map sensor, ecm, fuel injectors, or what the hell?

[93 Grand Prix]

I need everyone to put on their thinking caps. I am sure everyone is aware of the problems that i have been having with my car. I have heard many things that could cause these. Here is a list of problems wrong with my engine:

 

1. engine hard to start when cold

2. engine lopes while idling

3. engine idles erratically

4. engine misses at idle

5. excessive fuel consumption

6. cooling fns won't come on

7. bad fuel odor

8. no power in 4th gear

 

If i missed anything, I will post it later. Please everyone give there 2 cents, even if you don't know what you are talking about! I am that desperate. Help me please! Here are a few links that I thought would help:(Just copy and paste)

 

1. http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/04/f7/cf/0900823d8004f7cf.jsp

 

2. http://www2.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/04/f6/8d/0900823d8004f68d.jsp

 

3. http://www.ecmtogo.com/ECMTips2.htm

[eclipse5302]

Where is the "None of the above" check box?

 

It's easy to get sidetracked in to thinking it's something by reading what the service manual or other tech article says. Like if you have these symptoms, it's a bad MAP sensor. But you've got to step back sometimes and try to understand whats going on in the engine. Maybe it isn't one thing, maybe it's multiple things. Or maybe it's something completely different than what you think.

 

For example...have you checked the temp sensor for the ECM yet (right next to / below the thermostat) It has a TON to do with how the engine runs. It also controls the cooling fans. If in doubt, replace it! It's like $8 at Autozone.

 

How about vac leaks / leaking intake manifold gaskets? Spray some brake cleaner around the intake manifold near the gaskets when the engine is cold. The engine will speed up or bog down when you've found a bad area of the gasket. Don't spray too much though, you will have a fire on your hands. Keep a hose or a fire extinguisher on hand.

 

Have you hooked up a scan tool yet? Those numbers will tell a lot.

 

Did you check your spark quality? This can be done with any timing light. Simply clamp it on to a plug wire, and look at the pattern that it blinks. It should be smooth and consistant at idle. You will need to check every wire, and be careful...sometimes wires don't insulate like they should. If there is inconsistent spark pattern (like it blinks short then fast, or has large gaps where there is no blinking)...thats either going to be plug wires or the coils. You can switch coils or plug wires around to see if the problem follows the wire or coil.

 

Let us know what happens.

 

Jason

[MotorCityMike]

I have to agree that those symptoms sound like a bad coolant temp sensor.

 

Get it scanned at AutoZone and see what comes up. You will need to scan it in real time to read the sensor values, because a bad CTS won't always throw a trouble code. It will just read like 8* when it should be at 180* like the coolant temp is.

 

:yak:

[93 Grand Prix]

I guess everyone is not aware of all my ongoing problems, and how much I have already spent on this engine. I have already replaced multiple things on this car.

1. Coils

2. Coil module

3. Spark Plugs

4. Wires

5. Coolant temp. Sensor

6. relays

7. water pump

8. oxygen sensor

9. cleaned throttle body intake

10. lots of time and money

Now tell mewhat's wrong. I am working on some injectors, but they are really expensive, so i wanted to know before I bought my second set?

[MotorCityMike]

May I suggest that you become a careless smoker and drop a lit cigarette between the seat and console out of arms reach? Problem solved :devil: :verymad:

 

[eclipse5302]

Scan it.

 

You could replace parts all day long, and not find the problem. Find someone with a scan tool, and have them look at the values. They can tell if the block learn / integrator numbers are high because of a plugged injector and the ECM is trying to cram fuel in the engine. Or if the O2 sensor is reading rich/lean. Or if you've got a bad wire connecting one of those sensors to the ECM, and the sensor is doing nothing. Even if you have to pay for someone to scan the car, it will be worth it.

 

And don't forget...even new parts can be broken.

 

Jason

[93 Grand Prix]

May I suggest that you become a careless smoker and drop a lit cigarette between the seat and console out of arms reach? Problem solved :devil: :verymad:

 

 

Kiss my cigarette! I have put too much money in it to turn back now!