PeNZ Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 For anyone who has the white 5 spoke rims, is there any tips on keeping them clean? Mine get dirty pretty fast, and its real annoying to keep cleaning them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sl3196 Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Have you tried waxing them? This usually works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slick Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Have you tried waxing them? This usually works well. That and get some low dust brake pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Have you tried waxing them? This usually works well. That and get some low dust brake pads. however, don't get ceramic i could write a book about why ceramic pads can give me a rim job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Performance Friction Carbon Metallic pads are good....as long as you don't drive it like its on a road course all the time your wheels should stay much cleaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOut Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 however, don't get ceramic i could write a book about why ceramic pads can give me a rim job. Whats wrong with ceramic pads? They stop better, and create less dust. In fact most cars come from the factory with ceramic pads installed. One bad experience with ceramics doesn't mean that they suck. I'm running ceramic pads at all four corners on my car with slotted rotors up front and I've got no problem with dust, no squealing, or any other issues with braking. My wheels stay much cleaner than with semi-metallics and I'd gladly recomend them to anyone who's tired of washing their wheels every other day and doing brake jobs every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midnight rider Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 dust shields work good.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 however, don't get ceramic i could write a book about why ceramic pads can give me a rim job. Whats wrong with ceramic pads? They stop better, and create less dust. In fact most cars come from the factory with ceramic pads installed. One bad experience with ceramics doesn't mean that they suck. I'm running ceramic pads at all four corners on my car with slotted rotors up front and I've got no problem with dust, no squealing, or any other issues with braking. My wheels stay much cleaner than with semi-metallics and I'd gladly recomend them to anyone who's tired of washing their wheels every other day and doing brake jobs every year. ceramic pads stop better? since when? what brand are you using? i used Bosch Ceramic pads, and Bosch premium rotors. hated those damn pads. they were very hard, you could feel them grinding in the brake pedal. it wasn't a warped rotor, because the rotors were brand new, and it wasn't messed up caliper silders, because i use a ton of brake grease on them. three months later, i had grooves cut in both my front rotors, while the pads showed hardly any signs of wear. and no, i don't slam on the brakes every stop. in the same amount of time, my AC Delco pads i'm now using cut very few grooves into the rotors. anyways, i had no brakes for the first few stops until they warmed up, and they squealed very loudly. a few of my friends thought my pads were down to the wear indicators, it was so loud. i didn't notice a big difference in brake dust either, my front wheels were still blackend in the little sawblade cutouts after a couple days much happier with my AC Delco oem pads, they don't grind as much, are very quiet, and i actually have brakes when they're cold. i'd only use ceramic pads if you want them to last a long time. they shake, vibrate, and tear the shit out of rotors, but they'll last a long time, if that's all your concerned with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Lets keep in mind that w-bodys got better brakes in 94 (or was it 95?) and 93CutlassSupreme's car still has the old brakes, so they will suck for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SigEpCutlass Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 it's the 94+ brake upgrade baby...bigger rotors = more stopping power. I'm planning on doing the same setup as soon as I have time again for my cutty with the napa performance rotors and ceramic pads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supreme_style21 Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 I have yet to make the plunge to ceramic brakes. They're so expensive! My workplace just started carrying an inexpensive line of ceramic brakes (around $35/set for my car), so I'm tempted to try them out soon.... but as the saying goes, 'you get what you pay for' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOut Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 ceramic pads stop better? since when? what brand are you using? Good ceramic pads have an equivalent stopping distance to any semi-metallic or organic pad on the market, plus they have the added advantage of disipating heat faster (think aluminum versus steel) so the pads are more resistant to fade. And again, just because you had one bad experience with a particular brand doesn't mean that ceramics as a whole are crap. I'd be willing to bet your calipers are the most likely culprit for your bad experience. Greased slide pins or not the pistons have a tendancy to stick after a hundred thousand miles, and if thats the case the pads would wear fast with grooves as you've noted. Hence you wouldn't notice the decreased amount of brake dust from the pads. And to answer your question I've got the NAPA Ceramix pads at all four corners ($78 front, and $72 rear). NAPA performance slotted rotors up front ($80 ea.), and NAPA United rotors in the rear ($50 ea.), plus remanufactured calipers at all four corners ($30 ea. front, $78 ea. rear). I can easily go 2 weeks (about 1,000 miles of driving) without washing my wheels, where as with semi-metalics I would have to wash every day or two to keep them clean. Also please note that bigger rotors equate more directly to less brake fade than to a decrease in stopping distance. Larger rotors also help decrease brake fade since they disipate heat faster. An increase in pad size and the number of or design of the pistons in a caliper are a more direct influence in actual stopping distance. Sorry about high jacking this thread too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 ceramic pads stop better? since when? what brand are you using? Good ceramic pads have an equivalent stopping distance to any semi-metallic or organic pad on the market, plus they have the added advantage of disipating heat faster (think aluminum versus steel) so the pads are more resistant to fade. If that's true, I would not recommend anyone with an 88-93 run ceramics. Semi-metallics are downright dangerous on an 88-93. I don't think it's so much due to the smaller brakes, but the lack of power assist. 94+ got a much bigger power brake booster. It's not unusual in an 88-93 with semi-metallics to be able to slam on the pedal in a panic stop and still end up rolling into the intersection. Carbon metallics are a MUST on 88-93, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeNZ Posted September 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 Sorry about high jacking this thread too. Not a problem man, since my car has new breaks/rotors, im not going to waste the money on new pads, but I will check out the creamic when the time comes. For now its back to washing rims every few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 2, 2004 Report Share Posted September 2, 2004 ceramic pads stop better? since when? what brand are you using? Good ceramic pads have an equivalent stopping distance to any semi-metallic or organic pad on the market, plus they have the added advantage of disipating heat faster (think aluminum versus steel) so the pads are more resistant to fade. And again, just because you had one bad experience with a particular brand doesn't mean that ceramics as a whole are crap. I'd be willing to bet your calipers are the most likely culprit for your bad experience. Greased slide pins or not the pistons have a tendancy to stick after a hundred thousand miles, and if thats the case the pads would wear fast with grooves as you've noted. Hence you wouldn't notice the decreased amount of brake dust from the pads. And to answer your question I've got the NAPA Ceramix pads at all four corners ($78 front, and $72 rear). NAPA performance slotted rotors up front ($80 ea.), and NAPA United rotors in the rear ($50 ea.), plus remanufactured calipers at all four corners ($30 ea. front, $78 ea. rear). I can easily go 2 weeks (about 1,000 miles of driving) without washing my wheels, where as with semi-metalics I would have to wash every day or two to keep them clean. Also please note that bigger rotors equate more directly to less brake fade than to a decrease in stopping distance. Larger rotors also help decrease brake fade since they disipate heat faster. An increase in pad size and the number of or design of the pistons in a caliper are a more direct influence in actual stopping distance. Sorry about high jacking this thread too. thanks for the info. i guess i'm gonna live with my shitty brakes, i've dumped enough money into them, i'm not dropping another $200 on new calipers so i guess i'm SOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THe_DeTAiL3R Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 One last thing on Ceramics... gotta get good rotors cause if you get cheap ones the ceramic pads will wear them out faster due to the harder material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94CutlassSLCoupe Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Larger rotors and bigger pads increase both the effective brake torque (a bigger rotor is like a bigger lever) and the swept area. Calipers themselves only make a difference when they can provide more force. my '88 Cutlass had dual piston calipers and if i remember right the '94's (I haven't had the wheels off on mine yet, but i did work on my sister's) have a single piston caliper. The brakes are 10x better on the 94 vs the 88 I'm really beginning to wonder if the parts from the 2nd gen W will fit a 1st gen. I know my mom's '97 GP has damn good brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOut Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Your 94' has dual piston calipers in the front as well. Two pistons are better because the force of braking is more evenly distributed over the pads surface as compared to a single piston design which puts pressure on a smaller area of the pad. Oh, and the added braking force of a larger rotor is almost always offset by the additional rotating mass. Yes it acts as a larger lever for adding brake torque, but you've also got a big increase in the moment of inertia since more mass is located farther from the hub. Plug some numbers in and try for your self at this site; http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/icyl.html#icyl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 Your 94' has dual piston calipers in the front as well. Two pistons are better because the force of braking is more evenly distributed over the pads surface as compared to a single piston design which puts pressure on a smaller area of the pad. Oh, and the added braking force of a larger rotor is almost always offset by the additional rotating mass. Yes it acts as a larger lever for adding brake torque, but you've also got a big increase in the moment of inertia since more mass is located farther from the hub. Plug some numbers in and try for your self at this site; http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/icyl.html#icyl sounds like that would apply for larger wheels wonder if larger wheels increase stopping distance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 I'm really beginning to wonder if the parts from the 2nd gen W will fit a 1st gen. I know my mom's '97 GP has damn good brakes Nothing from a 2nd gen W will fit a 1st gen except maybe the vacuum booster. wonder if larger wheels increase stopping distance Larger wheels are heavier, and heavier wheels will increase stopping distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 thought something like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 it's not that semi metallics suck on 88-93, the CHEAP semi-metallics suck. Ive been thru it, the cheap ones overheat even at moderate stops. I bought Raybestos premium semi-metallics for my '90. They worked so good at all 4 corners that I swapped pads and rotors onto my '89 when I got it, and they were still on it when I brought it to the scrap yard to be demolished (fronts had over half its pad life left with a combined 30,000 miles between the '90 and '89) - Never buy anything BOSCH. I bought prostop ceramics for my dads '02 GP(installing sunday) because at my job, we install them on hundreds of cars and 0% of those cars ever came back for complaints, versus about half comeback rate for the premium semi-metallics, and 100% comeback for the cheapo semi-metallics. I'm including Fords and import cars too, which, especially Nissan and Honda, are VERY VERY picky and any crap pad causes undesireable noise, fast wear, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
93CutlassSupreme Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 - Never buy anything BOSCH. i learned that the hard way how are raybestos quiet stops? heard a lot of good things about them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GnatGoSplat Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 it's not that semi metallics suck on 88-93, the CHEAP semi-metallics suck. Ive been thru it, the cheap ones overheat even at moderate stops. I bought Raybestos premium semi-metallics for my '90. They worked so good at all 4 corners that I swapped pads and rotors onto my '89 when I got it, and they were still on it when I brought it to the scrap yard to be demolished (fronts had over half its pad life left with a combined 30,000 miles between the '90 and '89) Strange, Raybestos was what I used to use on my 89 that I hated so much. They may not have been "premium", maybe that's the difference? It was also 94-97 when I used them. They've probably improved the formula since then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian P Posted September 3, 2004 Report Share Posted September 3, 2004 yeah Raybestos makes the cheaper semi-metallics also, which I had a problem with. The premiums are a litte pricey like $45 for our cars. Raybestos quiet stops are supposed to be good, yes, but I've never installed them in my car or any customer's car (too expensive for most people). Side by side comparison, the Quiet stops have the same color and feel pad material / compound as the Prostop ceramics, except the QS has more of those copper flakes mixed in. What the difference is, I have no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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