Jeff M Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 A new MUST READ :!: :!: Go out or on-line and order this magazine: HotRod Engines Summer 2004. It will be on news stands until October 12th 2004, hurry NOW!! The articles were contributed to by some of the best engine builders in the business! Some of the info is not new to some of use but there are a lot who will benifit from this. Just to highlight some of the good stuff: 1) There is a section that shows the importance of maintaining a slight vacuum on the crankcase (i.e. just say no to valve cover breathers ). And for those who don’t get this mag (shame on you for missing out!!) they stated the value to the engine’s life while adding hp to the entire power band at the same time with a peak of 19hp to their dyno engine, take that!!! 2) There is another section on Turbo Selection and application, short and sweet and saves on those who don’t want to read a big fat book on this topic! 3) And on page 26 another Pro Engine Shop states a turbo engine does not need a big cam to make big power (and old topic here now). 4) 2 good article on cams and test results on a dyno just showing how much gains there really are, or not. 5) Nice article on a new program (that is already on my PC) called DynoSim, can’t wait to compare to the G-Tech Pro. 6) And last but they went too overboard in details on this one; Torque vs. Horsepower! I have seen much better/shorter articles that state big bore short stroke for hp, and that hp is what wins races/gets you down the quarter mile better than torque which is only good for the 60 foot, “IF†a FWD car had great out of the hole traction. Besides, let the turbo feed the engine to make torque!! Just seen an article on just such a production engine, Acura TL, 3.5L NA motor making 300 hp at a low 6,200 rpms and 260 lb-ft of torque at 5,000 rpms, wish I had time to find the bore and stroke but this is enough fun, back to work! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90TGP Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 The 2004 Acura TL is a 270hp 3.2l V6 SOHC VTEC. The Acura RL has the 3.5l, but with 225hp. Acura TL 3.2 Bore/Stroke: 3.50X3.39 Compression: 11.0 Horsepower: 270@6200 Torque: 238@5000 Redline: 6800 Tranny: Standard Acura RL 3.5l Bore/Stroke: 3.54x3.58 Compressior: 9.6 Horsepower: 225@5200 Torque: 231@2800 Redline: 5900 Tranny: Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe2fast Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 so the breather? so that on turbo cars or all (just to verify, plug them off?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 The 2004 Acura TL is a 270hp 3.2l V6 SOHC VTEC. The Acura RL has the 3.5l, but with 225hp. Acura TL 3.2 Bore/Stroke: 3.50X3.39 Compression: 11.0 Horsepower: 270@6200 Torque: 238@5000 Redline: 6800 Tranny: Standard Acura RL 3.5l Bore/Stroke: 3.54x3.58 Compressior: 9.6 Horsepower: 225@5200 Torque: 231@2800 Redline: 5900 Tranny: Auto RL not TL, correct, but I am referring to the 2005 (or 06, they don't say ) which has these bigger hp numbers (always bigger….then why did the 97 GTP have the same hp till 2004 ). With this 300 hp engine, Honda/Acura has the highest specific output of anyone's NA V6 Production Engine, show offs . And to answer maybefast2, the way to keep a vacuum on the crankcase is to maintain the usage of the crankcase breather tube going into the air filter, lot easier then installing a vacuum pump like in this book. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe2fast Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 what is the benefit of the vacuum in the crankcase? am I losing power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 what is the benefit of the vacuum in the crankcase? am I losing power? Oops, guess I did not answer your question well, aside from getting this great magazine, yes, there is a loss of power if you don't keep a slight vacuum on the crankcase. The engine they tested was a NA engine, we as turbo boys have it worse since we run some pretty high cylinder pressures that will blow by the rings and pressurize the crankcase, which then in turn unloads the back-side of the piston rings, allowing more blow-by to happen, rings are NOT designed to operate with pressure behind them, only in front of them! This is the most amount of replies I can do for a while, too many things need to be completed today, get the book and really enjoy so much good info in one place! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 1, 2004 Report Share Posted October 1, 2004 one of my favoriate things is I've got a secondary vacuum pump (belt driven) in my mustang used to keep the crankcase under serious vacuum (with a "restrictor" breather in the valve cover to allow some air to pass thru the system) I haven't hooked this system up yet, but I will be with the new engine. The theory is with a vacuum in the crankcase the engine will create more power, and the rings will seal better. Also, this would be nice for my brake booster. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
no1kicker Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 SO a valve cover breather is not a good idea? Cause I'm willing to bet most of us TGP guys have one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 a breather in the valve cover is literally only suposed to be there to allow the blowby gasses to get sucked in thru the PVC system without creating too much of a vacuum in the crankcase. (keep the air flowing evenly) --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 a breather in the valve cover is literally only suposed to be there to allow the blowby gasses to get sucked in thru the PVC system without creating too much of a vacuum in the crankcase. (keep the air flowing evenly) --Dave. To take that one step further and before we get another question, PCV valve only works when the engine is under a vacuum, when the engine is under boost the PCV closes, then its that breather "hole" in the valve cover that gives a place to pull out the blow-by and contaminants, but only if that breather hole is plumbed into the air filter or any tube prior to the turbo! My last thought is coming true as this vacuum statement is really starting a stir, and I can understand when people all over the place have breathers on their valve cover holes and see so many others with the same, even in magazine articles, its as common as an air filter upgrade and has been so since the 50s as I recall. Its always shocking when people get a radically different statement made that something that seemed common out there and should have been ok turns out wrong, and for a couple of very good reasons. Another reason is we WANT to get the blow-by contaminants and condensation and such OUT of the crankcase/engine’s oil soon as we can so it does not mix with the oil. NOW, there are oil catch-cans out there everywhere, these are for those who truly insist they do not want oil in their intake stream, you just need to find a place to mount one and remember to drain it when needed. From bargain priced “Summit Racing†versions to Greddy and others on the top end of the cost scale, these catch-cans are out there for just this reason and if someone wants to go this extra step, but bottom line is to get some way to maintain that vacuum in the crankcase, that is why with the chips I sell, I offer and strongly recommended my Air Filter Upgrade kit which come with a Modified Air Filter and a Custom Crankcase Breather Tube that all plugs in with no effort and looks clean! Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveFromColorado Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Hey Jeff, to take that a little further yet, most of the turboford guys will take out the PCV valve (positive crankcase ventalation for those who don't know) and instead put in an all-out metal check-valve from the old air-pump emissions things, which assures that no boost leaks to the crankcase. Then they will run a hose from the valve cover to the front of the turbocharger (after the air meter) with a (home made) catch can in place. I don't know how prone the GM's are to pushing boost into the oil pan through the PCV system, but the turbo fords are pretty good at it, and usually they pushe the dipstick outta it's lil' hole. --Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Interesting 8) , I remember some guys on one of these message boards talking about different spring pressure in PCV Valves, might be that Ford did not do enough research into the custom (well its custom to them when they do it, production to us when they sell it) turbo setup and put in a too weak or too strong a spring pressure. I think McLaren, our "Custom" car gods may have looked into it more, something worth looking into, not something I have seen blow on a dyno run but something to still watch for if anyone else does some dyno runs, good point I believe since I don't leave nothing to chance, and since our PCV is so hidden and a bitch to get to, common their still old and sticking for some owners. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RareGMFan Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Jeff - Do you have a picture of your air intake set-up that you mentioned, and a price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 Jeff - Do you have a picture of your air intake set-up that you mentioned, and a price? I did until the PC crashed, give me a little time as I am heading out the door but I will take another pic later, shoot me an email from my web site so I can reply/attach it. The cost of the Modified Air Filter and Custom Crankcase Breather Tube is $55 (40+15), about the cost of taking your woman out for dinner and a movie, but you will get satisfaction from this for a lot longer and with less hassles . Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted October 2, 2004 Report Share Posted October 2, 2004 The cost of the Modified Air Filter and Custom Crankcase Breather Tube is $55 (40+15), about the cost of taking your woman out for dinner and a movie, but you will get satisfaction from this for a lot longer and with less hassles . Jeff M That just brightened my day!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90TGP Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 There's a bunch of catch cans on ebay for under $50. I'll get one shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 8) I'll be looking for that Issue. I got most of my knowlage from Hot Rod Mag. Gray B. was my favorite.. dam old guy . Well a 3.4 block and a 2.8 crank should be intresting. (panten pending.. )..with a costome welded stock looking intake manafold...you'll see. Total Seal rings?...well ill see if I CAN reconnect the vent tube back. I have routed the pcv to the front valve cover..with a check valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam S. Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 6) And last but they went too overboard in details on this one; Torque vs. Horsepower! I have seen much better/shorter articles that state big bore short stroke for hp, and that hp is what wins races/gets you down the quarter mile better than torque which is only good for the 60 foot, “IF†a FWD car had great out of the hole traction. Besides, let the turbo feed the engine to make torque!! Just seen an article on just such a production engine, Acura TL, 3.5L NA motor making 300 hp at a low 6,200 rpms and 260 lb-ft of torque at 5,000 rpms, wish I had time to find the bore and stroke but this is enough fun, back to work! Jeff M Everything should be talken with a grain of salt, including this magazine. Why is it than that a 600 HP snow plow truck with 800 ft/lbs of torque is not used as a race engine? I'm sure those mack trucks put out around 1000 HP. Yet I have to see one that goes down the 1/4 mile without a jet engine in it. There is no HP vs Torqe, never was. Those two have to be used together and cannot be separated. The article should have pointed us to the best hp and tq setup for an engine. It is possible to do one mod and increase HP but drop torque and vice versa. I would love to know how to manage the least spread in these two areas. Regards Adam S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90TGP Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 It's simple. They weigh a LOT :shock: Back to the subject. Would the vacuum line HAVE to be before the turbo, or can it be hooked up in the intake somewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GutlessSupreme Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 And their gearing is built for low speed torque, real low, close ratios. that's why they max out at like 65mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam S. Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Back to the subject. Would the vacuum line HAVE to be before the turbo, or can it be hooked up in the intake somewhere? Where was your breather hooked up from factory? True the gearing is is for low speed torque but that has to do with the transmission. Why not get a 7.0 liter GMC truck diesel engine stick it into a heavily modified W body (don't talk to me about space fiero guys stick LT1s in those cars) and blast down the 1/4 mile to a wonderfull 17.0 seconds? Something is a miss. I still think managing a close spread between torque and horpower is the key. Adam S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeZ34 Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 Back to the subject. Would the vacuum line HAVE to be before the turbo, or can it be hooked up in the intake somewhere? I'd say before, just as it was from the factory. Think about it.. if you do it anywhere after the compressor, you'd just be pushing/leaking boost in to the crankcase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe2fast Posted October 3, 2004 Report Share Posted October 3, 2004 well I installed my pipe from the intake to the valvecover and took off the breather...If the breather was hurting my power I need all the help I can get (N/A 3.1) should I seal up the seams of the pipe for better vacuum in the crankcase? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboGTU Posted October 4, 2004 Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Damm. I can't find that Issue. :dammit: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff M Posted October 4, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2004 Damm. I can't find that Issue. :dammit: I tried to find if it has become a back issue yet but their web site said: "Back Issues: Link not available at this time. To place your order, please call our toll free number: 1-866-601-5199" If you do call, the info on this mag is: "Hot Rod Engines" "Summer 2004", "Hot Rod Special", "Display until October 12th, 2004". But I did find some of that mag is at their web site Have not had a chance but it might even be more info 8) thanks for making me look Start here to find a list of some of those articles: http://hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/ I would try Amazon or Barns and Snoble too, or eBay here soon, never know. Jeff M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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