? good luck tomarrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Bob, you are too old to remember the rules, I reset my bid at 1hp 1tq Bob. He won't get more than 191. I'm too old to remember the rules? HAHAHA!!! I make the rules! Just ask my beauties! And you do NOT get to reset your bid. Don't make me have the ghost of Rod strangle you in your sleep. Anyways..... I think Mr. Trails hit the nail on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted October 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Well, the results are in and noone was even close. I was very disappointed with the results and I'm sure everyone else will be as well. 171.1 HP / 202.6 TQ 171.4 HP / 206.4 TQ I'll be posting the dyno graph later on and I have a video as well. The video is sweet as you can really hear the BOV and the turbo screaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Well, the results are in and noone was even close. I was very disappointed with the results and I'm sure everyone else will be as well. 171.1 HP / 202.6 TQ 171.4 HP / 206.4 TQ I'll be posting the dyno graph later on and I have a video as well. The video is sweet as you can really hear the BOV and the turbo screaming. If that's right, my n/a must be putting like 90hp to the ground.. seriously. :? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Well then we all overbid, but I was the closest 8) As for your 3.1, I have a buddy with a 92 Beretta, 3.1 3-speed. CAI, and chip and he pulled 102hp, so yah, I wouldn't be surprised if some couldn't break 90-100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus18 Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I ran 170 hp and 210tq at wheels with 160 chip, no cat and cone filter. thats weird that you have more boost and still that low. how many miles you have on it? marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted October 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 If you have a TopGun160 chip then you run about the same boost that I do. Otherwise, I have a K&N right on the turbo and that's about it for mods. I still have the factory exhaust with the factory cat so that could be hurting me since I have 128,000 miles on it. I did get an SES light on the way home that could be a problem. I got a code 43: which has to do the ESC circuit so I have to look into fixing that. I'm going to check the knock sensor first, then change the memcal if I don't see anything out of place. Right Click and Save As: http://www.gmv6.org/images/TGPdyno.mpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryk2003 Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 :shock: ...THAT VID is AWWWSOME!!!...now I want a TGP!!!...that car is REALLY NICE!!!...and it sounds GREAT!!!...i envy you :worship: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Sorry about the results. But you're right, there are a lot of little things that need changing on a car with that many miles which can make a significant difference. At least it sounded sweet as hell up there. :shock: Which BOV is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted October 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 The BOV is from a 1st gen DSM, and I have a little K&N filter on it. The guy in the video kept talking to me during the run, and I was trying to watch the car. I was standing next to him off camera and my brother was taping. It was cool to see my car up there and I plan on returning in the spring next year after I do some upgrades/fixes this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TGPilot Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Skalor...look at it as a base run! I was hoping for you to turn higher numbers...but in fact it would be nice to see what a free flowing exhaust will do, with a T28 turbo, true CAI, larger injectors, worked heads, custom intake, etc. Oh and all of these improvements you have to pay for!!! :shock: Hurry up and get it done!! It would make me laugh if my old TGP with the 5-speed had 170 HP coming out of it and it walked all over Aaron the way it did!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZ34 Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 That sounds exactly like mine, right down to the squeaky BOV! Get rid of the stock mufflers and that should help out some. I'm eventually planning on taking off my Magnaflows to run straight pipes, just need the extra $$ to have it done. I've been wanting to get mine on a Dyno. The closest one is a 2 1/2 hour drive away though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 I did get an SES light on the way home that could be a problem. I got a code 43: which has to do the ESC circuit so I have to look into fixing that. I'm going to check the knock sensor first, then change the memcal if I don't see anything out of place. I can't get into a ton of good reasons right now on dyno run disappoint (for any car!!) but there are many reasons and I have even seen articles from Dinan and AMG showing the major differences (up to 200 hp differences on 500 hp engines!) as well as a number of reputable car mags telling of this, and the significant differences between dyno types, but there are many reasons so don’t feel too bad. If we do a calculation assuming a TopGun chip’d TGP or TSTE with 240 hp and 275lb-ft at the flywheel and using a 20% drivetrain loss (about common for an auto with this many miles) then 20% taken off of 240 and 275 gives you 192 and 220 respectively, so with 171 and 206 this is close, no 2 engines are the same even new!!! But if you had any problems with the knock circuit during the run then as I have seen on a TGP here with this, you lose 7 degrees of timing off the top, kills power. Next is I see NO air moving fan in front of your car, you have to have this and I grade any dyno shop based on their Front Ram Fan, some use simple carpet dryer styles, others use large window shakers, some use large cooling fans and a few run really big fans around 20,000 cfm, but you need even more than this to simulate what you would be getting running down the ¼ mile or down any street. AND if your engine was hot when it came in, and was idling for a long time with no air moving (cooling fans do not count!) then you were heat soaked pretty good, all these knocking down your dyno results! I see no indication of ambient conditions, or if their dyno machine corrected for these?!?!? I would always run a scan tool just to see how things run, obviously to note for knock, and the maximum boost levels either from the scan tool or a real boost gauge. I could go on and spend an hour with more details, only to have it disappear down this list like the last time I talked all this a year or so ago Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skalor Posted October 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 They did have a fan in front of the car, and it was the carpet drying variety. It was also 63.2º as indicated by the printout I received. I'm going to fix the code 43 this week and as long as all is well, I'm going to run again at the track on friday. Last time I only managed a 15.1 @ 93 with a 2.39 60', so if I manage some better 60' I should be back near what I was running when it was auto. Anyways, I guess I have a lot of work ahead of me, especially talking the wife into a GT2871R!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 one of the other things i noticed is they started the run from what seemed like a much higher then average RPM. When dynoing a car, you often want to start from the lowest possable RPM, on automatics thisis dificult because you do not want it to shift on the dyno (hard on the drivetrain because not enough resistance against the driving wheels) but on a stick shift, especially with turbocharged cars, typically 4th gear, 1200 - 1500 RPM's - this gives you a better range of RPM's, plus it gives you longer spool time on the charger for turbocharged cars - you'd be amazed at the difference on a turbo car from starting at a low RPM, to starting at a high RPM... for an example on the extreme side of this we an RX7 that'd make 250ish rwhp on the dyno when starting at 3k, but if I started it from 1100 rpm's on the dyno, it'd make over 330 (like 342ish) becaue the turbocharger had more time to spool, and there was more exhaust flow for the pre-spool stage of the secondary turbocharger. also, get a better fan in ther - and pick up some dry ice. If they are using a small fan, you'll never get the airflow your intercooler needs to cool the charge, this will also rob from power, use some dry ice to cool the intercooler before you make the run, this will HELP to lower the charge tepms, granted it's not the most failsafe way to assure you're getting your max power, but it will sure help. other then that, lookin' good ... lookin' DAMN good. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 Well, a 15.1 does explain some. A chip’d TGP commonly runs 14s, a slow shifting tranny TGP will still do a 14.5 and I have one here now, nothing special with this one other than all new sensors, ignition and fueling system less fuel pump. This one has 89k miles and I did a tranny fluid and filter change which I would recommend, fluid loses its properties with age, there is a rating that relates to tranny fluid efficiency for transferring power such as in the torque converter where its basically a fluid drive tranny then, and equally as important since this is a fluid drive is a plugged or partially plugged tranny filter, if your pump is struggling to get fluid then you lose power. Old fluid also gets very thin when hot more so than new fluid. Other than that I have seen a few dozen turbos where the turbine wheel is contacting the turbine housing, some of this is wear but some has been combustion by-product build-up at the exducer, which can be taken care of with a small wire wheel or if you are careful, a small fine grit grinding wheel on a drill. I have also seen some turbine wheels with blades coming apart. And if the previous owner did abuse the turbo, some coking and/or scoring of the internal bearings can drag on the turbo making full boost, again nice to hear what your boost levels where though if they were good looking, still could have been achieved at the cost of more back pressure to the engine pushing harder to get the boost set-points in the chip. Even seen some pretty dirty/plugged K&N Air Filters . As for airheadave (just kidding now, just kidding since your name has Colorado in it though I believe you’re local now) lower rpms and higher boost would be true with most turbo setups, but we got a smaller turbo than most setups stock, and full boost comes on a lot lower than most are used to and work from in their efforts to address. Also I wonder if their numbers are based on power made in 3rd gear since this is the only time the tranny gearing is 1:1, and if so the intercooler as you say is heat soaked well by then, and with no good amount of air moving over it!! And a point I have made many times in the past, is to look at the graph where the hp drops.......why rev past that!!!!!!!! i.e. those saying to rev to 6k plus during a shift guess they just hate their trannys . Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 25, 2004 Report Share Posted October 25, 2004 airhead dave.. LOL... actually, I'm not in CO anymore, I'm out in MN now. LOL I'm still a fan of starting as low in the RPM range as possable for so many reason too, like to see where the actual power starts commin' in and how the A/F curve is effected, after all, you don't start your drag race from 40ish MPH at 3500 RPM's do ya? I didn't realize the TGP trani's were closest to 1:1 in 3rd gear, if that's the case, then 3rd gear is where you need to be and not 4th gear (4th in my 'stang is 1:1, but because of my rear-end gears (3.45) I gotta run in 3rd to get a proper reading, so perhaps lower gears would get a better more accurate reading anyhow) I think those are impressive wheel-horsepower numbers none the less. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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